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Featured 2 people in heaven question

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Theokayman1, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    They will have no memory of each other. All memory of this life will be forgotten.
    Isaiah 65:
    17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
    18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.


    Revelation 21:
    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
     
  2. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    If you have no memory of this life......it is just like annihilation...... so for what reason would you try and make it to heaven, is the person making it there, will not be you?
     
  3. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Are you only your memories? If a man get amnesia does he cease to be? Or are we each a living soul that is not just the sum of our memories?

    Each of us has a specific heart and spirit, our own will and mind. It is because of these things that we chose to follow Christ in the first place. That is what will carry over to the other life.

    That is who we are.
     
  4. NW82

    NW82 Quote scripture or your argument is invalid.

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    Answer: Isaiah 65:17
     
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  5. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    yes , However, if we do not discover who we are, here......then we do remain our thoughts and memories........Which I do agree, does perish..

    I think you may be speaking above our current understanding.......we must comprehend the natural first or the spiritual will remain foolishness....
     
  6. ADisciple

    ADisciple Always Learning Supporter

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    Chris never wanting to see Freddy EVER again is a form of corruption (of the mind). I know Paul said "this corruption (the body) puts on incorruption ... but I think that also applies to the mind/heart of the individual. What I'm getting at, is at the gathering unto our Lord in the air, we (ie, Chris and Freddy) will have new bodies/minds/hearts. There is no longer be any of the "never want to see you again" stuff from that point on. As I understand it, at that point, any remaining bad thoughts, sins, etc will be washed away for there is no room for that in our new bodies/minds/hearts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  7. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Interesting.

    However, if we retain no memory of our life here, that would mean that we will have no memory of what/who we were, and why Jesus had to come and die on the Cross to save us.

    For that matter, why does the Bible indicate that it is imperative that "know" God then (and that He knows us) .. Matthew 7:22-23; John 17:3? In fact, what do you believe the purpose this life is if we will have no memory of it in the age to come?

    Would that not also mean that those who are cast into Hell/the Lake of Fire by God would have to continuously wonder why they had been consigned to such a fate by Him?

    Thanks!

    --David
     
  8. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    We who are Christ's are called to the spiritual and by the Spirit of God it is made know to us what the hope of Christ's calling is. What our reward in heaven is, is made known to us by the wisdom and knowledge of the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

    Ephesians 1:17-18
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
    18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,


    1 Cor 2:13-16
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

    Colossians 1:
    9For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
     
  9. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If Chris still harbors animosity towards Freddy, do you think he'll be in heaven?
     
  10. Valetic

    Valetic Addicted to CF Supporter

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    So my best friend is a meth head, and I thought I could trust him alone with my wife for a couple hours until her best friend arrived at our home. Well, they drove out to the grocery store after I left to pick up some stuff to cook with for the 3 of them. While they were there, he snuck off and stole and consumed a ton of cough medicine to get totally drugged up. They got home and he started acting weird to the point he couldn't hide it any more. So when her friend got there they took him to the hospital signed him in instead of reporting him to the police.

    So he disrespected me by going behind mine and my wife's back to get messed up while staying with us, put my wife in danger of legal dispute because she brought him to the grocery store and was basically responsible for him, never apologized to her, and still hasn't changed.

    Do I forgive him? Sure, but that doesn't mean that he is RECONCILED to us or that we trust him anymore, to be all buddy buddy again..

    And that's just my point - there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. If someone steals from your home and you forgive them, you don't have to let them back in and put yourself in danger any more.
     
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  11. Duke fan

    Duke fan Member

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    1 John 1:9 days “If we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us or sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
     
  12. Theokayman1

    Theokayman1 New Member

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    I completely and totally agree with you. There are some people who do not deserve to be in our lives.

    But that's not what we are talking about. What is you two see each other in heaven and he is truly repentant. What will you do?
     
  13. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that they would not even notice where they are.......and you would need to have memory of normality or heaven to recognize abnormality.. They way walk around feeling that they are living the good life.....until the Word is preached and the captives are set free........
     
  14. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    It is in our heart and mind that we will know Christ, just as it is now. Who we are in this life will not matter there, in that what wrong we did, what job we worked at, Etc. Our memories will not matter their but would only be a hindrance and a constant source of sorrow to remember those who did not choose the righteous path. Our soul, our spirit, who we are is not memories and this tent of flesh. We will know Christ in heaven similar to how we knew him here it will be put into our hearts by his calling. Did we know him before we were called? Would we accept him in this life and deny him in the next? Our spirit and our names written in the book of life will bear witness to who we are in Spirit and in will.

    Christ had to come and die to save us, if he did not we were all dead under the law. Without the grace of God and the Promise of Faith no flesh would be justified under the sight of the law(except by faith).

    On the day of Judgement the New heavens and the New earth has not yet been created(Revelation 20:9-15), all men stand before the Lord and are judged worthy or unworthy out of Books opened up(Daniel 12:1; Revelation 20:12-15) which hold the account of everything we have done here on earth(Matt 12:36; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 12:16; Revelation 20:12-13). Those that are unrighteous are sent to everlasting contempt(Daniel 12:2; Mark 9:44-48; Isaiah 66:24; Revelation 14:9-11).
    (Luke 13:26-28, Matt 13:49-50) It's by their own words that they are condemned, their own deeds. They remember the evil that they had rejoiced in while on the earth, and that it was by their own hand that their fate was sealed, that is why they weep and Gnash their teeth(outside of the eternal torment by everlasting fire that is). The Lord is just that he would not execute Judgment upon someone(especially a judgment such as this) who did not know their crime.

    We are here to choose our path. We have two choices God's somewhat strict but ultimately joyous way of life, or Satan's no rules do whatever you want way of life. We are created as servants of the Lord but through Christ we are made heirs with him. We were given free will because blind obedience is not love. We are given a Choice to show men and angels that even though we had to choice to disobey God and follow Satan we chose the righteous path. Just as the Apostles were so to are we a spectacle unto angels and men(1 Cor 4:9). We prove ourselves in this life we are rewarded by our deeds in the next, that's what is written.

    The righteous remember nothing of this world, the wicked remember everything.
     
  15. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    They will walk around feeling that they are "living the good life" .. in Hell? Considering the descriptions of it .. cf Daniel 12:2; Mathew 13:41-42, Luke 13; 27-28, 16:23-26, that seems a little bit hard to believe, doesn't it?
     
  16. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    While in darkness.....your eyes adjust to the darkness.....and it become unnoticeable.......until the light comes in.......which, at first in unbearable and painful....but after a while, you can see and function much better than you could ever dream of, while you were in the dark: A discovery made possible only after coming into the light and having all darkness washed away..........
     
  17. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think it is wise to test if and how we trust someone we forgive. Jesus prayed forgiveness to the ones who were hating and torturing and murdering Jesus who is God's own Son. I doubt that Jesus trusted them.

    So, I would say Chris needs to prayerfully test and evaluate how God wants him to relate with Freddy. It looks suspect, to me; he seems to not have really forgiven Freddy.

    And in case Chris keeps on investing in such not real forgiveness, he could reap the corruption of that > Galatians 6:7-8.

    If they both get to Heaven, I would say it will be because Chris changed to love Freddy and have hope for him > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). But, still, Chris would need to prayerfully test how God wanted him to relate with Freddy.

    . . . not if they both have been corrected by God to know how to love . . .

    And even for this life, it is not for Chris to decide, but he needs to obey God.

    I don't think you can have a committed unloving person who can go to Heaven.

    "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

    But you can have a Christian . . . who is saved, born-again . . . who now is not loving the way Jesus wants. But we pray for the person, and Hebrews 12:4-11 guarantees how God corrects His children. And we have how God's love . . . all-loving . . . "has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit" (in Romans 5:5). This love in our hearts makes us more and more all-loving.

    So, I do not think a person can stay committed to unforgiveness and selfish ways of loving and go to Heaven. We can fail and sin, but on the whole we are growing in Jesus.

    We will be like Jesus, not like how we are now > Romans 8:29.

    So, like I offer and mean > if we have first trusted in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12), we have begun in how Jesus will take care of us. We will become more and more His way.

    I think I understand what you mean here :) And I think Hebrews 12:4-11 guarantees how our Heavenly Father now in this life already has begun to succeed in changing us away from the corruption of unforgiveness and selfish and limited loving.

    "But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

    Both will be in the image of Jesus; so of course they can share. And in the process of becoming this way, Chris in this life has been corrected, and so has Freddy. And so they reap what they have sown while sowing in God's love > Galatians 6:7-8.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  18. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    That's a question for its own topic worth discussing.

    However, the parable of Lazarus and the rich man suggests something about that.
     
  19. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Will these kind of things not seem (at the very least) bizarre and a complete mystery to us then?

    Revelation 5
    11 I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands,
    12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”
    13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”
    14 And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

    Why would we believe and say such things about the Lamb if we retain no memory of who we are and what He did for us in the age to come?

    Thanks!

    --David
     
  20. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    I think the thing to referencel is this:

    Isaiah 65:17 For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

    It won't even be a thing to deal with.
     
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