20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[BABerean2]

Looking at 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, that prophecy isn't symbolic al all, it describes the Sixth Seal Lord's Day of wrath by fire and then how He will be revealed to His faithful people. Revelation 14:1 and Isaiah 24:23 parallel this.

It parallels with 2 Peter 3:10-13, where Peter was looking for the New Heavens, and the New Earth.


.

 

[sovereigngrace]

and we are looking at it as God's word and what will actually happen, rather than making it abstract so we can try to apply PROPHECY written in 90+ AD to events that happened in the 30's-70AD.
We read scripture get our world view from it. You take your world view and jam it into scripture any way you can make it fit, stretching and pulling, contracting and cramming where you see fit.

We look at Revelation 20 and apply it to our theology.
You look at Revelation 20 and attempt to ignore it as much as possible and attempt to fit a square peg in a round hole, forcing a theological view on it rather than adapting your theological view in light of it.

You obviously do not know what I believe. I am not a Preterist. I believe that Revelation is a number of figurative parallels relating to the intra-advent period. The time period relates to the past, present and future.

 

[sovereigngrace]

It parallels with 2 Peter 3:10-13, where Peter was looking for the New Heavens, and the New Earth.


.

Amen bro.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Symbols have a basic meaning, they must refer to some kind of actual situation.
Looking at 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, that prophecy isn't symbolic al all, it describes the Sixth Seal Lord's Day of wrath by fire and then how He will be revealed to His faithful people. Revelation 14:1 and Isaiah 24:23 parallel this.

Yes, some event, situation or spiritual reality. But it is not the symbol that is the main issue, it is the meaning behind that really matters. It is the same with any figurative passage.

 

[keras]

It parallels with 2 Peter 3:10-13, where Peter was looking for the New Heavens, and the New Earth. .

2 Peter 3 is a chapter that covers from now until Eternity. Now; the scoffers who say nothing will change, until after the Millennium; the NH, NE.

But 2 Peter 3:7 is the parallel to 2 Thess 2:7-8; the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide devastation, by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1, Psalms 50:1-3, +

 

[BABerean2]

But 2 Peter 3:7 is the parallel to 2 Thess 2:7-8; the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide devastation, by fire from the sun.

The fire is from the Son, instead of the sun, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.


.

 

[sovereigngrace]

2 Peter 3 is a chapter that covers from now until Eternity. Now; the scoffers who say nothing will change, until after the Millennium; the NH, NE.

But 2 Peter 3:7 is the parallel to 2 Thess 2:7-8; the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide devastation, by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1, Psalms 50:1-3, +

These passages prove that the second coming is the end. It is climactic. There are no survivors. You are foisting your own theology on the sacred text.

 

[keras]

The fire is from the Son, instead of the sun, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 .

Wrong.
A direct contradiction of Isaiah 30:26a.

The Lord will use His creation; the sun to literally fulfil all the prophesies about His terrible Day of vengeance and wrath.
If He used His own glory, that would mean there is no choice as to whether there is a God or not. We know there is still a choice after the Day of fiery wrath, as people will discount this devastating sunstrike, as a natural event and worship the leader of the World Government. Revelation 13

These passages prove that the second coming is the end. It is climactic. There are no survivors. You are foisting your own theology on the sacred text.

Again wrong.
When Jesus Returns, He will kill the attacking army ay Armageddon. That's all.
He will separate the nations, the people groups; into two types - sheep; who obey Him and goats; those who still require correction. They will come, at least send a delegation to Jerusalem every year. Zechariah 14:16-21

Living mortal humans will go into the Millennium. Proved by Isaiah 65:20

 

[BABerean2]

Living mortal humans will go into the Millennium. Proved by Isaiah 65:20

Why did you rip this one verse out of its context to make your doctrine work?

The beginning of the passage is clearly referring to the New Heavens and the New Earth.

There is no "weeping" in verse 19, but you think people will still be dying in verse 20?
The beginning of verse 20 is a negative statement. None of the things that follow the word "thence" will be found in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

The passage finishes with the end of the curse. When the curse is ended there can be no more death.

Context, context, context...


.

 

[keras]

Context, context, context...

Sequence of events....... and correct placement of the prophesies.
Isaiah 65:17 refers to Eternity, that comes after the Millennium.
Isaiah 65:18-25 refer to the Millennium period.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Sequence of events....... and correct placement of the prophesies.
Isaiah 65:17 refers to Eternity, that comes after the Millennium.
Isaiah 65:18-25 refer to the Millennium period.

You have to say that to sustain Premil. But it is not what the text says.

 

[BABerean2]

Sequence of events....... and correct placement of the prophesies.
Isaiah 65:17 refers to Eternity, that comes after the Millennium.
Isaiah 65:18-25 refer to the Millennium period.

You are claiming...No weeping in verse 19, but death in verse 20, and no curse in verse 25...


You could never sell that to an unbiased witness.



.

 

[keras]

You are claiming...No weeping in verse 19, but death in verse 20, and no curse in verse 25...


You could never sell that to an unbiased witness. .

Isaiah himself says the prophesies are mixed up; a little here, a little there.
Isaiah 65:17 says there will be a new heavens and a new earth...
Isaiah 65:18 ...we should rejoice to this prospect.

Isaiah 65:19-25 describes how the Lord's faithful people will live in Jerusalem, the holy Land and will prosper; neither hurt nor harm will be done in My holy place.
At last; His people, in His holy Land, BEFORE Jesus Returns. Zechariah 8:1-8, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

 

[sovereigngrace]

You are claiming...No weeping in verse 19, but death in verse 20, and no curse in verse 25...


You could never sell that to an unbiased witness.



.

Exactly. It does not fit!

 

[sovereigngrace]

Sequence of events....... and correct placement of the prophesies.
Isaiah 65:17 refers to Eternity, that comes after the Millennium.
Isaiah 65:18-25 refer to the Millennium period.

That doesn't make any sense. Isaiah 65:17-25 is describing the eternal state. Isaiah 65:17 says, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

God creates new heavens and a new earth. This is a new creation. This is the beginning of the eternal state.

You still haven't explained Isaiah 65:19: “the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.”

How can Isaiah 65:19 relate to a future millennium when there is still the bondage of corruption (sin, war, hatred, death) on the Premil new earth? Please explain this. You are avoiding addressing the flaws in your argument.

There can be no more tears during the whole duration of their supposed future millennial kingdom. Not another tear from a mother in childbirth, nor another cry from a child receiving correction, no more weeping from the penitent sinner under conviction, no more mourning during bereavement. Evidently, weeping and tears either terminate on the new earth or they don’t. In the Premillennial new earth, tears not only continue but abound. In fact, as long as sin persists tears accompany its continued existence.

 

[keras]

How can Isaiah 65:19 relate to a future millennium when there is still the bondage of corruption (sin, war, hatred, death) on the Premil new earth? Please explain this. You are avoiding addressing the flaws in your argument.

Revelation 20 describes a Millennium of living in righteousness, and Godliness. Zechariah 14:16-21, as Satan remains bound.
But at the end of the 1000 years, Satan will be released and he will again seduce many peoples.
After that, God will Judge everyone who has ever lived and those whose names are in the book of Life will receive immortality. Only then will Death be no more and all tears wiped away. Revelation 21:1-7, Revelation 7:15-17

 

[sovereigngrace]

Revelation 20 describes a Millennium of living in righteousness, and Godliness. Zechariah 14:16-21, as Satan remains bound.

Really?

Where does Zechariah 14:16-21 mention a future millennium? Where does it teach "Satan remains bound"?

Could any Premil please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (the two main often-presented Premil proof texts)?

But at the end of the 1000 years, Satan will be released and he will again seduce many peoples.
After that, God will Judge everyone who has ever lived and those whose names are in the book of Life will receive immortality. Only then will Death be no more and all tears wiped away. Revelation 21:1-7, Revelation 7:15-17

This faulty picture that Premils think up will never happen. Where does Rev 20 speak of "a Millennium of living in righteousness." It is not in the text.

The reality is: we are in the millennium/Satan's little season now. The GWT judgment is about to happen.

 

[keras]

Really?

Where does Zechariah 14:16-21 mention a future millennium? Where does it teach "Satan remains bound"?

Could any Premil please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (the two main often-presented Premil proof texts)?

This faulty picture that Premils think up will never happen. Where does Rev 20 speak of "a Millennium of living in righteousness." It is not in the text.

The reality is: we are in the millennium/Satan's little season now. The GWT judgment is about to happen.

Yes, really. Because Jesus will be the Ruler over all the world.
Zechariah 14:1-21, is a sequence of events. Starting when the AC conquers the Christian people, as Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 say.
Then Jesus Returns, wipes out the attacking armies of Satan and chains him up. Paralleled in Revelation 19:11-21. Then the Millennium commences, as described.

The Amill idea is a false belief, as we are still in the same situation as when Jesus departed 1990 years ago.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yes, really. Because Jesus will be the Ruler over all the world.
Zechariah 14:1-21, is a sequence of events. Starting when the AC conquers the Christian people, as Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 say.
Then Jesus Returns, wipes out the attacking armies of Satan and chains him up. Paralleled in Revelation 19:11-21. Then the Millennium commences, as described.

The Amill idea is a false belief, as we are still in the same situation as when Jesus departed 1990 years ago.

That is all personal opinion. You are totally avoiding the questions. That is because there is absolutely no correlation between Zech 14 and Rev 20.

 

[Timtofly]

That is all personal opinion. You are totally avoiding the questions. That is because there is absolutely no correlation between Zech 14 and Rev 20.

All teaching is personal opinion. Saying Zechariah 14 does not agree with Revelation 20 is your opinion. They match up in my opinion. Is this a democracy where the majority opinion wins? The Millennium starts the day after the 1 hr. Battle of Armageddon. The restoration is done by God. It is not like the electric company which has to wade through tons of red tape to restore power to a subdivision that just got destroyed in a category 5 tornado. The damage will be even more severe and widespread. Only God will be able to restore life on earth after Armageddon.