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Featured 13 Reasons not to pray through Virgin Mary

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by JOYFUL-ONE, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    This is always the problem when talking with a Catholic. They/You make a comment with the intent of making it a real truthful comment.

    The example is the post you just made. The Bible truth is that there is not one single Scripture that suggests John the Baptist was born without sin.

    If it were true, in any why, how would you then explain Romans 3:23........
    "ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

    By the way, that verse means the Mary was a sinner and needed a Saviour as well.
     
  2. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. So, will God be in the presence of sin?
     
  3. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    What does that passage say on the matter?
     
  4. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Paul said "All have sinned." But it isn't true. ALL have not sinned. Babies have not sinned.

    To sin is to willfully commit an immoral act. Babies, born with original sin, have committed no act of sin. None. Neither have 1, 2, 3, 5 month-olds. Nor 1 year olds. They do not have consciousness of right and wrong when they are very little. They do not sin, and they have not sinned. They're not yet capable of sin.

    So, "All have sinned", taken literally, is a false statement.
    Pushed as a fact, it is a lie.

    If Paul is read simplemindedly, then Paul's statement is false, and he should have known that.

    But Paul is not saying "All have sinned" to make an absolute statement of scientific fact. Yes, that is what he wrote. He was referring to a psalm, in the same way that Jesus referred to a psalm, and did not mean that God, his Father, had literally forsaken him on the Cross.
     
  5. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    It tells me that God can and will be in the presence of sin, of course.

    It is a doctrine of many that God cannot be in the presence of evil or of sin, that he cannot look upon sin, etc.

    Obviously you do not believe that doctrine, which is good, because it's a load of hooey.

    I was looking for those who say that God cannot be in the presence of sin, for I have encountered many who have told me this over the year.
     
  6. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Well said my friend.
     
  7. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    72 hours??? Wow! Every 90 days is my reading schedule
     
  8. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    2,000,000,000 people are in for a surprise, eh?
     
  9. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Major1, just curious; is the typo above yours or is it from a cut and paste source?

    Secondly/additionally, just for grins I went to page 138 of the Catechism and that quote isn't there at all. Mistake? Different version of the catechism?
    In the version I checked, on page138 of the Catechism the topic is the Holy Trinity. I quickly scanned the section and I saw no mention of Mary between pages 120 and 150 - at all.

    - note, I'm not saying the the RCC doesn't have beliefs regarding Mary - just that your source material, whether original or copy/paste seems to be flawed making the verification of your comments nearly impossible-
     
  10. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, paragraph 493. Catechism of the Catholic Church - "Conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary"
     
  11. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member Supporter

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  12. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    I just slapped the quote in Google and out came the Vatican site. Thought it may prove helpful.
     
  13. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    It is without challenge that Mary is the direct earthly ancestor of Jesus in regards to his humanity. However there are many other ancestors alongside Mary that we should perhaps give equal honour for that humanity.
    Take note that if a single one of those ancestors had died before having children, then Mary would never ever have existed!
    Other significant ancestors of Jesus can be found in the genealogy of Matthew. As Jesus, Mary and Joseph are descendants of King David, I've just extracted that small part.-

    Matt1v5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,


    Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,

    Obed the father of Jesse, v6 and Jesse the father of King David.

    David was the father of Solomon, whose mother (Bathsheba) had been Uriah’s wife,

    Thus in the direct blood line leading to Jesus we have
    the harlot Rahab, a Moabite called Ruth, and an adulteress called Bathsheba. Ooops!
    All of whom were absolutely necessary for Jesus to be born of Mary.

    Now for interest, if we really want to explore faithfulness we should look at Rahab. She was a prostitute in the Canaanite capital city, hardly a place to find her creator God, but she did. Her confession of faith in the God of Israel is truly profound.
    In comparison to Rahab, Mary was born with a silver spoon in her mouth!

    Joshua2v11And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for Yahweh your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. 12Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by Yahweh, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token: 13And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. 14And the men answered her, Our life for yours, if ye utter not this our business. And it shall be, when Yahweh hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee.
    If you insist on venerating people, you should have the decency to place a certain prostitute on the pedestal alongside Mary, and thank her equally for the role she played in the humanity of Jesus.
    If as you insist, Mary was the mother of God, then the prostitute was the ancestral grandmother of God!
     
  14. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Jesus once said "has the greater sin". I still believe sin is sin. Yet makes me think on how some treat Mary greater because of Jesus. Though I do not agree with many things the Catholic Church says and does. The question I get is, and with out just popping out some verse. Why are you right and their wrong? You stand together and.. why are you right and their wrong? I don't think most really truly know the answer to this.

    And if I am not anyones god. Nor there judge. I, like someone once said and agree with "cant' they be right about Jesus just wrong about Mary?" And then.. I do know MANY Catholics that reverence God and Mary.. but Jesus is the only way to the Father. I think one has to KNOW why your right...and then.. it HAS TO BE God.. the sweet sweet Holy Spirit that leads one to speak. With them I always get "reverence"... And HE LOVES THAT!

    this kind of thread I don't see bashing.. but reminds me when this young guy found out I once took Judo. Keep saying lol to me "you have a demon". Nothing I could say.. would change what he keep saying. He was right period. Is JESUS the way the truth and the life? Is Jesus the only way to the Father? Is salvation through Christ? Always see the GOOD 1st. What GOOD do they do? Same with if we were talking WORD OF FAITH.. ouch lol.. they you dont answer to me.. if you think ANYONE is in error.. pray for them.. to the Father.. the only one that sees the heart and can fix ANYTHING.. I always pray "Father change ME 1st".. then.. TRY to pray about others
     
  15. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Your post is balanced and makes some fair comment.

    You do ask if Catholics actually worship Mary.

    One thing I have seen for myself in a Catholic Church is that they sing hymns to Mary. I can't think of any parallel to this in Protestant practice. Why sing a hymn to Mary if she is not being worshipped?

    In this thread we have Lutherans defending the Catholic view of Mary. I've never heard Lutherans sing a hymn to Mary and I can't imagine why they would.
     
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  16. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong my friend. ALL means ALL.

    YOU when born were born with the sin nature.
    The sin nature is that aspect in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, we refer to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing.

    Proof of the sin nature abounds. No one has to teach a child to lie or be selfish; rather, we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly. Wherever people are, there is trouble. Charles Spurgeon said, “As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

    The Bible explains the reason for the trouble. Humanity is sinful, not just in theory or in practice but by nature. Sin is part of the very fiber of our being. The Bible speaks of “sinful flesh” in Romans 8:3. It’s our “earthly nature” that produces the list of sins in Colossians 3:5. And Romans 6:6 speaks of “the body ruled by sin.” The flesh-and-blood existence we lead on this earth is shaped by our sinful, corrupt nature.
     
  17. JCFantasy23

    JCFantasy23 In a Kingdom by the Sea. CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
    [​IMG]

    This thread is temporarily closed for cooldown/staff review.

    MOD HAT OFF
     
  18. .Mikha'el.

    .Mikha'el. Mod Queue Spam Troll Banner Extraordinaire! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    [​IMG] ON!

    Thread reopened!

    [​IMG] OFF!
     
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