17 Students Killed at Florida High School

[Zoii]

That is percentage of days which an incident occurred at all, but ignores the number of schools in total. Your math is how fast food restaurants can claim "1 in 5 wins."

Im happy to allow you whatever way you want to interpret it. That 0.4 shootings a day in schools is immutable. I leave it to you to state its not high or as you now put it..... no different to fast food . I will not dispute how you feel about the child murder statistics .

 

[Rion]

Im happy to allow you whatever way you want to interpret it. That 0.4 shootings a day in schools is immutable. I leave it to you to state its not high or as you now put it..... no different to fast food . I will not dispute how you feel about the child murder statistics .

Please stop trying to emotionally manipulate or browbeat me. I don't appreciate it at all. This sort of petty behavior is a large contributor to why nothing ever happens.

 

[durangodawood]

OK people... get your comments in now. Starting tomorrow we need to lay off this event so we can get ready for the next one.

 

[SummerMadness]

Please stop trying to emotionally manipulate or browbeat me. I don't appreciate it at all. This sort of petty behavior is a large contributor to why nothing ever happens.

I don't think you need to browbeaten emotionally, but you used poor reasoning to make your point. A value of frequency cannot tell you if something is high or low.

 

[Nithavela]

OK people... get your comments in now. Starting tomorrow we need to lay off this event so we can get ready for the next one.

How optimistic, assuming that there won't be a shooting today.

 

[Rion]

I don't think you need to browbeaten emotionally, but you used poor reasoning to make your point. A value of frequency cannot tell you if something is high or low.

That is a valid argument. Implying that I don't care about the situation is not.

 

[durangodawood]

.....A value of frequency cannot tell you if something is high or low.

Obviously, for American tastes, the frequency is "low".

 

[Zoii]

Please stop trying to emotionally manipulate or browbeat me. I don't appreciate it at all. This sort of petty behavior is a large contributor to why nothing ever happens.

Which bit is petty? Bringing up the incidence of school shootings? Ok I take you point about feeling brow beaten and I dont want you to feel that way at all. So Im going to try another way. In any major change in life or business, the first step is to bench mark. Simply put, check your performance against similar nations. Rion its high n im trying to express it with sincerity and respect. Its high... its a problem. And the strategies used to manage the problem aren't working. You need to do something courageously different.

 

[Rion]

Which bit is petty? Bringing up the incidence of school shootings? Ok I take you point about feeling brow beaten and I dont want you to feel that way at all. So Im going to try another way. In any major change in life or business, the first step is to bench mark. Simply put, check your performance against similar nations. Rion its high n im trying to express it with sincerity and respect. Its high... its a problem. And the strategies used to manage the problem aren't working. You need to do something courageously different.

Which I am not arguing against. I am saying to not use poor math and overly affective arguments. Since you and summer like research, allow me to suggest "Political Psychology" (Arceneaux, K., & Vander Wielen, R. J. 2013).

 

[SummerMadness]

Which I am not arguing against. I am saying to not use poor math and overly affective arguments. Since you and summer like research, allow me to suggest "Political Psychology" (Arceneaux, K., & Vander Wielen, R. J. 2013).

Your citation skills are lacking, what specific point from this article are you attempting to highlight (I can tell research is not part of your background)?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

An unfortunate symptom of putting partisanship over facts.

The reality is, the US can have the best of both worlds if they would be willing to entertain something like this:
Gun laws in the Czech Republic - Wikipedia

Nobody seems to want to entertain a reasonable middle ground. Once side wants to cite UK and Australia as a reason why we need to have a ban, and the other side rejects any and all ideas simply on the grounds of who's suggesting the ideas.


Basically, our current system is full of holes and anyone not looking through a partisan filter understands why it's risky to have a weak screening process in place with regards to purchasing the most effective handheld tool of force known to man. Bypassing background checks is unacceptable, and background checks that a person, with severe bipolar disorder, can pass is unacceptable.

I used to be against any and all forms of regulation...I changed my view on that when an extended family member (with Schizophrenia) who had an "episode" not two months prior was able to pass a background check and buy a rifle (that thankfully his roommate took away and locked in his own safe). For a person with Schizo, they're literally 1 or 2 accidentally missed doses away from hearing voices and perceiving things that aren't there. Combine that with easy access to guns...yeah, that's a problem.

There's a vast middle ground between "so mentally unstable that you needed to be institutionalized" and "sane and rational enough to own a firearm". Currently, our NICS process only checks for that one extreme scenario. Meanwhile, thousands of people with varying degrees of mental issues (ranging from bipolar, severe anxiety, and depression) are legally buying firearms.

 

[Phil 1:21]

"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14

 

[Rion]

.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That is in large part because the side which should be arguing for finding a long term, reasonable solution always react with a knee-jerk response to ban guns.

Rather emotional response coming from you -- ignoring all the talking that's been said about more extensive background checks, tighter security regulations, screenings for mental illnesses...

Seems like when people start talking, all that cognition goes out the window and all you hear is "ban guns! ban guns!"

 

[Maren]

I was trying to not join in on the fear-mongering by those who tout "get the guns out of the USA". There's a charter Christian? school here locally who offered bullet proof backpack plates for $100 a pop... encouraging each family to buy them for their students.

I doubt students could even realize there's a problem. Their critical thinking skills have not been instilled. Even while the guy was shooting their first inclination was to find their phones to video! Teachers had to yell no no no forget the phones run run run!

However, this morning they are in a Lantana trailer park ... connected to this murderer? Could be another shooter, and a bomb ready to be used.

The guy was flagged to the FBI already. Guess they were too busy creating dirt on POTUS to get him and stop him.

His problems began as a child with the break up of the nucleus family unit. Socialists did that decades ago, in their plans for NWO, removed support for the 2 heterosexual parents to raise children. Even today it's found that THAT environment is still the best.

The guy was mentally ill. His school mates knew it. The administrations knew it. They wouldn't let him carry a back pack in school because once he had bullet fragments in it. Students knew he killed his dog, loved to kill frogs etc. His FB page talked of shooting. When in school he threatened other students. It was known he had firearms in the home.

His adoptive mother died last year.

The FBI failed us again.

[Staff edit]. First, even if this person had made direct threats against the school, it would not be the FBI investigating, it would have been local law enforcement. Second, we don't investigate people because people find them "creepy" or "disturbed;" instead we have this idea that people are innocent until proven guilty. Instead, there must be clear evidence that he intends to shoot up a school, or an actual crime committed, before police can investigate. I've seen nothing indicating that there was cause for the police to get a warrant.

As for the family unit, [staff edit] (other than noting that Christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists), what is your plan to fix the issue? Are you going to remove children from single parent homes -- something that causes as much or more damage than the child being raised by a single parent? Are you going to force single parents to marry? Ban divorce? It also begs the question, with other western nations having similar rises in single parent homes, why is the violence only occurring in the US -- if single parenting is the major cause?

Unfortunately, I do think we'll get a lot of politicians, from both parties, offer up their pet issue as to why it occurred, as well as blaming the "other side." In the end, no one will actually look at why these school shootings keep occurring and what steps we actually should be taking to stop them.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Congress is full of useless harlots for the NRA. That fact has to be addressed before any discussion of updated policy is even meaningful.

 

[Rion]

Your citation skills are lacking, what specific point from this article are you attempting to highlight (I can tell research is not part of your background)?

Leaving aside your poor human interaction skills (and if I noticed, then that's saying something) I was actually referring to an article in a journal, and happened to mistakenly deleted part of the reference.

Arceneaux, K., & Vander Wielen, R. J. (2013). The effects of need for cognition and need for

affect on partisan evaluations. Political Psychology, 34(1), 23-42.

Rather emotional response coming from you -- ignoring all the talking that's been said about more extensive background checks, tighter security regulations, screenings for mental illnesses...

Seems like when people start talking, all that cognition goes out the window and all you hear is "ban guns! ban guns!"

Where was this done in the thread?

 

[SummerMadness]

Leaving aside your poor human interaction skills (and if I noticed, then that's saying something) I was actually referring to an article in a journal, and happened to mistakenly deleted part of the reference.

Arceneaux, K., & Vander Wielen, R. J. (2013). The effects of need for cognition and need for

affect on partisan evaluations. Political Psychology, 34(1), 23-42.

This is not how you cite an article... if there is a particular point you're trying to make, you speak about the idea from that article, not simply give an article name.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Why are there so many school shootings in the United States? It appears like school shootings are overwhelmingly an America phenomenon. Why is that if it isn't because of the wide availability of firearms? I'm not very knowledgeable about gun laws or the differences between say the US and Canada. It appears like Canada has had 19 shootings between 1884-2016 according to Wiki. Why are schools shootings so prevalent in the United States?

What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer

When the world looks at the United States, it sees a land of exceptions: a time-tested if noisy democracy, a crusader in foreign policy, an exporter of beloved music and film.

But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles America’s fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?

Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

 

[SummerMadness]

View attachment 220681

What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer

Thank you. See this is a citation, a plot as well as text considered important posted with the article. The article has many other points, but the salient point being argued here is that the number of guns circulating in the United States has a relationship to the number of mass shooters in the country. Of course we can debate that, but the article does talk about other factors thrown out there that don't appear to be explain the problem in the US, but the main point is it wasn't just a link with no information than a name.