19 yr old cant prove she's a citizen.

[NightHawkeye]

Personally, assuming the story is true and I was her, I'd just turn myself in and claim to be an illegal alien who snuck over the border from Mexico. That way, she'd get a social security card, a driver's license, and could go from there.

Yep ... and she'd get special tax privileges, too.

 

[SnowyMacie]

My wife and I have homeschooled our children for about fifteen years now and are familiar with the movement, although we're not very active in it, and I don't believe the description of homeschoolers is remotely accurate, either.

Homeschooling takes on a variety of different appearances. I went to a Christian university, I learned that no two homeschooling situations are alike. None of them remotely matched this extreme, but we also aren't a conservative school by any means, for example, evolution and a 13.8 billion y/o is taught as fact, and professors encourage students to talk to them if they can't reconcile science and Christianity. I also watch a lot of documentaries, and have seen on those stories that get pretty close to this. One in particular that comes up is Jesus Camp, and a homeschool scene where they pledge allegiance to the Bible and then watch a thing about science was wrong. The mom talked about how she wanted her children to have a Bible-based education which is not offered in public schools.

 

[Red Fox]

Personally, assuming the story is true and I was her, I'd just turn myself in and claim to be an illegal alien who snuck over the border from Mexico. That way, she'd get a social security card, a driver's license, and could go from there.

Or she could do what the European invaders did, going back to Columbus... She could go onto someone's land and into their house, claim that she lives there now and then they will be forced to move to accommodate her and other people like her. Oh wait... her ancestors have already done that on stolen NDN land. So, I guess she would be carrying on an old family tradition if she were to do that, completely ignoring the fact she is the descendant of immigrants herself.

 

[He is Risen 72]

How do we know she is a woman, or even Human? How can she prove she was born? Send her back to Mexico!

 

[stray bullet]

.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Sounds like the parents are anarcho-survivalist types. Poor young woman.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You'd have to ask them. A bigger question is how do we know for sure where she was born?

Or even that she was born for that matter. She certainly doesn't have any proof to back that up.

It would be just like a liberal communist scumbag who was never born to pretend they were just so they could get a government handout.

THE NERVE!

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Newsflash. There are pro-illegal immigration activists in Texas.

By the way, can you prove she's a Texan?

Well what exactly qualifies a person to be a Texan?

 

[JustMeSee]

How do you homeschool without any oversight?

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Im confused as the actual Caesar would not welcome just anyone and the Entire OP is about how the Metaphorical Caesar (the US government) will not welcome just anyone. Could you talk in plain language, just say what you mean.

Caesar would indeed welcome anyone! It’s what he’s all about -- converting, via deception, the living members of Christ’s body into dead entities, thereby legally granting Caesar jurisdiction over them. For example, do you understand that marriage is illegal (notice I did not say un-Lawful)? IOW, if you, as a citizen of the forum State, marry without Caesar’s “permission,” then you are breaking Caesar’s law! The citizen is required to obtain Caesar’s “license” (from the word licentious, meaning morally unrestrained; lascivious). Your birth certificate has been monetized; the only detail at issue is, to which of his nation-states/corporations (corpse = dead thing) will Caesar “credit” the value of your labor, from cradle to grave? Having submitted to Caesar for “permission” to do what God has already said is Lawful (e.g. marriage), Caesar would now claim ownership of the product of your union (i.e. your future offspring!). This is why CPS (Child Protective Services) and its various clones can legally come into your house and take your children from you on any pretext they wish, even as you lay on the floor, guns pointed at your head, screaming about your so-called Caesarian-granted “rights.”

So, as soon as they come to an agreement as to which area/state/etc. the young woman claims as her “residence,” they will then “welcome her with open arms.” Anything and everything else is simply pageantry to keep the sheeple ignorant of Caesar’s sleight-of-hand legal $y$tem.

Her mother is sick and ought to be arrested. When I read her little quote about feeling 'hurt' and a 'godless woman' I was a bit enraged.

That is the typical worldly conditioned response -- crying again to Caesar.

Yeah really, she could be Canadian for all we know, and the last thing we need in this country are more illegal Canadians.

Aye? lol Actually, what “we need” is to sort out which authority we are to properly submit to.

She could be a lot of things. like a lying activist for illegal immigration.

”Illegal immigration” is not the problem. The rich men of the earth, the merchants, the bankers who crafted the ungodly system that allows such things is the problem.

Why are parents going along with what she's saying if she's lying?

That’s just more of the game. This is a beta test. You’re expected to get upset and enraged, with all your Caesarian conditioning in full bloom.

You'd have to ask them. A bigger question is how do we know for sure where she was born?

Ah, so you see, we’re back to the “which nation-state gets the credit for her labor” question...

This is incorrect. All persons born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction are citizens of the United States. 8 U.S.C. § 1401.

This is incorrect.

If you are born on US soil, you are automatically a citizen period. All she needs to do is get that delayed birth certificate, and that's all the documentation she will need.

Incorrect. If that was true, she would not need a birth cert.!

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Further to the following quote:

All persons born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction are citizens of the United States. 8 U.S.C. § 1401.

In Smith's handbook of Elementary Law, it says that "a citizen is a permanent member of the state...owes it allegiance at all times, and is entitled to its permanent protection. The status of his membership as citizen is distinguished by its permanent and personal nature and may be determined by the place of his birth, by the nationality of his parents, by his election, or by some form of naturalization."​

Notice that citizenship may be determined by the place of "birth," which is why one of the first questions a cop asks you is about your birth date and birth place. And it also has to do with "naturalization." The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution says, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States, and of the State wherein they reside." There are conditional clauses there. Just being "born or naturalized" in a country does not make one a citizen of that country, one must also be "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."


This is easily explained by the following example. If an American soldier is stationed in Germany, and has a baby that's born in Germany, that baby is not considered a citizen of Germany but of America, even though that baby was "born" in Germany! Why is this? Because they are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of Germany, they are subject to the jurisdiction of America. Why? Because that is the law that the parents have submitted themselves to.



How do we, as followers of Christ, determine if we are subject to the jurisdiction thereof? A lot has to do with the words that come out of our mouth, but it also has to do with our walk. Are you truly serving Christ or are you serving the State (by partaking of its benefits)? Most people are driven to State worship because they love the "protection" the State gives, they love the things of the world. So, if you're not subject to Christ, he puts you under a taskmaster, the heathen, like he did with Israel. And that's the state of the people who live, move, and have their being in the State today; they're in captivity and don't even know it.



Just because one is born in a country it does not make one a citizen of that country; especially when it comes to ambassadors:

"Citizens are natives or naturalized. All persons born in the United States are not citizens. The exceptions are 1) children of foreign ambassadors..." Bouvier's Institutes of Law, 1851.​

Bondservants of Christ fit this description. We are children of God, and we are ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20, Ephesians 6:20). Therefore, this is further evidence that ambassadors are not considered citizens of a country, even if born in that country. Also, as ambassadors for Christ, we can not participate in the politics of the nation.



To put this citizenship thing in a much simpler frame, here's a court case from 1865:

"You have heard some discussion as to the meaning of this term 'citizenship of the United States.' It has a plain, simple, everyday meaning, and that meaning you may safely take, without a definition, is that unequivocal relation between every American and his country which binds him to allegiance and pledges to him protection." United States v. Darnod, 25 Federal Case Number 14,915 page 763.​

This is completely opposed to what scripture teaches, which is to "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another" (Romans 13:8). If we owe allegiance to Caesar, we not only owe something besides "love," but we are trying to serve two masters, which Christ says is impossible.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Further to my three home birthed and home schooled and unpapered children, they are not citizens of any country on earth. They are sovereign in Christ. Caesar cannot touch them -- Lawfully or legally. Hopefully, they will continue to choose to walk in the true liberty they've enjoyed thus far, when they leave my authority to marry.

 

[Aureus]

Further to my three home birthed and home schooled and unpapered children, they are not citizens of any country on earth. They are sovereign in Christ. Caesar cannot touch them -- Lawfully or legally. Hopefully, they will continue to choose to walk in the true liberty they've enjoyed thus far, when they leave my authority to marry.

Presuming they were born in the United States, they're citizens unless they've specifically renounced their citizenship. And yes, Caesar can touch them, lawfully and legally. Whether or not you are a citizen or have renounced your citizenship you must still obey the laws of the land, and pay your taxes. Render Unto Caesar's what is Caesar's.

This is easily explained by the following example. If an American soldier is stationed in Germany, and has a baby that's born in Germany, that baby is not considered a citizen of Germany but of America, even though that baby was "born" in Germany! Why is this? Because they are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of Germany, they are subject to the jurisdiction of America. Why? Because that is the law that the parents have submitted themselves to.

Germany's citizenship laws are not governed by what you quoted. If an American Soldier is stationed in Germany and has a baby that is born in a German hospital, rather than one on the US Military Base, to a German Mother that Child is citizen of Germany and of the United States unless that Child at some future point renounces one or the other citizenship status.

Of particular interest is myself actually. I was born as a Canadian and United States Citizen. Period, end of. That I didn't ever ask for *proof* of my Canadian Citizenship until after I was 18 was immaterial, for those 18 years I was a Canadian Citizen.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Presuming they were born in the United States, they're citizens unless they've specifically renounced their citizenship. And yes, Caesar can touch them, lawfully and legally.

You are incorrect on both counts. While everyone has nation-ality, which has to do with one’s location of physical nativity (i.e. location of birth), nation-ality is not the issue. As I already documented for you, citizenship (of any color) is not automatic. That you (indeed the majority), in ignorance of the law, may have acquiesced to the authority of the forum State re: meeting citizenship requirements, does not mean all others have.

Whether or not you are a citizen or have renounced your citizenship you must still obey the laws of the land, and pay your taxes. Render Unto Caesar's what is Caesar's.

Hackneyed phrases, such as “obey the laws of the land” and “pay your taxes” are nothing more than folklore, tradition, the normal uninformed response borne of the usual 24/7 conditioning of the world.

I don't pay taxes, neither do I owe any man anything but love. I am not a citizen of any earthly country, not a resident, not any of those legal person-alities. I am married and have three daughters -- all "unpapered," e.g. no birth cert's, etc. They are not citizens of any earthly country; they are sovereign in Christ. Caesar (i.e. man's ungodly government) cannot touch them, although the spirit behind them would kill us (and you). My family lives, moves, and has its being in Christ -- not in Caesar.

Rather, the issue is, what thing(s) of Caesar’s are you partaking of that would require such a rendering to Caesar? For me, I have no things of Caesar’s, therefore I owe Caesar NADA. Thank you, Lord!

You are under whatever law you have chosen to put yourself under. The choice is yours. But beware, for there is a form of obedience that leads to death:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16)

For example, the USA is going down the tubes RIGHT NOW. No one would knowingly sign on for a program that leads to bondage and death, so DECEPTION must necessarily be employed...

If your reaction to being told that there are faults in Caesar's statutes is to rush to defend them, it is because you cannot envision life without them. This is normal for someone who can only see one kingdom: the kingdom of this world. Yet this world is passing away, as are our own bodies. There is only one thing in life more certain than Caesar's taxes. So we are really here as a test of whether we can “see” and then choose those things that have eternal value. Are our energies devoted to laying up earthly treasures, or treasures in heaven? Are we slaves devoted to building the kingdom of this world, or are we seeking first the kingdom of God? We cannot even know where to begin unless we can see God's kingdom, which is the true meaning of being born again.

God in his sovereignty has provided the perfect means of testing whether we can make the distinction between the two kingdoms. Caesar has usurped God's authority, but his kingdom is built entirely with our consent and by using legal fictions. His authority over us is imaginary. We do not have to render ourselves to him unless we believe that we belong to him. Most people believe with all their heart that they do, for they cannot see the alternative. But if you know that you belong to God, along with your labor, your family, and everything else you have, then you will already have a deep-seated unease with the multitude of demands Caesar makes on you.

If this is the case, then make a list of those things that rightly belong to God but you have in ignorance given to Caesar. Then develop a plan of action for returning them to their rightful owner. This is not easy, but it is necessary. You will need to learn much more about God's Law so that you can discern what true obedience requires of you. If you trust the State to provide for your needs rather than trusting God, it should be clear which master you are serving. As no man can serve two masters, you have a choice to make. Scripture is clear that obedience to God comes at a price, and we must first count the cost. But once you can see the eternal kingdom, you will realize that any price is worth it.

Matthew 13:44, “The kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.”

Germany's citizenship laws are not governed by what you quoted. If an American Soldier is stationed in Germany and has a baby that is born in a German hospital, rather than one on the US Military Base, to a German Mother that Child is citizen of Germany and of the United States unless that Child at some future point renounces one or the other citizenship status.

Here, you have mischaracterized my post on this. You have altered the facts as I presented them to validate your diversion.

Of particular interest is myself actually. I was born as a Canadian and United States Citizen. Period, end of. That I didn't ever ask for *proof* of my Canadian Citizenship until after I was 18 was immaterial, for those 18 years I was a Canadian Citizen.

lol @the fiction of Caesar’s magical “after I was 18” threshold.

You can post anecdotes all day long, but again, I posted the law itself, which clearly explains that citizenship is NOT automatically determined solely by place of physical nativity. And I have three unpapered sovereign offspring as living proof.

Concerning the OP:

From the opening sentences...

On Sep. 24, 2014, 18-year-old Alecia Faith Pennington left her family and childhood home with the help of her grandparents. Having been raised in a staunchly Christian, homeschooled family in Texas, she was ready to set off and pursue a new life. But she quickly realized that would not be possible.

...to the closing sentences...

"I have seen parents change and come around and learn to respect their adult children as being adults," Stollar said. "But I’ve absolutely seen it not happen, too. Many times, what is required for parents to change is a crisis situation like the one Alecia is facing, where all hell breaks loose and the only reason the parents do change their mind is there is so much pressure put on them publicly. They are forced to acknowledge the damage they're doing to their children."

Folks, this is called slanted journalism. Its purpose is to demonize the “staunchly Christian, homeschooled family” and to implicitly bring you along with Caesar for the conditioning ride.

 

[Aureus]

You are incorrect on both counts. While everyone has nation-ality, which has to do with one’s location of physical nativity (i.e. location of birth), nation-ality is not the issue. As I already documented for you, citizenship (of any color) is not automatic. That you (indeed the majority), in ignorance of the law, may have acquiesced to the authority of the forum State re: meeting citizenship requirements, does not mean all others have.

No, you demonstrated a distinct lack of knowledge in your previous posts really.

Hackneyed phrases, such as “obey the laws of the land” and “pay your taxes” are nothing more than folklore, tradition, the normal uninformed response borne of the usual 24/7 conditioning of the world.

I don't pay taxes, neither do I owe any man anything but love. I am not a citizen of any earthly country, not a resident, not any of those legal person-alities. I am married and have three daughters -- all "unpapered," e.g. no birth cert's, etc. They are not citizens of any earthly country; they are sovereign in Christ. Caesar (i.e. man's ungodly government) cannot touch them, although the spirit behind them would kill us (and you). My family lives, moves, and has its being in Christ -- not in Caesar.

Let me know how that works out for you when the tax man comes calling.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

No, you demonstrated a distinct lack of knowledge in your previous posts really.

"really"??? I "demonstrated" documentation, while you demonstrated opinion.

Let me know how that works out for you when the tax man comes calling.

I already did, but evidently you weren't listening. I don't owe any taxes. Why ? Because I do not partake of any Caesarian benefits packages, so no rendering unto Caesar is due.

 

[Aureus]

"really"??? I "demonstrated" documentation, while you demonstrated opinion.

You demonstrated your inability to understand any of the laws you quoted.

I already did, but evidently you weren't listening. I don't owe any taxes. Why ? Because I do not partake of any Caesarian benefits packages, so no rendering unto Caesar is due.

Living within the boundaries of a Nation means you are partaking of their services. Even if you somehow abstained from ever using a road, a power line, a government built infrastructure etc.. etc.. etc... the simple security of your land is provided by the nation you reside in. So yes, you do partake of the 'benefits packages' whether you wish to acknowledge the truth of that or not.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Living within the boundaries of a Nation means you are partaking of their services.

Wrong again. Firstly, I don’t live within the boundaries of any nation. If I tell you I live at such-and-such, then that means I am dead right here right now, because no man can be alive at two places at the same time. Rather, I live and move and have my being in my Father who is in heaven.

Even if you somehow abstained from ever using [blah blah]...

You’ve missed the point, but I understand why you have. It’s not about abstaining. It’s about entering into agreements with heathen, with pagans, which the word of God forbids us to do. Like the $14,000 average indebtedness carried by the US citizen, and the mortgage (morte = death + gage = pledge; mortgage = death agreement). Those are contractual and you will render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s (i.e. his money, with usury/interest), or, as per the current margin-call scenario with record foreclosures, “your” house/property.

Point: The body of Christ is not made of up thieves; we pay for what we use. And we don’t enter into agreements/contracts with the ungodly.

...from ever using a road...

Please, check the law before you spout the conditioned response. Caesar’s own laws state that the roads belong to the people.

...the simple security of your land is provided by the nation you reside in.

That’s a legal word, it’s private copyright law, aka the Lex Mercatoria (Law Merchant). Google it and have a party. When you use that language, Caesar’s language, speaking as the world speaks, you are seen as one of his “right and duty bearing units;” he will obtain jurisdiction over you and you will render to him.

That is what a “resident” is -- Latin res = thing, + ident = identified. Resident = the thing identified.

So yes, you do partake of the 'benefits packages' whether you wish to acknowledge the truth of that or not.

Rather, ”benefits packages” have duties attached to them, duties that Caesar generally chooses to not reveal. It’s those duties that are shafting, for example, the US citizen, as gov’t jack-booted thugs bang on your castle door to take you off to “indefinite detention” or shoot you outright.

Point: Don’t engage in commercial activity.

So, relating this to the OP again,

We have a young woman we are being conditioned to lament for, because she does not have access to all the benefits packages of citizenship with the forum State. Just as quickly as the world can get her set-up with a forum State, she will become a "right and duty bearing unit" as a Caesarian "citizen," and the rendering to Caesar will begin. Most folks come to love the bondage they have signed on for.

 

[Aureus]

Wrong again. Firstly, I don’t live within the boundaries of any nation. If I tell you I live at such-and-such, then that means I am dead right here right now, because no man can be alive at two places at the same time. Rather, I live and move and have my being in my Father who is in heaven.

Much as you attempt to protest, yes you do live within the boundaries of a nation.

You’ve missed the point, but I understand why you have. It’s not about abstaining. It’s about entering into agreements with heathen, with pagans, which the word of God forbids us to do. Like the $14,000 average indebtedness carried by the US citizen, and the mortgage (morte = death + gage = pledge; mortgage = death agreement). Those are contractual and you will render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s (i.e. his money, with usury/interest), or, as per the current margin-call scenario with record foreclosures, “your” house/property.

What are you, a 'Sovereign Citizen' ? Making up magical meanings for words and then pretending those are real is just sad and deluded. Mortage does indeed come from 'death' and 'pledge.' But leaving at 'mortgage = death agreement' is hilarious, delusional and foolish. The word means that the pledge ends, or dies, when either the obligation is fulfilled or the property is taken because the pledge was not fulfilled. But then you probably have already read that and bought the hilarious and deluded statement that the actual meaning is a lie and that your delusional meaning is the truth.

Please, check the law before you spout the conditioned response. Caesar’s own laws state that the roads belong to the people.

They belong to the citizens.

That’s a legal word, it’s private copyright law, aka the Lex Mercatoria (Law Merchant). Google it and have a party. When you use that language, Caesar’s language, speaking as the world speaks, you are seen as one of his “right and duty bearing units;” he will obtain jurisdiction over you and you will render to him.

Lex Mercatoria has only ever applied to international situations.

That is what a “resident” is -- Latin res = thing, + ident = identified. Resident = the thing identified.

No, it comes from the latin word residens, which means... residing.

 

[dgiharris]

I don't have the patience to wad through Sojourner4Christ's crazy post, but I remember something about some quirk in US law that does allow you to reject citizenship and declare yourself your own Sovereign Self. I don't know the particulars because it is freaking crazy and you have to be one of those anarchist types to do it, but I've heard about and read about people doing it.

Saw one incident on TV, cops pulled over someone and that person refused to have their vehicle registered and pulled out some Sovereign self law stuff and paperwork and after arguing with the cop for like 20 minutes it was such a headache the cop just let them go LOL