1Timothy 2:4 by CH Spurgeon

[mlqurgw]

Yes, the word used is 'pantos'. The verse should read "9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone." (or for all).

Yep all is fine. The question is all of who? The word all rarely intends all without exception if ever. It needs a qualifier.

 

[DD2008]

Simple but unScriptural. If God offers salvation to everyone and it is up to them to accept it then salvation depends on man's acceptance not on the person and work of Christ. If that is true we save ourselves. But it isn't true. Christ Jesus came into the world to accomplish the will of God in the salvation of chosen sinners. Salvation is in its entirety the work of Christ alone. We don't make His work effectual by our faith but our faith is because of His effectual work. We cannot add anything to Christ. If we try to add anything to Him it is saying that He isn't enough.

We aren't adding anything to his work. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When we hear the word we either believe it or we don't when we believe it we are saved.

The word man isn't in the original. It is italics because it was added by the translators.

Hebrews 2:9 NASB
9But we do see Him who was (A)made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, (B)because of the suffering of death (C)crowned with glory and honor, so that (D)by the grace of God He might (E)taste death (F)for everyone.

The NASB which is the most accurate of all modern versions says it's in there.

 

[Hentenza]

Not at all. To tell folks that Christ died for sinners isn't at all the same as telling them that Christ died for all sinners. Though all are sinners they don't all know that they are sinners. Only those who have been given to know that they are sin will ever trust Christ. While I always expect sinners to trust Christ, because there is an elect people for whom Christ died, I only expect those to whom the Spirit makes known that they are sinners to believe. Knowing that you sin and knowing that you are nothing but sin are not the same. A person who knows they sin only needs to be reformed. A person who is sin needs to be saved.

But how is it that "you" expect when is God that delivers? How do you tell your run of the mill sinner that asks the question that Christ only died for the elect?

 

[DD2008]

Yep all is fine. The question is all of who? The word all rarely intends all without exception if ever. It needs a qualifier.

It's all of the human beings apparently. Since the word everyone is used numerous times by multiple authors...

If it was all of a group then that would have been clearly stated. The Holy Spirit isn't the author of confusion.

 

[mlqurgw]

But how is it that "you" expect when is God that delivers? How do you tell your run of the mill sinner that asks the question that Christ only died for the elect?

Man do I feel like I am coming very close to debating rather than explaining. But I will continue until it becomes obvious that it has become a debate.

I thought I explained that when I said that I know that God has an elect people who will hear and believe. I tell the run of the mill sinner that Christ died and accomplished salvation for an elect people who deserve nothing but His wrath. I tell them that if they know what sin is and that they are sin not just people who sin then they may be those for whom Christ died. No man knows what sin truly is until God reveals it to him. No man knows who Christ really is until God reveals it to him.

 

[mlqurgw]

We aren't adding anything to his work. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When we hear the word we either believe it or we don't when we believe it we are saved.

So how is it that we hear it? I have known many who hear the Gospel every Sunday, twice, but never hear it.

Hebrews 2:9 NASB
9But we do see Him who was (A)made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, (B)because of the suffering of death (C)crowned with glory and honor, so that (D)by the grace of God He might (E)taste death (F)for everyone.

The NASB which is the most accurate of all modern versions says it's in there.

Most accurate doesn't mean perfectly accurate. The Greek is as much a matter of interpretation as the English.

 

[mlqurgw]

It's all of the human beings apparently. Since the word everyone is used numerous times by multiple authors...

If it was all of a group then that would have been clearly stated. The Holy Spirit isn't the author of confusion.

It is clearly stated throughout the whole of Scripture. God chose Abram and left others in Ur. God chose Jacob and left Esau to himself. God chose Noah and destroyed the whole world. God chose Israel and left all others in the darkness. And on and on I could go. No one has yet to answer what I said about the day of atonement. Who was it for?

 

[RobertZ]

[FONT=times new roman, times new roman, times][FONT=arial, arial, helvetica]HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH? Ephesians 1:13[/FONT]

</B>

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation."
Ephesians 1:13​

There are several things in this sentence which are of tremendous importance. Be sure you carefully observe the language of Holy Scripture.
"In Whom"
Notice here that the Object of all true, saving faith is a "whom", not a what! "In whom ye also trusted." We are often wrongfully accused of saying sinners must attain a certain degree of theological knowledge before they can be saved. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our detractors are either incapable of understanding plain English or they are liars. We do not suggest that a person must know the right doctrine, but that he must trust the right Savior!
We do insist, according to the Word of God, that all who know and trust the Christ of God are taught of God, walk in truth, and cannot be deceived by the damning heresies of Arminian, freewill, works religion (John 6:45; 10:5; 1 Cor. 2:15-16; 1 John 2:20, 27). The question is not "How much must a person know to be saved?" The question is "Who must a person trust to be saved?" Those who trust a false Christ are not saved. They may be very moral, but they are not godly. They may appear very pious, but they are not spiritual. You are saved only if you trust him whom the Father trusted in eternity.
"The Word Of Truth"
How is it that we came to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul tells us that faith was granted to us as the gift of God "After that ye heard the word of truth." The gospel of the grace of God is called the Word of truth, more correctly, the Word of THE TRUTH. It is called that for many reasons. It came from the God of Truth. It speaks of Christ who is the Truth. It is revealed by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, who leads us into all truth. It is this Word of the truth by which the Spirit of God sets sinners free. God does not save his people apart from, or without the Word of the Truth (Rom.10:17; Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23). And he certainly does not save them by hearing and believing the lies of freewill, works religion. If you think you or anyone else was saved before you came to trust the Christ of God through the hearing of the Word of the truth, according to this text and the whole testimony of Holy Scripture, you are dead wrong.
"The Gospel Of Your Salvation"
The Word of the truth which we heard, not by word only but by the power of God the Holy Spirit, is called "THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION". Here we are told that the Holy Spirit, when he regenerates and calls sinners from death to life and gives them faith in Christ, does so by declaring to them, declaring in their hearts what Christ has done for them. We came to know the Lord when God the Holy Spirit brought the light of the gospel into our souls (2 Tim. 1:9-10). The Word of Truth, the Word of God is not preached unless and until the gospel of salvation accomplished in and by the Lord Jesus Christ is preached (1 Pet. 1:23-25). Thus, we are once more instructed here in the fact that the preaching of the gospel is God&#8217;s ordained means of grace. AMEN.
[/FONT][FONT=times new roman, times new roman, times][/FONT][FONT=times new roman, times new roman, times][FONT=times new roman, times new roman, times]
Don Fortner[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[RobertZ]

No one has yet to answer what I said about the day of atonement. Who was it for?

Mark 10:45
​

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.​

 

[mlqurgw]

[FONT=times new roman, times new roman, times][FONT=arial, arial, helvetica]HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH? Ephesians 1:13[/FONT]


</B>

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation."

Ephesians 1:13​

There are several things in this sentence which are of tremendous importance. Be sure you carefully observe the language of Holy Scripture.
"In Whom"
Notice here that the Object of all true, saving faith is a "whom", not a what! "In whom ye also trusted." We are often wrongfully accused of saying sinners must attain a certain degree of theological knowledge before they can be saved. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our detractors are either incapable of understanding plain English or they are liars. We do not suggest that a person must know the right doctrine, but that he must trust the right Savior!
We do insist, according to the Word of God, that all who know and trust the Christ of God are taught of God, walk in truth, and cannot be deceived by the damning heresies of Arminian, freewill, works religion (John 6:45; 10:5; 1 Cor. 2:15-16; 1 John 2:20, 27). The question is not "How much must a person know to be saved?" The question is "Who must a person trust to be saved?" Those who trust a false Christ are not saved. They may be very moral, but they are not godly. They may appear very pious, but they are not spiritual. You are saved only if you trust him whom the Father trusted in eternity.
"The Word Of Truth"
How is it that we came to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul tells us that faith was granted to us as the gift of God "After that ye heard the word of truth." The gospel of the grace of God is called the Word of truth, more correctly, the Word of THE TRUTH. It is called that for many reasons. It came from the God of Truth. It speaks of Christ who is the Truth. It is revealed by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, who leads us into all truth. It is this Word of the truth by which the Spirit of God sets sinners free. God does not save his people apart from, or without the Word of the Truth (Rom.10:17; Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23). And he certainly does not save them by hearing and believing the lies of freewill, works religion. If you think you or anyone else was saved before you came to trust the Christ of God through the hearing of the Word of the truth, according to this text and the whole testimony of Holy Scripture, you are dead wrong.
"The Gospel Of Your Salvation"
The Word of the truth which we heard, not by word only but by the power of God the Holy Spirit, is called "THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION". Here we are told that the Holy Spirit, when he regenerates and calls sinners from death to life and gives them faith in Christ, does so by declaring to them, declaring in their hearts what Christ has done for them. We came to know the Lord when God the Holy Spirit brought the light of the gospel into our souls (2 Tim. 1:9-10). The Word of Truth, the Word of God is not preached unless and until the gospel of salvation accomplished in and by the Lord Jesus Christ is preached (1 Pet. 1:23-25). Thus, we are once more instructed here in the fact that the preaching of the gospel is God’s ordained means of grace. AMEN.
[/FONT][FONT=times new roman, times new roman, times]
[FONT=times new roman, times new roman, times]Don Fortner[/FONT]
[/FONT]

How did you find Don?

 

[RobertZ]

The Son of Man Came to Give His Life a Ransom for Many :: Desiring God Christian Resource Library

Are You in "the Many"?
Now the last question is: who are the many? Are you in the many? Were you ransomed when Christ died? Are you still under the guilt and power of sin when you might be free? Are you moving toward eternal life or eternal punishment? Who are the many that were ransomed by the Son of Man when he gave his life?
Turn with me to John 15:13. Here Jesus answers the question about whom he ransomed. He says, "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends." He says that he will lay down his life for his friends. He will ransom his friends. So here is the question for us this Christmas: Are you a friend of Jesus? If you are, you were ransomed. If you aren't, you can become one this morning. What does it mean to be a friend of Jesus?
The next verse explains (John 15:14): "You are My friends, if you do what I command you." This is not how you become a friend. This is the way you act when you are a friend. This is not the way you become his friend. It is the evidence that you are ransomed. The ransom is what frees you and empowers you to do what Jesus commands you to do. First you know yourself ransomed, then you enjoy the freedom and power and fruit of the ransom.
So we have come back to where we started. Jesus did not come to be served but to serve. You can't serve your way into the friendship of Jesus. If you want to earn wages from Jesus, you are not his friend. Right in John 15:14-16 he makes clear that you can't be a slave and a friend at the same time:

You are my friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you.
​

Jesus did not come in search of slave labor. He does not need it. He came in search of those who would become his friends. That is, he came in search of those who would trust him to serve them. TRUST HIM TO SERVE THEM! For these he laid down his life. For these he gave his life as a ransom. These are the many in Mark 10:45. Everyone who trusts the servant Christ as Satisfier, Supplier, Guide, Forgiver.
What creates the friendship is that Jesus chooses you and opens his heart to you and reveals the glory of the Father. (John 15:15: "All things that I heard from my Father I made known to you.") In fact, this is the essence of becoming a friend of Jesus: you hear in the words of Jesus and you see in the work of Jesus the revelation of God the Father. That revelation changes you. It causes you to be born again. It wakens in you faith that Jesus is the final revelation of God, and that God loves you in Christ, and that he will serve you for all eternity. This is what it means to become the friend of Jesus: seeing in him the all-satisfying glory of God, and trusting him to be your servant-guide and your servant-helper, forever.
© Desiring God

 

[RobertZ]

How did you find Don?

I have been listening to some of his sermons and find that man to be very very interesting.

 

[Hentenza]

Man do I feel like I am coming very close to debating rather than explaining. But I will continue until it becomes obvious that it has become a debate.

That's fine brother. I'm done.

I thought I explained that when I said that I know that God has an elect people who will hear and believe. I tell the run of the mill sinner that Christ died and accomplished salvation for an elect people who deserve nothing but His wrath. I tell them that if they know what sin is and that they are sin not just people who sin then they may be those for whom Christ died. No man knows what sin truly is until God reveals it to him. No man knows who Christ really is until God reveals it to him.

As do I, except that I leave the 'elect' part out since I don't know if I am talking to an elect or not. I let God be the redeemer.

 

[mlqurgw]

I have been listening to some of his sermons and find that man to be very very interesting.

Did you know that he is my pastor and good friend?

 

[mlqurgw]

That's fine brother. I'm done.



As do I, except that I leave the 'elect' part out since I don't know if I am talking to an elect or not. I let God be the redeemer.

Why leave the elect part out? It is Scriptural. Telling sinners of the election of God, when done in the Scriptural sense, is the most humbling doctrine that I can think of. Rather than putting salvation in man's hands, which the whole religious world does to the deception of souls, I preach a sovereign Christ who saves. The jesus that most folks think of is not the Jesus of the Bible. God in Christ presses His claims on men as a sovereign God not as a wimp who wishes for what he can't have and hopes for what he cannot bring to pass. No man will bow to God until he understands that God is God.

 

[Hentenza]

Why leave the elect part out? It is Scriptural.

I believe that Christ died for all not just for some. I believe in election but I can only explain it in anthropomorphisms. There is a mystery in how God elects and how he does not deny any. In our finite understanding we can't fully reconcile both.

 

[mlqurgw]

I believe that Christ died for all not just for some. I believe in election but I can only explain it in anthropomorphisms. There is a mystery in how God elects and how he does not deny any. In our finite understanding we can't fully reconcile both.

But is that preaching the whole council of God? Election and the sovereignty of God isn't higher learning it is the foundation on which the Gospel of Christ is laid. No man truly knows what he is in reality until he finds out who God is in reality.

 

[RobertZ]

Did you know that he is my pastor and good friend?

Wow thats something else because just thinking that you would probably enjoy listening to this Guy. lol.


Also I was trying to find a way to contact him but was never able to find anything.

 

[Hentenza]

Telling sinners of the election of God, when done in the Scriptural sense, is the most humbling doctrine that I can think of. Rather than putting salvation in man's hands, which the whole religious world does to the deception of souls, I preach a sovereign Christ who saves. The jesus that most folks think of is not the Jesus of the Bible. God in Christ presses His claims on men as a sovereign God not as a wimp who wishes for what he can't have and hopes for what he cannot bring to pass. No man will bow to God until he understands that God is God.

This doesn't follow. I certainly do not believe that God is not sovereign nor that He is some kind of wimp open to the whims of man. That would be unscriptural. What I don't do is talk about what I believe to be a mystery. There is nothing wrong or unscriptural about not being dogmatic about a doctrine that we simply can not fully understand. If someone asks me about Christ I will tell them that they can partake in the gift by trusting in His sacrifice and going from there. God can then redeem them. My commission and responsibility is to make disciples not to make believers.

 

[DD2008]

It is clearly stated throughout the whole of Scripture. God chose Abram and left others in Ur. God chose Jacob and left Esau to himself. God chose Noah and destroyed the whole world. God chose Israel and left all others in the darkness. And on and on I could go. No one has yet to answer what I said about the day of atonement. Who was it for?

It's for whoever has faith in God.

Romans 4:13 KJV
[13] For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 9:30 KJV
[30] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.