12-year-old dies in hot car in Utah

[Rescued One]

The boy was found in the car near Roost Services, 42 N. 200 East, which provides services for individuals with developmental disabilities, according to American Fork Police Lt. Josh Christensen. He was in the care of that facility when he was left behind by a staff member, he added.

Emergency personnel received the call about 1:22 p.m. and found the boy unresponsive in the car when they arrived to the scene, Christensen said. The boy had been left in the car for upwards of two hours.
https://www.ksl.com/article/5020903...-after-being-left-in-hot-car-in-american-fork

Sad!

 

[Nithavela]

Just like every year, I feel compelled to post this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...e0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Accident or not, it is absolutely a crime and the person responsible should never be placed in the care of another ever again.

 

[Nithavela]

Accident or not, it is absolutely a crime and the person responsible should never be placed in the care of another ever again.

It is not a crime, it is something that can happen to anybody and the reflexive othering of anyone who has their child die in such a manner is one of the reasons this problem persists.

 

[Ophiolite]

I choose to call it an accident. That's because accidents, all accidents, can be prevented. @Nithavela has posted a lengthy article that explains how such accidents occur because of the limitations and operational characteristics of the human brain. If we accept that concept then the solution has to lie outwith the human brain. i.e. we cannot solve the problem through education, or legislation, etc.

Given the current state of sensors and computing power it should not be a great challenge to produce a system that would detect the presence of a passenger in a closed car and to issue an appropriate warning. You can readily imagine, in a moment or two, some of the factors that would need to be considered, so a team of experts working for months should be able to come up with a comprehensive solution.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It is not a crime, it is something that can happen to anybody and the reflexive othering of anyone who has their child die in such a manner is one of the reasons this problem persists.

The problem persists because not everyone is fit to care for others.

 

[Nithavela]

The problem persists because not everyone is fit to care for others.

Current scientifical research says that by this standard, nobody is fit to care for others.

 

[Nithavela]

I choose to call it an accident. That's because accidents, all accidents, can be prevented. @Nithavela has posted a lengthy article that explains how such accidents occur because of the limitations and operational characteristics of the human brain. If we accept that concept then the solution has to lie outwith the human brain. i.e. we cannot solve the problem through education, or legislation, etc.

Given the current state of sensors and computing power it should not be a great challenge to produce a system that would detect the presence of a passenger in a closed car and to issue an appropriate warning. You can readily imagine, in a moment or two, some of the factors that would need to be considered, so a team of experts working for months should be able to come up with a comprehensive solution.

I've read somewhere that there were some systems like that already developed, but people wouldn't buy cars with them (even at the same price as cars without them) because they disliked the implication that something like this could happen to them.

How 4 technologies designed to prevent hot car deaths work

 

[Ophiolite]

I've read somewhere that there were some systems like that already developed, but people wouldn't buy cars with them (even at the same price as cars without them) because they disliked the implication that something like this could happen to them.

I almost added the following observation to my post:

When people fail to use the facility, or refuse to retrofit them to older cars, etc. then one can prosecute them for crimes, because those conscious, sustainted actions have nothing to do with failure of the human memory system.

 

[Nithavela]

I almost added the following observation to my post:

When people fail to use the facility, or refuse to retrofit them to older cars, etc. then one can prosecute them for crimes, because those conscious, sustainted actions have nothing to do with failure of the human memory system.

To that, I agree, but sadly there will not be action in that direction because people reflexively go "MONSTER! EVIL! CRUCIFY HIM! THIS COULD NEVER HAPPEN TO ME!".

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Current scientifical research says that by this standard, nobody is fit to care for others.

So be it.

Sorry but I won’t budge on this one. Throw the book at them.

 

[Ophiolite]

To that, I agree, but sadly there will not be action in that direction because people reflexively go "MONSTER! EVIL! CRUCIFY HIM! THIS COULD NEVER HAPPEN TO ME!".

Sadly, you may be correct. My own reaction is "the poor man". No punishment awarded by a court will be as severe as the life sentence he will impose on himself.

 

[Nithavela]

So be it.

Sorry but I won’t budge on this one. Throw the book at them.

Everybody has to be wrong on something.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Everybody has to be wrong on something.

There’s a first time for everything

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Sadly, you may be correct. My own reaction is "the poor man". No punishment awarded by a court will be as severe as the life sentence he will impose on himself.

Should there be no legal consequences then?

 

[Nithavela]

Should there be no legal consequences then?

I could see involuntary manslaughter, but even then, criminal negilience would be hard to prove.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I could see involuntary manslaughter, but even then, criminal negilience would be hard to prove.

I don’t see how it isn’t neglectful to forget your child exists altogether. Accident or not, we can’t just say the guilt they feel is punishment enough. That’s not any standard that I know for any other crime.

 

[Nithavela]

I don’t see how it isn’t neglectful to forget your child exists altogether. Accident or not, we can’t just say the guilt they feel is punishment enough. That’s not any standard that I know for any other crime.

The question isn't if it's neglectful, the question is if it's CRIMINALY NEGLECTFUL.

Yes, that's a difference, at least in a court of law. One has to be really reckless in his actions to be counted as criminaly neglectful and not civily neglectful.

 

[Ophiolite]

Should there be no legal consequences then?

I think this occurs at present in the coroners court, where the cause of the 'accident' is identified and the culpability of the 'suspect', if any, is assessed. The modification that I think I and @Nithavela are leaning to is that any further court action and charges would be taken mindful of the issues Nithavela has highlighted.

Accident or not, we can’t just say the guilt they feel is punishment enough. That’s not any standard that I know for any other crime

You are, however, pre-judging that it is a crime. That is the point in dispute.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

This could never happen to me.

So I've always thought.

I've been a fit, loving father for 13 years. Last summer, with a lot on my mind about the pandemic, work, and many other private issues, I just briefly forgot that my then 12 year old son was sitting right next to me in the passenger seat of the car. I was completely lost in thought and worry, that when I got out of the car in the gas station parking lot, and then heard his door shut as he said something, I stopped and just looked at him, realizing I had become completely unaware of his presence. He's of sound mind and at an age to where he wouldn't have been in any real danger, but it basically did happen to me. And I got lucky. 8, 9, 10 years prior, it's likely that this would have gone very differently.