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Featured 17 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by sovereigngrace, May 15, 2020.

  1. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Since abandoning Premil I have engaged in many debates/discussions on the matter of the second coming, end-times and the here-after. These are some of the major weaknesses I find in the Premil doctrine, and are strong reasons why I believe the dogma should be rejected.

    (1) Premil is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine.


    (2) Premil hangs its doctrine on a very precarious frayed thread: that of Revelation 20 following Revelation 19 chronologically in time. To hold this, it has to dismiss the different recaps (or different camera views pertaining to the intra-Advent period) that exist throughout the book of Revelation, divorce it from repeated Scripture on this matter and also explain away the clear and explicit climactic detail that pertains to Revelation 19. Premil is dependent upon the dubious premise that Revelation 20 is chronological to Revelation 19. That is it! Disprove that and Premil falls apart.

    (3) The detail Premil attributes to Revelation 20 compared to what the actual text explicitly says is day and night. Revelation 20 does not remotely say what Premil attribute to it. Many extravagant characteristics, events and ideas are inserted into Revelation 20 that do not exist in the said chapter.

    (4) Premil's interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts numerous explicit climactic Scripture.

    (5) Premil is always explaining away the clear and explicit New Testament Scripture (the fuller revelation) by the shadow, type and vaguer Old Testament. It uses indistinct or misunderstood Old Testament Scripture to negate and reject clear and explicit New Testament Scripture that teaches otherwise. We Christians have the benefit of the New Testament to explain what is difficult or obscure in the Old Testament. Christ has superseded the old covenant arrangement and now fulfils the new covenant arrangement as predicted. The New Testament is the greater revelation. The interpretation placed on the Old Testament by Christ and the New Testament writers override all other opinions and interpretations of man. As Augustine wrote: “The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed, the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.”

    (6) Premil spiritualizes the literal passages and literalizes the spiritual passages. Their hyper-literalistic approach to highly-figurative Revelation is a case-in-point.

    (7) Premil lacks corroboration for all its fundamental beliefs on Revelation 20. Whether you look at the binding of Satan, the release of Satan 1,000 years after the second coming, the restoration of animal sacrifices in an alleged future millennium, a thousand years of peace, perfection and prosperity, two different judgment days, two different resurrection days, the rebellion of the wicked at the end of the millennium, these enjoy no other support in Scripture. I struggle with this, because the only way to authenticate and understand any doctrine is interpret it with other Scripture.

    (8) Because these thousand years cannot be found anywhere else in Scripture, apart from the highly symbolic Revelation 20, Premil is forced to insert a thousand years in text after text where it doesn't exist. Objective Bible students should struggle with building their eschatology on the 3rd last chapter of the Bible, in a highly figurative setting, especially when we are supposedly talking about the 2nd greatest age ever. The scriptural silence elsewhere speaks loud to most of us!

    (9) Premil is constantly exalting the power and influence of Satan and diluting the sovereign power and influence of Christ. That is nowhere more evident than in their constant rubbishing of Christ’s current kingship over His enemies at the right hand of majesty on high. Whether they mean to or not, Premils are always highlighting what Satan is doing in our day instead of what Christ is doing. Premil portrays a BIG devil and a small god; Scripture presents a small devil and a BIG God. In Premil, Satan seems sovereign in this age and God is curtailed. Premils are always lauding the ability of Satan since the cross. In Scripture, Christ is sovereign and Satan is curtailed. Scripture is always lauding the ability of Christ since the cross. As a consequence, Premil portrays an impotent beat-down New Testament Church, whereas Scripture sees a victorious potent New Testament Church invading the nations with the good news of Christ and subjugating the powers of darkness as they do so. In Scripture Christ reigns over all creation as God and His new creation as Saviour.

    (10) Another major error that Premil makes is that it constantly presents the Old Testament as if the new covenant has never arrived. It is as if Jesus Christ has not come and fulfilled the old imperfect typical arrangement and introduced the new perfect eternal arrangement. It is as if the Old Testament promises have not been interpreted by the New Testament writers. What Premils insist is literal, physical, visible and earthly, the New Testament writers interpret as figurative, spiritual, invisible and heavenly. What Premils locate in their supposed future millennium, the New Testament writers locate in our current intra-Advent period.

    (11) Because Premil lacks any corroboration in Scripture for a future 1,000 years’ age after the second coming, it invents 2 “last days” periods to allow Premil to fit. Mark 1 now, and Mark 2 after the second coming. Premils also invent 2 new heavens and new earths. Mark 1 they relate to their alleged future millennium and is sin-cursed and corrupt. Mark 2 is perfect and incorrupt and they equate it to 1,000 years+ after this.

    (12) Premillennialists cannot even agree on the timing of the arrival of the new heavens and the new earth. They are split on whether Revelation 21 comes chronologically after Revelation 20 and therefore after the millennium kingdom and Satan’s little season in time or whether it is synonymous to that much-debated chapter and that the new heavens and new earth appears at the start of the millennium. This exposes another major weakness in the Premillennial camp: if they cannot even agree on something so simple and elementary as this in their main proof text, how can we trust their chronological approach to Revelation 19 and Revelation 20?

    (13) Premil invents a 3rd group of humans that Scripture knows nothing of, that are too wicked to be raptured at the second coming and too righteous to be destroyed. It is these mortals, they argue, who populate their alleged future millennial earth. The reality is there are only two peoples in this world – the righteous and the unrighteous; those "in Adam" (the 1st birth) and those "in Christ" (2nd birth).

    (14) Premil has an unhealthy obsessive focus on natural Israel, wrongly believing her to be God’s chosen people today under the new covenant. As a result, they have a mistaken fixation with natural Jerusalem in the Middle East, as if it is the epicentre of God’s workings with mankind on this earth and the place of His unconditional favour. This is wrong! They ignore much Scripture that shows that the fig tree has been cut down, the kingdom of God has been removed from Israel. Ancient Jerusalem and the temple therein was merely an Old Testament imperfect shadow of the heavenly reality that was revealed at the first advent. The New Testament repeatedly teaches that we have become one with spiritual believing Israel in the OT. It makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one new man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time!

    (15) General unqualified phrases like “all,” “all nations,” “the living and the dead,” “every man,” “every one,” “men,” “man,” “all men every where,” “the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great,” “all that dwell upon the earth … whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,” “they that dwell on the earth … whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,” “the world,” “the whole world” and “all the world,” that objective and impartial Bible students acknowledge embrace the whole human race are redefined and explained away to let Premil fit. This shows that the Premil’s boast that they are literalists is inaccurate.

    (16) Premil takes common linguistic terms that are easily understood by the unindoctrinated observer in any language to mean the opposite to what they actually say. For example, Premil does not believe that "first" means first and "last" means last. The English words “first” and “last” are taken from the Greek words protos and eschatos and are widely accepted by all unbiased theologians to denote exactly what they say. The word protos means first, as in the foremost in time, place, order or importance. The word eschatos on the other hand means end, last, farthest and final. It is explicitly clear from their usage, meaning and context in the New Testament that these words are the exact antithesis of each other.

    (17) Premil does not believe that “the end” refers to the end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It is the termination point of a thing. When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then most sane theologians agree it is talking about “the beginning” of creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason I believe is because it cuts across a lot of their end-time theology they have been taught. But I believe we should treat both sayings similarly. Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).
     
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  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Great synopsis, brother. Some of what you list is characteristic exclusively of dispensational premil, which has long deplorably overpowered historic premil.

    Amil and historic premil, other than disagreement over the millennium, are much closer to each other than either is to dispen premil. For example, Justin Martyr, an historic premil, declared Christians to be the "true Israelitic race".

    I'm personally amil, like yourself, but have known and fellowshipped warmly with historic premils. There aren't too many of them around any longer, however.

    Dispen premil, with its racist "gospel" and modernist futurized fantasies and fallacies, is the common but odious outlier.
     
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  3. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    I come to these conclusions after engaging on a strong Historic Premil website for 10 years. I believe these apply to most Premillennialists.
     
  4. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I for one have given you numerous chances to disprove exactly that. I proposed, that according to Revelation 20:4, the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 is already fulfilled and in the past before satan is ever loosed from the pit. In order for your version of Amil to even work, the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 needs to occur during satan's little season after the thousand years. Totally impossible according to Revelation 20:4 and the following---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

    When did these martyrs not do these things? How can it not be during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13? And this is already true of these martyrs before satan is ever loosed from the pit. Obviously, they are martyred during a time when satan is not in the pit. And since it can't be meaning after the thousand years, since they have already been matyred before that time, it can then only be meaning before the thousand years when they are martyred.

    That adds up to your position chronologically having to be the following per A), though those not paying attention probably didn't notice you are placing the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 where it can't possibly fit, B) your position.


    A) The 42 month reign of the beast, followed by the thousand years, followed by satan's little season, followed by the 2nd coming. That would have to be the chronology according to Revelation 20:4, assuming you are correct to place the thousand years prior to the 2nd coming.

    But you instead would have us believe the chronology is the following instead, therefore placing the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 where it can't possibly fit.

    B)The thousand years, followed by satan's little season, his little season meaning the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13, followed by the 2nd coming.

    The 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 is not after the thousand years, it's before the thousand years, and Revelation 20:4, for one, proves it.

    I could be wrong, but I'm almost willing to bet, that Preterists who are also Amil, that none of them, or very few of them in the case there are some, would also not place the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13, after the thousand years where it doesn't belong and can't fit. Yet you do, then expect some of the rest of us to believe your Amil interpretation is the correct one.
     
  5. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    A lot of what you say concerns the wrong way people have present the topic. However it in no way diminishes the truth that the Lord Jesus Christ will in the Father`s appointed time bring judgment upon the last Gentile Rulership and then proceed to put down all rule and authority in the age to come.

    `(the Father) seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named in this age BUT ALSO IN THAT WHICH IS TO COME.` (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)
     
  6. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    We also need to remember that when the Lord ascended to the Father`s right hand he sent His Holy Spirit to guide the believers in all the truth.

    Thus we need to carefully divide the word of truth so as to correctly understand what God the Father is revealing of His Son and His purpose through Him to us.
     
  7. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    First, as is your custom, you totally avoid the subject at hand. I wonder why???

    Second, many have addressed your theory and exposed the error of your argument, yet you refuse to accept it. Your struggle therefore is with Scripture.

    Third, you deny the existence of the beast in John's day, even though he testifies of the same. He does the same re antichrist. Paul does the same re the mystery of iniquity. Satan and the beast have existed for thousands of years albeit in a restrained manner from the cross.

    Fourth, you refuse to see the correlation between Satan's little season (Revelation 20) and 42 month reign of the beast (Revelation 13) before the second coming.
     
  8. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    He puts down all rule and authority AT the second coming. There is no wicked in the age to come!

    1 Corinthians 15:12-14, 21-24, asking, “how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain…But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

    The “coming” of the Lord, described in this reading, is here carefully located at “the end.” In fact, the whole tenure of the passage is distinctly pointing to a climactic time in history when God separates righteousness and wickedness forever. It is the occasion approaching when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power.” Simultaneously, the glorification of the kingdom of God sees the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. It is the end-game for Satan and the conclusion of his evil efforts to obstruct the plan of God for mankind. Wickedness has finally and eternally been abolished.
     
  9. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    `Then comes the end,` (1 Cor. 15: 24) refers to a setting out over a period of time.

    I agree there will be no rebellious in the new heavens and new earth - eternity.

    However we know that the numeral 7 in Biblical numerology means completion, then we still have a ways to go till this ole earth is 7000 years old. People are still going to want there own way and thus that needs to be addressed as God`s word says.
     
  10. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    ... but where in Scripture does it say this earth has to be 7000 years old? Many young earthers say this earth is over 6000 years old now. Most say we are between 6000 and 10000 years old.

    Premils in history have a habit of extending time every time we break through their new 6000 year concept. If we take the latest blueprint we are 20 years into the millennium. Needless to say they will now change that to suit their theology. That is not the way truth works!
     
  11. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    You forget that God`s measurements are by the lunar months - 30 days. You are referring to the solar calendar.
     
  12. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    So, what year are we? Premils keep changing it when time keeps blowing apart their theories.
     
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  13. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    People maybe wrong but God`s word tells us that 7 means completion. And that obviously is not yet.
     
  14. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    The 7th day had no end. It is eternal.
     
  15. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    No it is the 8th day for that is New beginnings.
     
  16. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    The 7th day had no end. It is eternal. The 7th day for the Church was also considered the 8th. It overlapped the Jewish Sabbath with the Roman day.
     
  17. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    The 7th day did end and rotated even now. The 8th day is the Day of God, as 2 Peter 3: 10 - 12 tells us.

    God`s Prophetic Calendar.

    1. Day of Christ.
    2. Day of the Lord.
    3. Day of God.

    Each are for specific purposes.
     
  18. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    These are referring to the one final future climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Pretrib is an extra-biblical doctrine supported by no inspired writer.
     
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  19. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    And - God the Father....` may send Jesus Christ who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.` (Acts 3: 20 & 21)
     
  20. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    That passage proves Amillennialism, and exposes the Pretrib theory. Amils agree with Scripture that the second coming will see "the restoration of all things." Premils believe it will see "the restoration of some things." The new world/age you promote is more of the same: more sin, more death, more corruption, more injustice, more darkness, more unrighteousness, more war and terror, more rapes, more tears, more funerals, more thefts, more heartache, more betrayals, more bondage. The Amil new earth is vastly superior to that of Premil, and, most importantly that it is the view of Scripture and that it alone can be corroborated by numerous Scripture.
     
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