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*** 11th fact *** about GOD - revealed by the LAST End Time Prophet Matt Marriott

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by MattMarriott, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. Washington

    Washington Well-Known Member

    +330
    Agnostic
    Well, god was able to do it.
     
  2. juvenissun

    juvenissun ... and God saw that it was good.

    +527
    Baptist
    Married
    Agree.

    This makes me think about what is the definition of "fact".
    Definition of anything is a headache. I envy engineers. They do not have to deal with this sort of problem. The Bible says it perfectly: understanding is a burden. The more one understands, the heavier the burden becomes.
    .
     
  3. juvenissun

    juvenissun ... and God saw that it was good.

    +527
    Baptist
    Married
    I don't think so.
     
  4. Washington

    Washington Well-Known Member

    +330
    Agnostic
    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7


    .
     
  5. Nathan Poe

    Nathan Poe Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Agnostic
    US-Democrat
    Then you disagree with God Himself.

    Isaiah 45:7 -- I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
     
  6. Matthewj1985

    Matthewj1985 Well-Known Member

    +58
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Thanks for the reminder, I need to call my dealer.
     
  7. juvenissun

    juvenissun ... and God saw that it was good.

    +527
    Baptist
    Married
    That is why I asked you to define evil. You avoid this critical assignment, and ended up with giving yourself (not me) a hard time by quoting this verse.

    If you care to search, all Bible commentaries give almost the same interpretation to the verse (and the word). But, the interpretation could still be expanded by considering what does this word mean to ancient Jews.
     
  8. Nathan Poe

    Nathan Poe Well-Known Member

    +1,578
    Agnostic
    US-Democrat
    So, which word are you looking to redefine? "I," "create," or "evil"?
     
  9. Washington

    Washington Well-Known Member

    +330
    Agnostic
    No it wasn't. You weren't even aware that god had created evil. See your reply in post # 83. "I don't think so."


    "Assignment"????
    All I said was "It's always been my impression that anyone who would create evil, has to be somewhat evil himself," and you replied with a non-sequitur: "Try to define evil, then you will understand."
    Understand what? Why it's been my impression that anyone who would create evil, has to be somewhat evil himself? I know why (understand) it's always been my impression that anyone who would create evil, has to be somewhat evil himself.



    ???wha.......???????? And just what hard time do you imagine this to be? Actually, I'm quite delighted to have opened your eyes to this bit of information.



    Well, consulting Strong's, the noun ra` (rah), translated as "evil" in Isaiah 45:7, is defined as: "evil; distress, misery, injury, calamity,"
     
  10. juvenissun

    juvenissun ... and God saw that it was good.

    +527
    Baptist
    Married
    So, one more time, use your own words, what is evil?
    We have to know what it is, so we can say if God creates it or not.
     
  11. Washington

    Washington Well-Known Member

    +330
    Agnostic
    Regardless of how I might define "evil" (not that I'm about to because it's irrelevant) the word was used in Isaiah 45:7 no differently than the other words in the verse were used: to convey the concepts inherent in their Hebrew meanings, which in the case of "evil" is, "ra`." or, as Strong's tells us: "evil; distress, misery, injury, calamity,"

    So as much as you may think you're accomplishing some kind of end run around Isaiah 45:7 by this odd tactic of yours, the fact remains that the Bible tells you:


    [​IMG]

    Of course you're obviously free to define "evil" any way you wish, perhaps regarding it as a welcome benevolence bestowed on a fortunate few. Be that as it may I'm letting it stand as the baldfaced statement it is. God said he creates evil. Period. A statement with no more hidden subtext than "I eat food." God creates evil and I eat food. Simple as that.​
     
  12. MoonLancer

    MoonLancer The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar

    +150
    Buddhist
    In Relationship
    we shouldn't have to REdefine every word that's used just to so you can successfully argue your world view. If you cant argue using the English language, please don't make us change it, every time you step in one of your own traps.

    Your continual assumption that if one doesn't use their own definition for every word that they are not independent thinking is revolting. Learn the language FIRST. then argue. read a dictionary. hell read the bible. apparently you missed the part about god creating evil.

    if everyone was as independent of thinker as you juv, we wouldn't be able to communicate. ;p

    only when a word is ambiguous or has many meanings does one need to define it, or if its clear someone doesn't know its meaning. in this case, you diden't know the meaning of "fact" so i gave you a clear definition. your redefining words just to skirt issues. this isn't arguing. This if futile.

    If you cant argue like other rational humans, please stop yourself
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  13. Washington

    Washington Well-Known Member

    +330
    Agnostic
    Obviously juvenissun has found himself facing a very disquieting fact, and unable to accept it he seeks to blunt its meaning by pretending that any argument he can make against an individual interpretation of it's key element somehow stands as a valid argument against any interpretation of it. Hardly rational, but rationality is seldom a major player in personal Biblical exegesis. More often it's a matter of hammering the pieces into place no matter how ill fitting they may be. Not at all admirable, but considering the perceived import at stake it's understandable. Can't have a loving, benevolent god going around creating evil. No sireeee. Brrrrrrr!
     
  14. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Seeker for life, probably

    +269
    Seeker
    Single
    Do we have to define "peace" first too, to see if God really means it when he says "I make peace"?
     
  15. Hespera

    Hespera Junior Member

    +178
    Buddhist
    Private
    Of course he has to change the definitions (rules). He wants to refine the language before he knows even the basics to make himself comprehensible. Juv is like the kid i beat in a chess game in jr high. He countered my winning move with an illegal move, but claimed victory; he was playing by "French rules".



    One realy weird post from Juv he describes how he used to grade english papers and how there would be so much red. He made so many mistakes in the post it was tempting to do the same for him. Then he identifies someone's way of thinking as the big problem with US educaiton. Get a mirror, man!

    Av has his own charming personality. Give him something that is contradictory or unanswerable within his system, and he either ignores it or answers with some flip offhand remark for which he hopes, he says, that "you guys" will "respect" him. While specifying that he has no respect at all for anyone who is not like him a biblical absolutist.

    Everything he does, or thinks, is "we", "our" side. i guess he self- identifies as being a member of some group. Everyone else is one of "you guys". He even calls himself a scientist. Right-o.

    Its fun and challenging to actually debate with someone, sometimes I win sometimes I lose, but I always learn something. Like sometimes i learn i was wrong about something.

    Its no fun and no purpose to try to debate / discuss with Av or juv. They always fall back on their "I am right yes I know coz the bible tells me so."
    Or i am right because i defined it that i am right.

    Well, a positive thing about seeing how they operate is that i learned a bit more about how other people think, or "think", depending, you know, on how the word is defined.
     
  16. juvenissun

    juvenissun ... and God saw that it was good.

    +527
    Baptist
    Married
    If you have no problem of anything, then you can just let it go. The meaning of peace belongs to this case. (ain't broke, don't fix it). But if you are very bored, we can do that too, just for fun. And most likely, you can still learn a few things from doing that.

    If you do have problem with a word, then you NEED to define it first.

    Now, the problem is not on peace, but on evil. So we should do that.
     
  17. juvenissun

    juvenissun ... and God saw that it was good.

    +527
    Baptist
    Married
    OK, if you do not like to give your version of what evil means, then we just use what's given in Strong's concordance. There are five words in your quote. The first is the word to be defined or interpreted, I would say the other four words expressed the meaning of the word "evil".

    In that case, I have no problem with the Bible verse. God does create distress, misery, injury, and calamity.
     
  18. juvenissun

    juvenissun ... and God saw that it was good.

    +527
    Baptist
    Married
    That only means you need to be updated.
     
  19. Baggins

    Baggins Senior Veteran

    +450
    Humanist
    Married
    UK-Labour
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil

    there you go Juv.

    I must say it was hilarious to see an agnostic having to explain the bible to him

    It is also enjoyable to watch the way that everything comes down to the definitions of words with him when he has been so easily manouvered into a deep hole of lose yet again.

    It is like arguing with a physicist about the equation E=mc2 and then aguing about what the word "equals" really means.

    Brilliant stuff.
     
  20. Hespera

    Hespera Junior Member

    +178
    Buddhist
    Private

    Well yeah, that is exactly how it is. Even if he was making sense you wouldnt know it, with the scrambled English he uses.

    I wonder if he REALLY used to correct students' papers. Poor kids.

    Responding to his posts is just as nonsensical as what he writes. I'm done with it.
     
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