10 Top Errors of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture View

Oct 25, 2010
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I'm so glad you pointed that out for us. I was really concerned that we might have to go through some kind of tribulation or suffering for being Christians.
...
I’m so glad that you’ve shown we don’t have to go through tribulation, as that 20th Century business was a nasty affair. Except they didn’t get raptured but got slaughtered for being Christian… oh wait...

Read post #200
The GT is synonymous with the wrath of God, the life of a believer will be full of tribulations, the wrath of God is not one of them. It would seem everyone I am discussing with are ignoring my posts where I elaborate on this very issue
 
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LovedofHim

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Read post #200
The GT is synonymous with the wrath of God, the life of a believer will be full of tribulations, the wrath of God is not one of them. It would seem everyone I am discussing with are ignoring my posts where I elaborate on this very issue

The great tribulation is wars, famine, plagues, persecution, and martyrdom during which the church overcomes by the blood of the Lamb.
The great tribulation has been going on for 2000 years.

Rev 7:14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


The wrath of God is a final call to repentance while the earth, the systems of the world, and the people are all turned to chaos and destruction while God uses the devil to force people to make a final choice. No one overcomes by the blood of the Lamb during the time of wrath but by their works (dying as they refuse to worship the devil) will they be judged by the church and be resurrected to eternal life after Christ destroys the ungodly.



Rev 14:9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.



Rev 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
 
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The great tribulation has been going on for 2000 years.

“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.

And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book. "

"15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. "

"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation."

17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

Connect the dots.
I would argue none of the seals have been opened, but you officially cannot claim us to be past the seventh seal, meaning no matter what, the GT is not here nor has it been going on for the past "2000" years.
 
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Connect the dots.
I would argue none of the seals have been opened, but you officially cannot claim us to be past the seventh seal, meaning no matter what, the GT is not here nor has it been going on for the past "2000" years.

Exactly.........no seals have been opened. When the 1st seal is opened the antichrist will be in power.
 
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Super Kal

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now that I dont agree with... i do not agree that the first seal has to be Antichrist, because nothing in the Bible says it is... only modern futuristic opinion says that, and the one thing you should know about me, i do not hold to modern beliefs at all.
 
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The seals are not tribulation events at all, but sample portents of the same which all must be removed before the actual judgment events themselves can begin

And the first seal is not a portent of the "antichrist"

It is the spreading of the gospel of the kingdom that will take place during the tribulation period [Matthew 24:14; Revelation 6:2; 14:1-7]
 
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The coming tribulation period is the same as the 70th week of 7 years [1 heptad] duration explained in Daniel's visions [Daniel 8, 9, 12]

And it will be the generation of a returned remnant of Israel that will be in the land who will be in the vortex of the tribulation period [Jeremiah 30; Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

"70 years" for an average length a generation is not part of this time line at all

When the Lord's said "this generation" .... He speaks of those of Israel living at the time of the end of which He was asked to answer .... He just does not reveal the dating to His Israelite followers

Matthew 24 is all about His nation of Israel ..... at the time of the end which is still pending

This passage of scripture is not a focus upon today's church

However, Matthew 25:1-3 is a focus upon the church and the Lord's separation of the same into those that believe and those that profess only

Revelation 3:10 and 3:15 give this same contrast
 
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The seals are not tribulation events at all, but sample portents of the same which all must be removed before the actual judgment events themselves can begin

And the first seal is not a portent of the "antichrist"

It is the spreading of the gospel of the kingdom that will take place during the tribulation period [Matthew 24:14; Revelation 6:2; 14:1-7]


It is the antichrist. The crown given is the "stephanos" crown or leaf crown. The same crown worn by Apollo.
 
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eclipsenow

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As I just keep on saying, why all these passionate arguments about how the Revelation 'timetable' is going to work out when most of Revelation is not even in our future? Most of it is describing what the Romans were doing to the early Christians and how those Christians were to put up with it.

Prologue
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
 
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As I just keep on saying, why all these passionate arguments about how the Revelation 'timetable' is going to work out when most of Revelation is not even in our future? Most of it is describing what the Romans were doing to the early Christians and how those Christians were to put up with it.

Prologue
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.


Great point of view until Israel became a nation.
 
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eclipsenow

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Israel could build the temple and embark on a successful campaign to take over the Middle East and own all the oil. Or it could be nuked back to the Stone Age, or wither and die in some peak oil and global warming calamity. And while I would be horrified at the human suffering involved in all these scenarios, it wouldn't affect my eschatology one little bit. I'm an Amil! I don't care! Whatever Israel does from here on in is irrelevant! The prophecies that Israel would return from exile were already fulfilled before Jesus lived and died there. Then Jesus and the Apostles spiritually fulfil all promises to Israel in eschatological tension. Us Christians today are 'Israel'. Us Christians are God's people living God's way in God's land — all the earth! And yet not yet... we are not yet reigning in the New Heavens and New Earth with all God's enemies subdued. That will happen on that glorious and terrible day of the Lord, when he returns in Judgement to save his people and destroy his enemies! And it will be over in the twinkling of an eye.

So to me, the nation State of Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with biblical prophecy. Nothing, nadda, zilch, zero! It's just a quirk of history, and as important to eschatology as the new nation of South-Sudan. It's just history unfolding. We've been in the Last Days since Pentecost in Acts 2. One day the Lord will return. That's all we know! We don't know when!
 
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Super Kal

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The coming tribulation period is the same as the 70th week of 7 years [1 heptad] duration explained in Daniel's visions [Daniel 8, 9, 12]

And it will be the generation of a returned remnant of Israel that will be in the land who will be in the vortex of the tribulation period [Jeremiah 30; Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

"70 years" for an average length a generation is not part of this time line at all

When the Lord's said "this generation" .... He speaks of those of Israel living at the time of the end of which He was asked to answer .... He just does not reveal the dating to His Israelite followers

Matthew 24 is all about His nation of Israel ..... at the time of the end which is still pending

This passage of scripture is not a focus upon today's church

However, Matthew 25:1-3 is a focus upon the church and the Lord's separation of the same into those that believe and those that profess only

Revelation 3:10 and 3:15 give this same contrast
so by your opinion, the Gospel of Matthew isnt meant for us... is it?
 
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B1inHim

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Nope,
Revelation was written for now, today, "the last days"

II Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

The Revelation... was written between 76 to 90 A.D. or to put in better terms, it was written some time before the end of the first century after our Lord was murdered.

Based on the timetable that is given for our understanding by Apostle Peter.
We are just about 2 GOD DAYS since Revelation was written.

Since A.D. 70 this world has been plagued with the effects of the presence of the 1st seal.
This is not global and is not written by Father as being global in His Word.

There has never been a time in the history of mankind that 25% of all mankind was killed with Death, famine/disease, war/sword and wild animals till the very most recent past.
Today over 40% of the population dies every second. The increase is a constant 60%.

Ie; 4.2 people are born every second of every day.
1.8 people dies every second of every day
2.4 is the natural increase

1.8 out of 4.2 people are killed by Death, famine/disease, war/sword and wild animals every second of every day, today
This is global and is written by Father as being global in His Word.
World Vital Events

This planet has NEVER seen peace completely removed until September 11, 2001.
Peace is not with us now, nor will it ever return to us as it was before this date.
This is global and is written by Father as being global in His Word.

A single loaf of wheat bread or three loaves of barley bread cost a complete days wage in 3rd world countries every day, today.
This is not global, nor was it written by Father as being global in His Word.

These last three have become evidenced in the generation that we, you and I are living in, now.

That makes 4 seals as evidenced by factually based information as being a daily event, 24/7.

There are 6 seals that are opened before the 144,000 are sealed by God and the Great Multitude who come out of the Great Tribulation happens.

The one seal that we do not witness is the 5th seal.
That takes place in heaven.

Based on this information, the next seal to be opened and witnessed by the entire planet is the 6th seal.
This is global and is written by Father as being global in His Word.

Now, many of those who post on this site believe that they have a understanding of the Word and a complete interpretation that does not match the above information.

Fine.

Fine.

I am only still alive today for only one purpose and that is to prepare Fathers children for our Lord' return in the sky among the clouds.
I serve no other real purpose in this life today.

EXCEPT sharing the gospel but I count that as a "given" for anyone who claims to be a Christian.

Holy Spirit allowed me to see/be in the harpazo over 25 years ago in a Word of Wisdom Vision/Dream.

I have shared this here.

The messenger does not care if the people agree with him, he is just the messenger.

I am not equipped to know every answer to every one about everything that is in the Word.
I am equipped to to know what I was shown and understand how to clearly explain the "how" it happens and
"what" happens.

The "when" is up to Father.
This was told to us by our Lord.

This forum is full of people who are head knowledge, man made theologically indoctrinated teachers.
They teach what they have learned from other men.

Their teaching are compiled of mans theocracies handed down from one generation to the next and some of the teachings have many things that are correct.

But not any of them have it all correct, especially when it comes to the teaching of the subject that is popularly called the "RAPTURE".

Even those that believe in the harpazo timing as what I was shown, do not get all of their other understandings completely correct.

I am FAR from perfect and believe that I do not know everything there is to know about the things that are written in Fathers Word.

However, the things that I do know, did not come from a teaching that was handed down from one generation to the next.

I was allowed to receive hands on information directly from the source, God.

The signs of the times are ripe.

The "player's " are in position.

It is but a matter of seconds to several years before the 6th seal is opened.

There will be global cataclysmic devastation that will take place.

Millions if not billions of unsuspecting people will die.

The ONLY reason that is keeping the NWO to become completed is Holy Spirit.
The ONLY major nation that is direct conflict for the NWO to becoming complete is America.

Our time is short, the "day of the Lord" is nearer than many of you think.

I love and care for the safety of each and every one of and pray that you will be ready for Lord Jesus' return when it happens.

WE, most all of us here who claim the the children of God will go to be with our Lord during this Great Tribulation, which we are in now.

When did it begin?
I do not know.
But the writing is clearly written on the wall before us.

That is except for those who cannot or will not see it.

Why did God show me the harpazo?
I really do not know for sure, I didn't ask.
Could be that I am the 1st born son of a proven Prophet.
Could be that I am this and I had not been contaminated by the teachings concerning this subject.
I do not know and I really don't care to know.
That does not matter to me.

What does is serving Fathers purpose and pleasure.

DOOR #1
Ezekiel 33:1-5 (KJV)
Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, [2] Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman: [3] If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; [4] Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. [5] He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him.

But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.


DOOR #2
Ezekiel 33:6 (KJV)
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

I choose DOOR #1, the enemy is at the gate and I am blowing the trumpet, the rest is all up to you.

Matthew 24:34 (KJV)
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What generation?
The one that we are living in today.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
YouTube - The Rapture Testimony
 
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Super Kal

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oh YEAH, because you're the ONLY ONE who has been deemed WORTHY and righteous enough to know when the rapture happens...

i hear the same stuff from pre-tribbers and date-setters alike
 
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B1inHim

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oh YEAH, because you're the ONLY ONE who has been deemed WORTHY and righteous enough to know when the rapture happens...

i hear the same stuff from pre-tribbers and date-setters alike

Great, none of them can say what I do.

And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being worthy or righteous enough, it has everything to do with His will, not ours.

I feel heavy in my heart for how you interpret what I say as being righteos and "holier than thou".:preach:

You have heard the message, it is not on me to do anything more than share it, explain it and leave it at that.

The rest is all on those who have heard the trumpet.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
 
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Super Kal

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you are coming across as "holier than thou" to me... i see that in a lot of pre-tribbers and pre-wrathers. after reading a lot of your posts, it's how you're coming across, but hey, i was the exact same way once, when i foolishly believed that i was better than everyone else, God loved me more, and i was going to be secretly raptured away... of course, now, I dont.

I simply go by what the Bible says, Jerry... not Darby or Rosenthal.
no, I'm most certainly not better than anyone else, and no, i am not perfect, and i never will be perfect

if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong... nothing lost.
I'm neither stupid, arrogant, nor gullible for what the dumbed masses think... and yes, the Bride of Christ has become somewhat dumbed and dulled down for quite some time. I'm mentally, emotionally, and spiritually prepared to go through the entire thing... everywhere in scripture says it, & church history validates its doctrinal accuracy.

the question is not if i'm ready to go or not... I'll be going whenever He says we go, and I believe that to be post-trib. The question will eventually lay on your doorstep: are you ready to stay and fight rather than keep believing in a pre-wrath rapture?
 
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B1inHim

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Kal,

Above all else, I am ready.

You believe in something that is based on a formula.

I believe in something that can be seen by just following the Word verbatim.

Holy Spirit shows us where things are not in sequential order in Revelation.

Based on my belief that we are in the literal final days, that the GT is happening now.
I believe that we (most of us anyway), those of us who are here now will be part of the Great Multitude in Rev. 7
Which has not taken place yet.

There is absolutely no reason for us to stick around through all of the GT, none.
It serves no Godly purpose.
There is no Godly value to it.
IMO
BUT, if you want to believe in the post teaching, that is fine.

The ONLY reason that I do not believe in the post teaching is by what I was shown and how it was explained to me.

The explanation is so simple that a 5 year old child can grasp the complete understanding in one view.

That's all.

We both know that this is not a "salvation" issue, pre, mid, wrath, post...
it is a theological issue. No Big deal.

Most likely one of the main reason why I was shown what I believe is so that those who I tell can at least be prepared for it when it happens.

Many of those of us who are "alive and remain" when it happens will be in a cataclysmic type of situation like the massive earthquake that took place when I was harpazoed.
Because I was in complete and total holy submission to GOD, the fear of having tons of steel and cement crumbling down on this body was not even a minoot consideration, when it happened.

That is the message.

Knowing what to possibly expect and KNOW what to be doing when it happens.

When it happened, I shot to me feet, lifted my hands towards heaven and started praising God in His holy language.
Eyes wide open, ready for anything to happen and all the while knowing that no matter what happens "all is well".

The building crushed my physical body down by the weight of the tons of cement, but I was still standing where I was when it began.
My soul and Sspirit was in a new mansion body and there was just the hand of an angel under me, holding me up.
I was still in complete worshiping submission but I gazed out over the valley being on the east side of it and saw looking towards the west, all the way to Kellog hill in Pomona (San Bernardino Valley where the city is) the distance is about 50 miles and it was crystal clear.
All of the building has been swallowed up by the ground and all that I saw was others who was as I standing on these semi-transparent hands.
FEW and FAR in between.

All of the sudden I heard this shout like a trumpet, but it was not like any sound I had ever heard in all my life, it was the most melodious sound that I had ever heard.
And I looked up into the sky and saw our Lord standing among the clouds with his arms spread open and then I looked out across the valley and those of us who were dead when this happened began to rise up and then those of us who were alive and remained began to rise up towards Him and it ENDED! GRRRR

That is what happened, I was then back in the building where I was when it began but it was like it had REALLY happened.
It did, but not then and I was there.

I thought and studied about this over and over for years.

Now I had NEVER heard of a "rapture" before this and wanted to know if it was from God or what and I was led directly to I Thes 4.
Found that Luke 21:28 happened for Jesus' earthquake protocol.
That Ps 91:11 literal happened.
then I asked about the earthquake and was led to Rev 6 and 7 and later saw that this was exactly what Lord Jesus told us concerning the moon and sun all the rest was simple, just go tell people.

LOL. Yeah right, with all the centuries of teachings about the Post, Pre, Mid... BY this time it was 10 years later and I studied the other teachings to see what was up.
I don't call it PRE wrath, more like the Red Moon

Anyhow, I know that I do not come off as how you describe as being "better than everyone else, God loved me more,..." as you said.
And if that is what you are seeing then I know that is not me...

I have a message to give and it is not an easy one to share with people who believe in something that they have been taught, especially a message that does not jive with their belief.

Be it that they were taught in school or self taught.

This all happened after I asked Father how I was going to die.

I hope that everything is well with you and your family and ask that you agree with me that I am allowed to get a job... SOON... That being 55 is not why they have been passing me up.
in Jesus name,
So Be It.

Good Night

(and how do I end all my posts?)
By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
 
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