17 Students Killed at Florida High School

[Tropical Wilds]

Not to mention we need to examine priorities if you feel regulating the sale and ownership of guns is a violation of your rights that can’t be tolerated, then forcibly committing people without due process because they’re too unstable to own a gun should they come across one should also be an issue too...

 

[Ada Lovelace]

There is quite a bit of irrational, unrelated thought here, imo.

Those who wish to take guns away from law abiding citizens because students are being gunned down by mentally ill people which government drops the ball in using current rules/laws to contain....

how about we take away driver's licenses from teens? THEY kill themselves and each other far more than any teen with a firearm! That sounds much more logical, rational, to me.

I agree there's a bit of irrational, unrelated thought, but disagree on who is responsible for producing it.

Rather than merely bloviating and wringing hands about the number of inexperienced teens killing themselves and others on the road due to poor driving, the process for obtaining a drivers license has become increasingly more rigorous to equip us with knowledge and experience that reduces risk. As I explained, I spent months in drivers ed and a year with a learners permit in order to be issued a license, and then complied with the numerous rules imposed on underage drivers. Rather than striking down laws that restrict young drivers, lawmakers have wanted to add more, such as this one in my state. Drivers of all ages are more at risk of being in accidents caused by texting while driving, and subsequently, laws prohibiting texting while driving have been enacted in many states to reduce that risk.

Rather than spending billions over the years on lobbyists to fight all measures that intensify the process for teens being able to use their products, automakers have largely cooperated, and several have added additional safety measures to their vehicles that were specifically designed for young drivers. Insurance companies offer incentives for young drivers to improve their driving habits and reduce the cost of their premiums. They've paid for campaigns urging teens to be more careful about driving distracted.

Even though fewer American teens are getting their licenses at age 16 than in the past, most teen drivers still are. This is the process in Florida:

Florida Learner's Permit

In order to apply for a Florida learner's permit, you must be at least 15 years old and have completed the Florida Traffic Law and Substance Abuse Education (TLSAE) course. For more information, visit our Driver's Ed in Florida page.

You must visit your local Division of Driver Licenses office with:
A completed Parental Consent for a Driver Application of a Minor (Form HSMV 71142).
Proof of your identity (e.g. certified U.S. birth certificate).
Proof of your Social Security number (e.g. Social Security card).
Proof that you have completed a TLSAE course OR your out-of-state learner's permit.
All TSLAE providers electronically report your exam results to the DHSMV, so you don't need a paper certificate.
Proof of your Florida residential address.

Once you provide the required documents mentioned above, you'll need to pass the following:
Vision exam.
Hearing test.
DMV written test.
You may take and pass the written test online through a third-party vendor. HOWEVER, you may be asked to re-take the test at your local Division of Driver Licenses office when you submit your proof of having passed it, as the state randomly selects test-takers to repeat it in person.

Driving Restrictions and Behind-the-Wheel Practice
With your Florida learner's permit in your possession, you can only drive during daytime hours for the first 3 months. After this time, you will be allowed to drive until 10 p.m.
You must always be with a licensed driver who is at least 21 years old and is sitting in the front passenger seat.
Before moving on to your provisional license:
You must practice driving for at least 50 hours.
10 hours of the total 50 hours must be driven at night.

Florida Provisional License

To move on to your intermediate driver's license, you must:
Be at least 16 years old.
Have had your Florida learner's permit for at least 1 year without incident.
Have completed a minimum of 50 hours of behind-the-wheel driving experience (10 hours must be at night).
You must visit a Division of Driver Licenses office and:
Submit your FL learner's license or out-of-state learner's permit.
Pass a driving test OR present a DMV road test waiver from your Driver's Ed course.
Submit certification that you've completed the required behind-the-wheel hours.
Provisional License Driving Restrictions
Depending on your age, you'll need to follow certain driving restrictions while on your intermediate driver's license.
16 years old: You may drive unsupervised, but only between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m.
17 years old: You may only drive unsupervised between 5 a.m. and 1 a.m.
Regardless of your age, you can drive at any time of day if:
You're supervised by a licensed driver who is at least 21 years old.
OR
You are driving to and from work.

Apply for a Florida Teen Driver's License | DMV.ORG

The process Nikolas Cruz underwent to legally purchase the rifle he used in the massacre to slaughter innocents was much briefer and simpler. He didn't have to get a license for it. Do you support laws that would require a gun license to operate a gun, and a process for earning a license more comparable to that of earning a drivers license?

 

[drjean]

The latest mentally sick teen purchased the long rifle legally, technically, yes. But the FBI dropped the ball by ignoring the reports, even last month, name and data complete they didn't even visit him. He had had 39 police visits due to issues in the previous years. I can agree that no untrained teen should be able to buy a firearm. However, this guy obviously was trained because he hit so many targets. (JROTC?)

You cannot legislate because of a few by rescinding the rights of the many. Well, you can, but that would not be in a Constitutional Republic.

The argument to remove firearms is not rational. We have all the gun laws we need, and as this teen proved, people who are bent on being criminals do not obey laws. Layering even more laws upon law abiding citizens to curb the non-law abiding citizens or illegals for that matter is ludicrous.

 

[SummerMadness]

The latest mentally sick teen purchased the long rifle legally, technically, yes. But the FBI dropped the ball by ignoring the reports, even last month, name and data complete they didn't even visit him. He had had 39 police visits due to issues in the previous years. I can agree that no untrained teen should be able to buy a firearm. However, this guy obviously was trained because he hit so many targets. (JROTC?)

You cannot legislate because of a few by rescinding the rights of the many. Well, you can, but that would not be in a Constitutional Republic.

The argument to remove firearms is not rational. We have all the gun laws we need, and as this teen proved, people who are bent on being criminals do not obey laws. Layering even more laws upon law abiding citizens to curb the non-law abiding citizens or illegals for that matter is ludicrous.

No one made the argument to remove all firearms, only you did.

 

[drjean]

The comments are being made in PUBLIC and in other threads here too. I'm in the area of the latest shooting. Perhaps the MSM isn't covering the truth again, but surely they are since they MSM support a gunless society.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

This person did obey the law and obtain his gun entirely legally, a step made easier thanks to our current president and Obama-era safeguards he ended a year ago. Remember? Everybody cheered it as the restoration of personal freedoms and constititutional rights... So there shouldn’t be any head scratching over how a guy who was reported to the FBI for being unstable, reported to local police 40 times for being unstable, and reported to another state’s sheriffs office ended up with a gun he legally purchased.

And the first time anybody who has mentioned banning all guns came from you. This isn’t “MSM” reporting, this is a fabrication made entirely by you and then when got called out on it, you blamed MSM... Which is really baffling considering MSM isn’t participating in this thread, so you deflected your own strawman onto another strawman that you fabricated. So you created your own false scenario, then created a false scenario to blame for your scenario.

That leads me to believe that discussing how people need to take personal responsibility may not be for you...

Oh, and no, he wasn’t trained. These guns are just that bad. Maybe you should read the autopsy reports of the people who died in Vegas or the children Sandy Hook to see how little skill it requires to do so much damage in such a short amount of time. I am pro-gun control and I didn’t realize how truly overpowered this gun is until I read the reports. They describe how a bullet bounced off the ribs and spine of a child after it entered the body from the shoulder (the child was in what’s described as a “cowering defensive position” at the time they were shot, so says the autopsy), shredding them from the inside, before exiting the body and going into another child... And that the child lived 90-120 seconds after being shot, in agony, pain, and fear, with a cause of death as “homicide by gun - asphyxiation from blood loss into left lung.”

Yes, it is traumatizing to think an elementary school student literally drowned in their own blood for in an agonizing death for up to 2 full minutes after being shot while at what should be one of the safest places in America... But people need to know what they are advocating for when they advocate against gun control. It means not that you’re ok it happened to that kid, it means that you’re ok with it happening to the next kid, because it’s clear we are not in an “if it happens again” situation, but a “when it happens again” situation.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

how about we take away driver's licenses from teens? THEY kill themselves and each other far more than any teen with a firearm! That sounds much more logical, rational, to me.

You take away alcohol from teens, so why not guns. Another ridiculous Americanism, that people can own a gun as a teenager, but can't drink until they're 21.

 

[Rick Otto]

No...I'm stating facts. The standards for involuntary commitment are what they are...and even if they could commit him, they can't hold him forever.

The only way to avoid this was to keep a gun out of his hands.

Yeah, his hands, not mine.
They didn't even try.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Yeah, his hands, not mine.
They didn't even try.

There is quite literally no reason you or any civilian needs to own the semi-automatic weapon used in this shooting, and most other mass shootings as it appears to be the gun of choice of unbalanced people looking to make a statement.

 

[Rick Otto]

Are you conceding that we cannot afford the two trillion that boondoggle in the Middle East cost us now?

Why should I? The Federal Reserve doesn't think so. They lend as fast as we can borrow.
Oh... maybe you thought the Federal Reserve was part of the U.S. government.

 

[Rick Otto]

There is quite literally no reason you or any civilian needs to own the semi-automatic weapon used in this shooting, and most other mass shootings as it appears to be the gun of choice of unbalanced people looking to make a statement.

Hey, thanks for your opinion, regardless of what it's worth!

 

[Tropical Wilds]

No problem. Glad I could illuminate you.

 

[Rick Otto]

No problem. Glad I could illuminate you.

If that's what you call it...

 

[lasthero]

You take away alcohol from teens, so why not guns. Another ridiculous Americanism, that people can own a gun as a teenager, but can't drink until they're 21.

This has been the argument that’s been bugging me the most since this all happened. It feels weird for us to say that a 19 year old isn’t deemed responsible enough to have a single beer, but is responsible enough to own an AR-15 capable of kills dozens of people.

I’m sure there’s some reasoning behind it. I just have no idea what it is.

 

[pgp_protector]

There is quite literally no reason you or any civilian needs to own the semi-automatic weapon used in this shooting, and most other mass shootings as it appears to be the gun of choice of unbalanced people looking to make a statement.

so should both of these be banned or only the bottom one?

 

[Rion]

You take away alcohol from teens, so why not guns. Another ridiculous Americanism, that people can own a gun as a teenager, but can't drink until they're 21.

I'm sure many of the people you're talking to would be fine with lowering the age for alcohol as well.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

so should both of these be banned or only the bottom one?

I’m sure you realize that despite their difference in appearance with one looking more “threatening” than the other they are, for all other purposes besides internet baiting, the same weapon on paper with bullets and loading and being semi-automatic, etc etc (though the number of bullets they can hold vary pretty wildly).

I see your bait, I’m not biting. Especially since you aren’t less dead being shot by somebody intent on shooting you if one uses the top one on you vs the bottom one.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah, his hands, not mine.
They didn't even try.

Nobody is talking about taking a gun out of your hands....

...though now that you bring it up, given the crazy conspiracy theories you believe in, you probably shouldn't have any guns either lol.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

This has been the argument that’s been bugging me the most since this all happened. It feels weird for us to say that a 19 year old isn’t deemed responsible enough to have a single beer, but is responsible enough to own an AR-15 capable of kills dozens of people.

I’m sure there’s some reasoning behind it. I just have no idea what it is.

My friends and I are going to Florida for spring break, and had difficulty booking a condo because the majority of complexes have policies requiring that at least one guest be over the age of 25, and we're 18-20. There are a few that will allow younger guests, if there's at least one "lead" guest who is over 21, but still refused us because the oldest in our party will turn 21 while we're there. We'll be staying not in the destination we preferred, but an hour away in the town where my grandparents "snowbird" to escape the brutal winters in Ohio, and are graciously letting us use one of their condos. Trying to rent a car there is going to be another age-related hassle.

So to summarize, due to our age, there are additional obstacles to booking a condo and renting a car in Florida, and my friends and I will not be able to purchase any alcohol there. Many popular nightclubs will refuse us entry because we're underage. It's possible we won't even be able to go to some movie theaters there, if they serve alcohol, even if we have no intention of consuming any. When I was home in LA a few weeks ago the one theater that was playing the movie I really wanted to see is AMC Sunset 5, which requires you to be 21 because they now sell beer and wine. My stepmom, who is in her early 40s, was carded twice at that theater, and she didn't purchase alcohol. They were wanting to be that diligent to ensure a minor didn't slip in. But while in Florida if we have the desire to purchase a rifle like the one used in the massacre, we'll be able to just waltz on into a store and start the simple process to legally buy one.

One of the eeriest, most jarring sites I saw while in Florida in the past were the roadside gun vendors. We drove from Northwest Florida up to Alabama, and on the way there was a man with rifles laid out on a table advertising them as being for sell. Farther up the road there were these tents advertising rifles and boiled peanuts.

 

[SaintCody777]

On the day of that school shooting, OneBlood has sent some blood to the hospitals where they're treating the wounded shooting victims. Yesterday, my university had a blood drive yesterday from OneBlood to save the lives of the wounded school shooting victims who are still fighting for their lives. And that is the first time ever in my life that I've ever donated blood.
I drank a ton of liquids and ate a big sandwich right before I donated blood. Donating blood looked a little scary but I comforted myself by saying to myself that I'm keeping the death toll from that school shooting from rising by donating my blood. Right after I donated, I threw up but I had no side effects afterwards.