Futurist Only 12 Reasons Why the Pre-Trib Rapture Theory is a Lie

[Archmike]

12 Reasons Why the Pre-Trib Rapture and The Doctrine of Imminency is a Lie


1) The Gathering can only occur after 6 of the 7 trumps have been sounded. 1 Cor 15:52 states that the Gathering will occur at the sounding of the 7th trump.
The 6 trumps have not been sounded to date.

2) Christ’s last days on earth was an example to show us the proper orientation of the great tribulation relative to the resurrection. He was seized, imprisoned, beaten, tried, killed, and THEN resurrected, in that order. So, as per Christ's example, we shall see great tribulation before we are resurrected, or gathered.

3) All 3 of the Gospel accounts in Mt 24, Mk 13 & Lk 21 show us Christ’s words stating “after that tribulation, shall his Appearing take place”.

4) Paul states in 2 Thess 2:1-4 that The Gathering shall occur after the AOD is committed.

5) Rev 14 shows us that The Mark – as an integral part of the GT – is dispensed before The Harvest of Rev 14:14.

6) If the Elect of Christ are gathered before the GT, who is Christ talking to in Mt 24, Mk 13 & Lk 21?

7) Warnings about The Mark are repeated 7 times in The Revelation. If The Elect are not on earth during the GT, who is Christ warning 7 times ?

8) A pre-trib rapture would render The Revelation useless to Christians.

9) The AC must first wage war on Christians for 42 months, as per Dan 7:21 & 25, 8:24, 11:33-35, 12:3, 7 & 10, and Rev 12:17, along with many other passages.

10) Daniel 9:27 said that at the time of the AOD, the AC puts an end to the sacrifice. The sacrifice results from the war he conducts against Christians. Therefore, Christians are the sacrifice.

11) Common sense should dictate to anyone that no Christian, in the history of Christianity, has ever escaped trial and tribulation by resurrection or rapture. Those that have lived life as the poor in the trenches of life, know The Truth, inherently, that they will not be raptured from harm in the great tribulation.

The pre-trib rapture theory is a doctrine started by SATAN and propagated by the blind and weak in spirit.

12) This ET’s generation will be as wicked as it was in the days of Noah. Christians, also, shall generally be less worthy of inclusion in The Elect until they have endured persecution, so that they are refined like gold, and tested in the fire of Great Tribulation.

 

[SeventyOne]

I can see you haven't studied the details of the pre-trib rapture yet.

Right out of the gate you add the 7th trump qualification to 1 Cor 15:52, which isn't there, then use the misrepresentation as an argument. Kind of makes you look a bit manipulative.

The rapture is most likely the fulfillment of the Feast of Trumpets, or the feast where no man knows the day or the hour. At that time there are 100 shofar blasts, and the 100th is known as the last trump.

Number 2 is opinion. Number 3 fails to distinguish His comings. Number 4 is a misunderstanding of the passage in the context. Number 5, Revelation 14 is not the rapture. It's a harvest of the wicked. Number 6, Jews. Number 7, everyone else on the earth. Number 8, there are still people on the earth, and a lot of them will be saved, so no, it will not be useless to Christians. Number 9, see number 8. Number 10, adding to the text, again, it doesn't say that. Number 11, that's another opinion. Number 12, and yet another opinion.

 

[Archmike]

I can see you haven't studied the details of the pre-trib rapture yet.

Right out of the gate you add the 7th trump qualification to 1 Cor 15:52, which isn't there, then use the misrepresentation as an argument. Kind of makes you look a bit manipulative.

The rapture is most likely the fulfillment of the Feast of Trumpets, or the feast where no man knows the day or the hour. At that time there are 100 shofar blasts, and the 100th is known as the last trump.

Number 2 is opinion. Number 3 fails to distinguish His comings. Number 4 is a misunderstanding of the passage in the context. Number 5, Revelation 14 is not the rapture. It's a harvest of the wicked. Number 6, Jews. Number 7, everyone else on the earth. Number 8, there are still people on the earth, and a lot of them will be saved, so no, it will not be useless to Christians. Number 9, see number 8. Number 10, adding to the text, again, it doesn't say that. Number 11, that's another opinion. Number 12, and yet another opinion.

Obviously, there isn't any use in discussion of the Rapture timing with you. You are clearly enamored with false doctrine concerning The timing of the Rapture. So, I offer you this question:

Did Christ's death and resurrection happen before or after he suffered for 3 days ? You must answer he suffered BEFORE ....Being this is TRUTH, and he is our example, then sir "71", I should suffer to follow his example, and expect that I should suffer before I am ever resurrected.

After all, part of the reason He suffered for 3 days on Earth, was to show this end times generation the proper orientation of the timing of The Rapture.

Conclusion:

Anyone who has lived their life in the trenches of life will quickly tell you that they “expect the worst, but hope and pray for the better”. Is it not advantageous and wise, therefore, for us as Christians, to expect that we will not escape pain and suffering in a coming Great Tribulation? For if we expect to escape a great tribulation, and that escape does not come, then we could be greatly disappointed, and possibly shrink from our responsibilities to witness The Truth unto our last breath. A wise person would expect that The Rapture will not come in time to save them from the pain and suffering that comes along with witnessing The Truth, but would be pleasantly surprised when he or she were to escape these terrible things, by the grace and mercy of The Father. How could we stand on an equal footing with the multitudes of unknown faithful from previous generations that preceded us, who gave their lives to the propagation of The Truth, and washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb, if we escaped pain and suffering when they didn’t? Fortunately for this generation, The Lord has foreseen the struggle before us, and has prophesied the emergence of a series of end time prophets who will awaken us to The Truth in the moment at hand. The critical question remains, however: WILL WE LISTEN?



I leave you with the words of the Apostle Paul when he warns us of the deceptions that will be prevalent in this generation concerning the return of Christ, and His Appearing for The Elect:



2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1

 

[sdowney717]

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Number 3 fails to distinguish His comings.

'His comings' , so you believe in multiple returns of Christ?
There is only a second time when Christ returns.

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

No mention of a third, fourth, fifth, sixth time of Christ's returning.

 

[SeventyOne]

Obviously, there isn't any use in discussion of the Rapture timing with you. You are clearly enamored with false doctrine concerning The timing of the Rapture.So, I offer you this question:

Did Christ's death and resurrection happen before or after he suffered for 3 days ? You must answer he suffered BEFORE ....Being this is TRUTH, and he is our example, then sir "71", I should suffer to follow his example, and expect that I should suffer before I am ever resurrected.

Conclusion:

Anyone who has lived their life in the trenches of life will quickly tell you that they “expect the worst, but hope and pray for the better”. Is it not advantageous and wise, therefore, for us as Christians, to expect that we will not escape pain and suffering in a coming Great Tribulation? For if we expect to escape a great tribulation, and that escape does not come, then we could be greatly disappointed, and possibly shrink from our responsibilities to witness The Truth unto our last breath. A wise person would expect that The Rapture will not come in time to save them from the pain and suffering that comes along with witnessing The Truth, but would be pleasantly surprised when he or she were to escape these terrible things, by the grace and mercy of The Father. How could we stand on an equal footing with the multitudes of unknown faithful from previous generations that preceded us, who gave their lives to the propagation of The Truth, and washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb, if we escaped pain and suffering when they didn’t? Fortunately for this generation, The Lord has foreseen the struggle before us, and has prophesied the emergence of a series of end time prophets who will awaken us to The Truth in the moment at hand. The critical question remains, however: WILL WE LISTEN?



I leave you with the words of the Apostle Paul when he warns us of the deceptions that will be prevalent in this generation concerning the return of Christ, and His Appearing for The Elect:



2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 12 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1

Well, you got something right. It is true there wouldn't be any use discussing rapture timing with me if all you offer is emotionally-charged opinion as evidence.

 

[SeventyOne]

'His comings' , so you believe in multiple returns of Christ?
There is only a second time when Christ returns.

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

No mention of a third, fourth, fifth, sixth time of Christ's returning.

The rapture to gather His people, and His coming to Earth with His people to establish His kingdom. That is the crux of the pre-trib rapture position he's failing to refute.

 

[Archmike]

Well, you got something right. It is true there wouldn't be any use discussing rapture timing with me if all you offer is emotionally-charged opinion as evidence.

I speak TRUTH....you just can't handle The Truth....

 

[Archmike]

For the record : There are two events in the ET's that discuss Christ events:

1. Christ APPEARS on clouds with power and great glory at The Rapture. He never touches ground.

2. Christ RETURNS to earth with his army riding on white horses at Armageddon to defeat AC and set up his earthly 1000-year kingdom.

3.5 years separate those two events.

 

[SeventyOne]

I speak TRUTH....you just can't handle The Truth....

That's funny right there.

 

[Archmike]

Well, you got something right. It is true there wouldn't be any use discussing rapture timing with me if all you offer is emotionally-charged opinion as evidence.

Can you answer my one question ?

 

[Archmike]

That's funny right there.
That movie scene did come to mind when I wrote that post ! lol

 

[SeventyOne]

Can you answer my one question ?

Seemed like a rhetorical question, but sure.

Your Question: Did Christ's death and resurrection happen before or after he suffered for 3 days ?

Answer: Christ didn't suffer for 3 days, if this is in reference to the Roman scourgings. The whole thing from the mock trial before the Sanhedrin until His death on the cross was less than 24 hours. That said, it happened before He died.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Look children, a holier then thou holly roller! Avoid these people kids!

Sarcasm aside what you said doesn't make sense to me either. But you will find out one way or the other when the rapture happens if you were right or wrong.

 

[Archmike]

Seemed like a rhetorical question, but sure.

Your Question: Did Christ's death and resurrection happen before or after he suffered for 3 days ?

Answer: Christ didn't suffer for 3 days, if this is in reference to the Roman scourgings. The whole thing from the mock trial before the Sanhedrin until His death on the cross was less than 24 hours. That said, it happened before He died.

Semantics, all....

His suffering happened before he died and was resurrected.

The golden rule of leadership is: A leader does not ask his followers to do, what he, himself, is unwilling to do.

Christ's last days on earth parallel EXACTLY what he tells ALL his followers will happen to them in Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21.

 

[SeventyOne]

Semantics, all....

His suffering happened before he died and was resurrected.

The golden rule of leadership is: A leader does not ask his followers to do, what he, himself, is unwilling to do.

Christ's last days on earth parallel EXACTLY what he tells ALL his followers will happen to them in Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21.

Except it's not all His followers at all. Most of them have already died in prior years and centuries. If going through great tribulation was a requirement for all His followers, then many of those who lived relatively comfortable lives before dying would have to have their own special resurrection prior to the Tribulation so they wouldn't miss out on all the required fun.

Either it is a requirement, or it is not.

 

[Archmike]

Look children, a holier then thou holly roller! Avoid these people kids!

Sarcasm aside what you said doesn't make sense to me either. But you will find out one way or the other when the rapture happens if you were right or wrong.

And you are speaking to....and of....who ?

 

[Archmike]

Except it's not all His followers at all. Most of them have already died in prior years and centuries. If going through great tribulation was a requirement for all His followers, then many of those who lived relatively comfortable lives before dying would have to have their own special resurrection prior to the Tribulation so they wouldn't miss out on all the required fun.

Either it is a requirement, or it is not.

I think the Olivet and Temple Discourses are quite clear....the generation that sees all the signs in the season of His return, shall suffer in a Great tribulation....period. Any attempts to change that description of Christ's words is wrong.

 

[sdowney717]

The rapture to gather His people, and His coming to Earth with His people to establish His kingdom. That is the crux of the pre-trib rapture position he's failing to refute.

Those two events are synchronous.
Example, we are to wait for His Son from heaven, meaning the 'second time' mentioned in
Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

The return of Christ means salvation for His people and wrath for the world.
That day takes the world unawares, 'thief in the night', but Paul says verse 4,

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

1 Thessalonians 5New King James Version (NKJV)
The Day of the Lord
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

Obviously there is great distress up until the end of the age, so much so that when the 'antichrist' of 2 Thessalonians 2 is revealed, people think finally peace and safety, we got this earthly deliverer from our former troubles, but with that revealing follows Christ's second coming and their certain destruction but Christian's salvation. Obviously there is the church of believers on this earth up until the very return of Christ.
Christ never spoke of a pause when He returns for the judgement of this evil world system.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18New King James Version (NKJV)
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[SeventyOne]

I think the Olivet and Temple Discourses are quite clear....the generation that sees all the signs in the season of His return, shall suffer in a Great tribulation....period. Any attempts to change that description of Christ's words is wrong.

Except for those who see the signs and then die before the tribulation actually begins, of course. In this line of thinking, they get the lucky excuse note for not showing up to the required beating.

Keep in mind, he was talking concerning a generation of people. That would be both believers and unbelievers. It changes no part of it if some are raptured out any more than if some of them die off.

 

[Archmike]

Except for those who see the signs and then die before the tribulation actually begins, of course. In this line of thinking, they get the lucky excuse note for not showing up to the required beating.

Keep in mind, he was talking concerning a generation of people. That would be both believers and unbelievers. It changes no part of it if some are raptured out any more than if some of them die off.