12 Mississippi children in ICU, 10 on ventilators

[probinson]

I see your posts still can't come clean about the tactics used earlier.

No "tactics" are being used. If your argument sounds flimsy, it's simply because you haven't supported it well.

You haven't presented mask use data, just anecdotes about what you think might have been going on.

I see projection is your strong suit, because while I have posted scads of data and analysis, you've posted nothing but anecdotes.

Yep, even during the fall 2020 to spring 2021 flu season. Cases were an order of magnitude lower than normal. Wonder what was different then.

Viral interference of COVID. Duh. You should read up on it, as it is a much more plausible

Well, anything but masks, we can't have actual evidence guide us away from the right wing "masks are fascism" rhetoric.

"Actual evidence". Thanks for the laugh.

Do you really need for me to find "actual data" to help figure out if a paper with data ending in 2018 is relevant to what happened during the pandemic?

Um, yeah. That's how science works. As much as you'd like to just toss out decades of the highest quality evidence, it doesn't work that way.

Yeah, it is a shame posts like yours are working with certain audiences. We could have beat this pandemic.

No comment on the fact that fully 77% of healthcare workers surveyed said their trust in the CDC had declined throughout the pandemic? But I suppose it's easier to just claim that I'm working with a nebulous "certain audience" than it is to address the fact that trust in the CDC had taken a beating.

An irrelevant distraction, given you're not presenting anything higher up on this thing you're claiming is the bet way to evaluate studies.

Let's be clear; the evidence pyramid (this thing?) is not how *I* claim is the best way to evaluate studies. It is how the quality of scientific evidence is always judged.

Which confirmation bias did you find in the paper I linked from Nature? Please be specific - I'm sure the editors and reviewers would love to know what they missed.

You should stop listening only to your "certain audience" and read up more. Most of these "studies" have been underpowered, have multiple flaws in their methodology, and have generated garbage data. One of the biggest casualties of the pandemic has been trust in science, and with good reason.

As much as you'd love to just write this off as me being part of a "certain audience", there are many reputable doctors, healthcare workers, epidemiologists and scientists that are calling into question many of the decisions of the CDC. But those in your "certain audience" will never admit that.

 

[probinson]

Yep, who cares if the numbers posted are false?

The numbers I originally posted were the hospitalization numbers from the US, whereas the numbers you posted were from the UK. There was nothing false.

Caring about actual facts is for people who don't already know the truth.

Keep casting those aspersions.

 

[probinson]

Are you calling the Swedish government immature, irrational and low-IQ?

Interesting point.

Sweden has taken a much more relaxed approach, not only to masking, but to mitigation measures in general. In the General Politics forum, I started a thread showing some of the guidance Sweden has. You can read the whole thing here. There's nary a mention of masks anywhere on that page;

FAQ about COVID-19 - The Public Health Agency of Sweden

As much as there is a certain group of people that wants to thump their chests and feel good that they accept The Science™ on masking while us science-denying neanderthals don't properly extol the virtues of the mask, the results are undeniable. While Sweden took a much more relaxed approach to the pandemic concerning mitigation measures and masking, they suffered fewer deaths than the US and the UK both;

 

[TLK Valentine]

Are you calling the Swedish government immature, irrational and low-IQ?

Yes.

Are you going to pretend to care?

 

[98cwitr]

Yes.

Are you going to pretend to care?

No, but I will actually care.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No, but I will actually care.

I'm sure the government of Sweden will recover from my scathing opinion of their (in)actions.

 

[98cwitr]

I'm sure the government of Sweden will recover from my scathing opinion of their (in)actions.

I'm not quite convinced they were even affected nor harmed by it.

 

[probinson]

For context, here is a list of the 37 nations that had more deaths per capita than Sweden, according to Worldometers;

Peru, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czechia, Gibraltar, San Marino, Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Brazil, Slovakia, Colombia, Argentina, Belgium, Slovenia, Italy, Croatia, Paraguay, Poland, UK, USA, Mexico, Chile, Romania, Spain, Ecuador, France, Portugal, Uruguay, Lithuania, Andorra, Moldova, Liechtenstein, Armenia, Panama, Tunisia, Bolivia.​

All of these nations have a higher mortality rate than Sweden.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'm not quite convinced they were even affected nor harmed by it.

A friend of mine once spent twenty minutes fixing the wiring in his kitchen before realizing that he forgot to switch off the breakers first. Fortunately, he fixed his mistake before electrocuting himself. He still admitted that he was an idiot for forgetting.

An idiot who doesn't hurt himself isn't smart -- he's just a lucky idiot.

 

[TLK Valentine]

For context, here is a list of the 37 nations that had more deaths per capita than Sweden, according to Worldometers;

Peru, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czechia, Gibraltar, San Marino, Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Brazil, Slovakia, Colombia, Argentina, Belgium, Slovenia, Italy, Croatia, Paraguay, Poland, UK, USA, Mexico, Chile, Romania, Spain, Ecuador, France, Portugal, Uruguay, Lithuania, Andorra, Moldova, Liechtenstein, Armenia, Panama, Tunisia, Bolivia.​

All of these nations have a higher mortality rate than Sweden.

The point being...?

 

[Kentonio]

Interesting point.

Sweden has taken a much more relaxed approach, not only to masking, but to mitigation measures in general. In the General Politics forum, I started a thread showing some of the guidance Sweden has. You can read the whole thing here. There's nary a mention of masks anywhere on that page;

FAQ about COVID-19 - The Public Health Agency of Sweden

As much as there is a certain group of people that wants to thump their chests and feel good that they accept The Science™ on masking while us science-denying neanderthals don't properly extol the virtues of the mask, the results are undeniable. While Sweden took a much more relaxed approach to the pandemic concerning mitigation measures and masking, they suffered fewer deaths than the US and the UK both;

View attachment 302845

They suffered a lot more deaths than actually comparable countries like their Scandinavian neighbours which is probably why the King of Sweden said their approach had failed. Their Prime Minister agreed.

Coronavirus: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

 

[KCfromNC]

No "tactics" are being used.

Still unwilling to fully quote my post and actually address what I really wrote? Color me surprised. That, combined with your post showing exactly zero inclination to correct false numbers used previously tells me all I need to know about the futility of this discussion.

 

[pitabread]

While Sweden took a much more relaxed approach to the pandemic concerning mitigation measures and masking, they suffered fewer deaths than the US and the UK both;

The most comparable countries would be other Scandinavian nations. And with respect to those countries, Sweden has done far worse. It makes one wonder what the situation in Sweden would have looked like if they had taken a more strict view of the pandemic. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know.

Cases per 1M

Sweden: 107,890
Denmark: 53,472
Norway: 24,783
Finland: 18,489


Deaths per 1M

Sweden: 1438
Denmark: 437
Finland: 176
Norway: 146

Source: COVID Live Update: 194,222,497 Cases and 4,163,649 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (retrieved July 24, 2021)

 

[TLK Valentine]

The most comparable countries would be other Scandinavian nations. And with respect to those countries, Sweden has done far worse. It makes one wonder what the situation in Sweden would have looked like if they had taken a more strict view of the pandemic. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know.

Cases per 1M

Sweden: 107,890
Denmark: 53,472
Norway: 24,783
Finland: 18,489


Deaths per 1M

Sweden: 1438
Denmark: 437
Finland: 176
Norway: 146

Source: COVID Live Update: 194,222,497 Cases and 4,163,649 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (retrieved July 24, 2021)

It would appear my low opinion of their actions is justified by the body count.

 

[probinson]

The most comparable countries would be other Scandinavian nations. And with respect to those countries, Sweden has done far worse. It makes one wonder what the situation in Sweden would have looked like if they had taken a more strict view of the pandemic. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know.

Cases per 1M

Sweden: 107,890
Denmark: 53,472
Norway: 24,783
Finland: 18,489


Deaths per 1M

Sweden: 1438
Denmark: 437
Finland: 176
Norway: 146

Source: COVID Live Update: 194,222,497 Cases and 4,163,649 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (retrieved July 24, 2021)

Looking at the single mortality metric of COVID deaths, Sweden didn't perform as well as their nordic neighbors. Time will tell, because the pandemic certainly isn't over.

On the other hand, overall excess mortality was much closer across the nordic countries aside from an early spike in Sweden. It will take time to analyze that data and understand what caused the excess mortality, but it's clear that these nordic countries, there were varying amounts of excess deaths, where in many months, Sweden performed considerably better than all of their nordic neighbors;

Public health is (or should be) about ALL public health outcomes. If COVID numbers are low but overall excess mortality is high, that should not be considered a success. It's equally as important to understand the collateral costs of the mitigation measures. Collateral Global is doing an excellent job compiling studies of the collateral damages of the pandemic mitigation measures. The costs have been quite high;

Home - Collateral Global

 

[Belk]

You are free to get the vaccine or not get the vaccine and then stay at home or not stay at home. But if you get the vaccine and insist that everyone else does, that’s a different story.

We are also free to decide as a society that if you do not get the vaccine we can limit your interactions with us. Freedom works both ways.

 

[Hammster]

We are also free to decide as a society that if you do not get the vaccine we can limit your interactions with us. Freedom works both ways.

Just like if your skin has a certain level of melanin, right?

 

[Belk]

Just like if your skin has a certain level of melanin, right?

Nope. Nothing like that.

 

[probinson]

We are also free to decide as a society that if you do not get the vaccine we can limit your interactions with us. Freedom works both ways.

What about people who have had prior COVID infections and possess natural immunity? Will you graciously allow them to interact with you?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

What about people who have had prior COVID infections and possess natural immunity? Will you graciously allow them to interact with you?

They don't all have "natural immunity". Most of my friends who had Covid got it early, Feb-April of last year, and don't even have the antibodies or immunity anymore. One of them even got Covid again. We had a get-together in June and one of the guys who had Covid and didn't have antibodies anymore did not come to the get-together so that the rest of us could be safe; he has since gotten the vaccine.