2 or 3 witnesses misapplication

Daniel Marsh

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Deuteronomy 17:6
On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

The 2 or 3 witnesses thing is taken out of context and is misapplied too often by too many people online. To my knowledge the misapplication was by Bill Gothard.

What other misapplications of scripture have you seen online?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Deuteronomy 17:6
On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

The 2 or 3 witnesses thing is taken out of context and is misapplied too often by too many people online. To my knowledge the misapplication was by Bill Gothard.

What other misapplications of scripture have you seen online?
Agreed.

My favorite is
2 Timothy 2:12-13
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

This verse always come up when discussing eternal security. It's used to show that we cannot lose it because of verse 13....
Not realizing, of course, that it conflicts with verse 12.

The problem is in the meaning of: "If we are FAITHLESS, He remains FAITHFUL, for He cannot deny HIMSELF.

God is remaining faithful to HIMSELF not the person who thinks they're saved no matter what.
 
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Mathetes66

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The burden of proof concerning the two or three witness verses taken out of context is on you. You didn't show it to be misapplied in the verse you quoted nor in other verses when used in Scripture.

You made a comment about Bill Gothard misquoting it but you didn't show how or where he misquoted it. And you are only one witness to your accusation concerning Mr. Gothard. You yourself misapplied it, needing 2 or 3 witnesses to verify this.

(there are multitudes of the same phrase used THROUGHOUT the Bible & it applies in the same way in each of the cases.

Jesus even used it with the woman caught in adultery. There were more than 2 or 3 witnesses that brought the woman to Jesus. When Jesus challenged them that the first one without sin should cast the first stone, they all left, starting with the OLDEST person. Soon no witnesses were left to condemn her.

John 8:9-11 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

In church discipline according to Jesus' own teaching:

Matt 18:15,16 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'

Deut 19:15 A lone witness is not sufficient to establish any wrongdoing or sin against a man, regardless of what offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

John 8:17,18 Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me."

2 Cor 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Numbers 35:30 "If anyone kills a person, the murderer is to be put to death based on the word of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death based on the testimony of one witness.

I Tim 5:17 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder, except on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

I John 5:7,8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected the Law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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The burden of proof concerning the two or three witness verses taken out of context is on you. You didn't show it to be misapplied in the verse you quoted nor in other verses when used in Scripture.

You made a comment about Bill Gothard misquoting it but you didn't show how or where he misquoted it. And you are only one witness to your accusation concerning Mr. Gothard. You yourself misapplied it, needing 2 or 3 witnesses to verify this.

(there are multitudes of the same phrase used THROUGHOUT the Bible & it applies in the same way in each of the cases.

Jesus even used it with the woman caught in adultery. There were more than 2 or 3 witnesses that brought the woman to Jesus. When Jesus challenged them that the first one without sin should cast the first stone, they all left, starting with the OLDEST person. Soon no witnesses were left to condemn her.

John 8:9-11 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

In church discipline according to Jesus' own teaching:

Matt 18:15,16 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'

Deut 19:15 A lone witness is not sufficient to establish any wrongdoing or sin against a man, regardless of what offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

John 8:17,18 Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me."

2 Cor 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Numbers 35:30 "If anyone kills a person, the murderer is to be put to death based on the word of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death based on the testimony of one witness.

I Tim 5:17 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder, except on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

I John 5:7,8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected the Law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

how do you confront someone who is on film? does not answer his mail, and so on. Besides he does not attend my Church.

Thanks for showing how some misapply Matthew 18:15-18

He misapplied the text in his seminar films and does not release them to the public. I am not going to waste my time quoting him and get into a copyright lawsuit.

Bill Gothard copy right lawsuit - Google Search
 
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Mathetes66

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Thanks for responding back Daniel! Glad some of what I shared helped. Let us continue to rightly divide/discern the word of truth & speak it in love as we seek to be His ambassadors in the world, letting His light shine.

Phil 2:12-16 Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear & trembling. For it is God who works in you, both to will & to work for his good pleasure.Do everything without complaining and without divisional arguing, so that you may be blameless & innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked & twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, as you hold forth the word of life, in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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1 Timothy 5:19
Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

Allegations of Sexual Misconduct:
• Exploited Innocence: Sexual Harassment at HQ (Lizzie’s Story). April 20, 2012.

• Another Witness: Sexual Harassment at HQ (Annette’s Story). May 9, 2012.

• Third Witness: Sexual Harassment at Headquarters (Grace’s Story). April 8, 2013.

• Sacred Grooming: A Secretary’s Account of Life With Bill Gothard (Meg’s Story). January 20, 2014.

• Charlotte’s Story & Two Witnesses for Charlotte. February 5, 2014

• Ruth’s Story. February 12, 2014.

• Rachel’s Story. February 17, 2014.

• Marcus’s Story: Touching the Invisible Electric Fence. February 17, 2014.

• Gothard’s Process: Invite, Idealize, Isolate, Transgress, Rewrite. February 18, 2014.

• Chronology of Ruth, Annette, Charlotte, Meg, Rachel, Lizzie, and Grace. February 18, 2014.

• Defrauding: What does it mean? February 27, 2014.

The Scandal of 1980:
• Introduction: the Sleeping Giant. February 12, 2014.

• The GOTHARD Files: The Early Years, 1965–79. February 11, 2014.

• The GOTHARD Files: The Scandal, 1980. February 20, 2014.

• The GOTHARD Files: Scandal Chronology, 1971–1981. February 21, 2014.

• The GOTHARD Files: The Basic Problem. February 24, 2014

• The GOTHARD Files: 1983 Transcript. February 26, 2014.

• The GOTHARD Files: Failure to Reconcile, 1981–ATI, part I. March 7, 2014.

• The GOTHARD Files: Failure to Reconcile, 1981–ATI, part II. March 7, 2014.

Abuse of Scripture and Spiritual Authority:
• Silencing the Lambs: Discrediting the Truth. February 15, 2014

• Silencing the Lambs: Taking Up Offenses. February 22, 2014.

• Silencing the Lambs: Twisting Matthew 18. March 3, 2014.

The GOTHARD Files: A Case for Disqualification
 
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