10 Lessons for Tea Baggers:

[oldbetang]

From FORBES where Postwar Presidencies Ranked By Six Measures Of Economic Performance, where 1 Is Best.

They are ranked the same way kermits source lays them out regarding GDP.

A quick glance shows that their numbers are off. They have both Eisenhower and Nixon below Ford in the GDP ranking.

 

[Loudmouth]

Business owners and those making over $250,000 are not ordinary working people?

No, they aren't.

$2 trillion deficits, socialized healthcare, Cap and Trade, and 10% unemployment were conspicuously absent during the last eight years as well.

The deficit has been above 2 trillion for quite a while. We have had socialized health care since 1965 (it's called Medicare). I am not aware of a single bill in any committee with regards to Cap and Trade. The 10% unemployment is what Obama inherited, not what he created.

If it's on the table then it's worthy of concern. Is it not?

Is it worthy of portraying the President as a communist devil?

There is some outrage regarding Medicare. The concern is that it will be robbed to pay for Obamacare.

So there is outrage that a newly created government insurance plan will take money away from socialized health care? And these people are protesting AGAINST socialized health care?

The Elane Photography case, for one.

Just one of the many reasons.

From April, 2008.

 

[JoyJuice]

Gee, I think I'll make up an unsubstantiated list of garbage to goad the dems....

...oh...but they are substantiated.

 

[TheCatholic]

...oh...but they are substantiated.

No they are not. I already proved they are not

 

[JoyJuice]

A quick glance shows that their numbers are off. They have both Eisenhower and Nixon below Ford in the GDP ranking.

Despite the BEA being their source, yeah, that must be it.

 

[JoyJuice]

No they are not. I already proved they are not

See post 89...all you did is make claims.

 

[oldbetang]

No, they aren't.

You're wrong.

The deficit has been above 2 trillion for quite a while.

You're confusing the annual deficit with the total National debt.

We have had socialized health care since 1965 (it's called Medicare).

The proposed reform is a vast expansion of that idea, while at the same time potentially gutting Medicare for seniors.

I am not aware of a single bill in any committee with regards to Cap and Trade.

Ahem...The American Clean Energy and Security Act (Waxman-Markey Bill)

The U.S. House of Representatives passed the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 (ACES Act), H.R. 2454, on June 26 by a vote of 219 to 212. This comprehensive national climate and energy legislation would establish an economy-wide, greenhouse gas (GHG) cap-and-trade system and critical complementary measures to help address climate change and build a clean energy economy.
​

The 10% unemployment is what Obama inherited, not what he created.

Obama inherited 7.2% unemployment.

Is it worthy of portraying the President as a communist devil?

Seeing as it actually passed in the House, it's certainly worthy of outrage.

So there is outrage that a newly created government insurance plan will take money away from socialized health care? And these people are protesting AGAINST socialized health care?

The tea protesters are not all of one mind. There are different factions, including the one of seniors who are worried about Medicare being stripped away, when they've already paid into it all those years.

From April, 2008.

Right. As I said, there was some encroachment on Constitutional rights.

 

[oldbetang]

Despite the BEA being their source, yeah, that must be it.

I don't know why they are off on their numbers. However, they are not accurate. Look at the BEA numbers yourself.

 

[allhart]

1. President Obama Cut Your Taxes
2. The Stimulus is Working
3. First Ronald Reagan Tripled the National Debt...
4. ...Then George W. Bush Doubled It Again
5. Republican States Have the Worst Health Care
6. Medicare is a Government Program
7. Barack Obama is Not a Muslim
8. Barack Obama was Born in the United States
9. 70,000 Does Not Equal 2,000,000
10. The Economy Almost Always Does Better Under Democrats
11. Spam email and talk radio is a short sighted source for hysteria.

I'm sooooo up set with people that seem to think everything is going soooo well out in the real world. REALITY is those of us that have no jobs are hurting God help us and God, tell those people that have jobs to shut up and to give us a break? It isn't our fault we lost our jobs. If the stimulus package is working, if that's your case in saying, for whom is it working for? Another one of my friends just lost his job and is in the process of losing his house thanks to Wells Fargo, (those hypocrites). They take our tax dollars in need, for so called help and when others need the favor in return. They chop-em-up, chew-em-up and spite them out. My friend said he has applied for 5 out of state jobs, plus ours (Ca.) and no takers.

What's strikingly funny about that the stimulus is working statement. He is an engineer with a degree, so is my brother-in-law and yet their type of work is high and dry. I don't understand that I understand about the shovel ready project, that was an over statement, plainly a joke ,but this tells me one of two things. We out sourced all the engineering over seas or they haven't done squat. Either way we are killing recovery. I have said this before, if I don't have the ability to generate income (to work). How can I buy? The stimulus package in the engineering department should be hustling and bustling right now. I just want to scream and cry and I'm fight en mad, at corrupt politician, corrupt wall street, corrupt corporate America, also Ignorance and stupid people, also I'm mad at the free loaders! It's easy to talk s*** when life isn't pressing down on ya.....

 

[allhart]

Also my friend said he went to EDD to talk options with them. Ya know (opportunity)! They said, the news media along with the papers don't have unemployment number's straight. One out of four people in the central valley are out of work, 25% of the population! Nothing to say about the part-timers and people like my wife that has given up. In which is in school prepping, in hope of more opportunity's in the future? We can't hold out much longer though people!

 

[Loudmouth]

You're wrong.

None of the "ordinary working people" I know make over $250,000. Perhaps you live in a different country?

You're confusing the annual deficit with the total National debt.

You mean that there was no deficit spending during the Bush years?

The proposed reform is a vast expansion of that idea, while at the same time potentially gutting Medicare for seniors.

Are Tea Party protestors for or against Medicare?

Ahem...The American Clean Energy and Security Act (Waxman-Markey Bill)

The U.S. House of Representatives passed the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 (ACES Act), H.R. 2454, on June 26 by a vote of 219 to 212. This comprehensive national climate and energy legislation would establish an economy-wide, greenhouse gas (GHG) cap-and-trade system and critical complementary measures to help address climate change and build a clean energy economy.​

​

Fair enough.
​

Obama inherited 7.2% unemployment.

And the economy that was losing jobs by the hundreds of thousands per month.

Seeing as it actually passed in the House, it's certainly worthy of outrage.

But I am trying to understand why Obama is being portrayed along side Hitler, Stalin, et al. How is a very expensive economic recovery plan, passed by Congress and signed by Bush, worthy of portraying Obama in this light?

The tea protesters are not all of one mind. There are different factions, including the one of seniors who are worried about Medicare being stripped away, when they've already paid into it all those years.

I understand that this is not a united front with a singular message. That's fine. There are probably even some protestors that I will generally agree with. What I don't understand is that on the one hand it is bad to cut socialized health care, but on the other hand socialized health care is an infringement on a person's constitutional rights. Surely you can see why this can be viewed as hypocritical. Judging by the quote above the Tea Party protestors would be ok with a government run insurance plan as long as people paid into it.

Right. As I said, there was some encroachment on Constitutional rights.

The case you cite is from New Mexico during the time that Obama was a Senator from Illinois. The case is within the Judicial branch. Obama has served in the Legistlature and Executive branches of government. So why the strong opposition to Obama on the basis of constitutional rights being stripped?

Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side in this case. It was poorly judged. And if it's worth mentioning, I do consider myself a liberal (stunned, aren't you?).

 

[Veritas]

See post 89...all you did is make claims.

Same as you....

I'm sooooo up set with people that seem to think everything is going soooo well out in the real world. REALITY is those of us that have no jobs are hurting God help us and God, tell those people that have jobs to shut up and to give us a break? It isn't our fault we lost our jobs. If the stimulus package is working, if that's your case in saying, for whom is it working for? Another one of my friends just lost his job and is in the process of losing his house thanks to Wells Fargo, (those hypocrites). They take our tax dollars in need, for so called help and when others need the favor in return. They chop-em-up, chew-em-up and spite them out. My friend said he has applied for 5 out of state jobs, plus ours (Ca.) and no takers.

What's strikingly funny about that the stimulus is working statement. He is an engineer with a degree, so is my brother-in-law and yet their type of work is high and dry. I don't understand that I understand about the shovel ready project, that was an over statement, plainly a joke ,but this tells me one of two things. We out sourced all the engineering over seas or they haven't done squat. Either way we are killing recovery. I have said this before, if I don't have the ability to generate income (to work). How can I buy? The stimulus package in the engineering department should be hustling and bustling right now. I just want to scream and cry and I'm fight en mad, at corrupt politician, corrupt wall street, corrupt corporate America, also Ignorance and stupid people, also I'm mad at the free loaders! It's easy to talk s*** when life isn't pressing down on ya.....

So how's that hope and change working for you???

 

[allhart]

Same as you....




So how's that hope and change working for you???

There's a lot of us out here, us tea beggars aren't the same people we where a year ago!

 

[JoyJuice]

I'm sooooo up set with people that seem to think everything is going soooo well out in the real world. REALITY is those of us that have no jobs are hurting God help us and God, tell those people that have jobs to shut up and to give us a break? It isn't our fault we lost our jobs. If the stimulus package is working, if that's your case in saying, for whom is it working for? Another one of my friends just lost his job and is in the process of losing his house thanks to Wells Fargo, (those hypocrites). They take our tax dollars in need, for so called help and when others need the favor in return. They chop-em-up, chew-em-up and spite them out. My friend said he has applied for 5 out of state jobs, plus ours (Ca.) and no takers.

What's strikingly funny about that the stimulus is working statement. He is an engineer with a degree, so is my brother-in-law and yet their type of work is high and dry. I don't understand that I understand about the shovel ready project, that was an over statement, plainly a joke ,but this tells me one of two things. We out sourced all the engineering over seas or they haven't done squat. Either way we are killing recovery. I have said this before, if I don't have the ability to generate income (to work). How can I buy? The stimulus package in the engineering department should be hustling and bustling right now. I just want to scream and cry and I'm fight en mad, at corrupt politician, corrupt wall street, corrupt corporate America, also Ignorance and stupid people, also I'm mad at the free loaders! It's easy to talk s*** when life isn't pressing down on ya.....

To understand if the stimulus package is working it may be beneficial to go outside the pool of you, your friend, and your brother in law.

HERE, from the Wall Street Journal:

"Many forecasters say stimulus spending is adding two to three percentage points to economic growth in the second and third quarters, when measured at an annual rate. The impact in the second quarter, calculated by analyzing how the extra funds flowing into the economy boost consumption, investment and spending, helped slow the rate of decline and will lay the groundwork for positive growth in the third quarter -- something that seemed almost implausible just a few months ago. Some economists say the 1% contraction in the second quarter would have been far worse, possibly as much as 3.2%, if not for the stimulus.

For the third quarter, economists at Goldman Sachs & Co. predict the U.S. economy will grow by 3.3%. "Without that extra stimulus, we would be somewhere around zero," said Jan Hatzius, chief U.S. economist for Goldman"

HERE, the EPI:

"Despite the overall contraction, the fingerprints of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act could be seen in some aspect of today's report. Federal government spending grew at an 11% rate in the quarter, adding roughly 0.8% to overall GDP. State and local government spending grew at a 2.4% annual rate, the fastest growth since the middle of 2007. It is clear that the large amount of state aid contained in the ARRA made this growth possible.

Furthermore, real (inflation-adjusted) disposable personal income rose by 3.2% in the quarter, after rising by only 1% in the previous quarter. A large contribution to this increase was made by the Making Work Pay tax credit passed in conjunction with the ARRA, as this was the first full quarter that the credit was in effect...

...The consensus of macroeconomic forecasters is that ARRA contributed roughly 3% to annualized growth rates in the second quarter. This means that absent its effects, economic performance would have resembled that of the previous three quarters, when the economy contracted at an average annual rate of 4.9%. In short, the recovery act turned this quarter's economic performance from disastrous to merely bad."

HERE from USAToday

"A huge influx of federal stimulus money to state and local governments more than offset a sharp drop in tax collections, helping to put the brakes on the nation's economic decline, new government data show.
The stimulus funds helped reverse six months of spending declines, pushing state and local government expenditures up 4.8% in the second quarter, reports the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

"The money has caused a very sharp change in the path of the economy, which had been in steep decline," said Chad Stone, chief economist at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities in Washington, D.C.

You had many GOP Congressman who voted against the Stimilus at home in their states locally telling them how good it was working.

...they just won't do it on FOX.

​

 

[JoyJuice]

Same as you....

I'm sorry, but I sourced and backed them up on mulitple posts, just like the one right above this one.

 

[allhart]

To understand if the stimulus package is working it may be beneficial to go outside the pool of you, your friend, and your brother in law.

HERE, from the Wall Street Journal:

"Many forecasters say stimulus spending is adding two to three percentage points to economic growth in the second and third quarters, when measured at an annual rate. The impact in the second quarter, calculated by analyzing how the extra funds flowing into the economy boost consumption, investment and spending, helped slow the rate of decline and will lay the groundwork for positive growth in the third quarter -- something that seemed almost implausible just a few months ago. Some economists say the 1% contraction in the second quarter would have been far worse, possibly as much as 3.2%, if not for the stimulus.

For the third quarter, economists at Goldman Sachs & Co. predict the U.S. economy will grow by 3.3%. "Without that extra stimulus, we would be somewhere around zero," said Jan Hatzius, chief U.S. economist for Goldman"

HERE, the EPI:

"Despite the overall contraction, the fingerprints of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act could be seen in some aspect of today's report. Federal government spending grew at an 11% rate in the quarter, adding roughly 0.8% to overall GDP. State and local government spending grew at a 2.4% annual rate, the fastest growth since the middle of 2007. It is clear that the large amount of state aid contained in the ARRA made this growth possible.

Furthermore, real (inflation-adjusted) disposable personal income rose by 3.2% in the quarter, after rising by only 1% in the previous quarter. A large contribution to this increase was made by the Making Work Pay tax credit passed in conjunction with the ARRA, as this was the first full quarter that the credit was in effect...

...The consensus of macroeconomic forecasters is that ARRA contributed roughly 3% to annualized growth rates in the second quarter. This means that absent its effects, economic performance would have resembled that of the previous three quarters, when the economy contracted at an average annual rate of 4.9%. In short, the recovery act turned this quarter's economic performance from disastrous to merely bad."

HERE from USAToday

"A huge influx of federal stimulus money to state and local governments more than offset a sharp drop in tax collections, helping to put the brakes on the nation's economic decline, new government data show.
The stimulus funds helped reverse six months of spending declines, pushing state and local government expenditures up 4.8% in the second quarter, reports the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

"The money has caused a very sharp change in the path of the economy, which had been in steep decline," said Chad Stone, chief economist at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities in Washington, D.C.

You had many GOP Congressman who voted against the Stimilus at home in their states locally telling them how good it was working.

...they just won't do it on FOX.

Look, I know many and I MEAN MANY PEOPLE WHOM ARE Effectively out of work, so talk is cheap. Especially if your well off or working. Are you working? And how many people do ya know that's directly or indirectly effected by this corrupt (man made) down turn in our economy? In which is still playing out! Congress is playing with fire and Obama is sooooo inexperienced or just playing politics as well! The Corruption ids coming from the top down and if ya destroy your base the come tumbling down, but they come tumbling down on your head!Double whammy.....

COOKED BOOKS AS USUAL. Doesn't add up in the real world that's what got us here in the first place!

 

[JoyJuice]

Look, I know many and I MEAN MANY PEOPLE WHOM ARE Effectively out of work, so talk is cheap. Especially if your well off or working. Are you working? And how many people do ya know that's directly or indirectly effected by this corrupt (man made) down turn in our economy? In which is still playing out! Congress is playing with fire and Obama is sooooo inexperienced or just playing politics as well! The Corruption ids coming from the top down and if ya destroy your base the come tumbling down, but they come tumbling down on your head!Double whammy.....

COOKED BOOKS AS USUAL. Doesn't add up in the real world that's what got us here in the first place!

Yes, a conspiracy of cooked books by the Wall Street Journal, the EPI, and the USA today when they examine the whole country in totality, while you " know many and I MEAN MANY PEOPLE."

....great. :o

I understand many people are NOT working, but as the articles point out, the stimulus package prevented that being worse, just like it was meant to do.

 

[allhart]

Yes, a conspiracy of cooked books by the Wall Street Journal, the EPI, and the USA today when they examine the whole country in totality, while you " know many and I MEAN MANY PEOPLE."

....great. :o

I understand many people are NOT working, but as the articles point out, the stimulus package prevented that being worse, just like it was meant to do.

prolonging the inevitable. Working the infrastructure inlike the depression has already been predetermined for whats best for our recovery. There is no inexperience here, just implementation. No jobs, no power for economic growth. Just like unemployment cooked books, the elephant is still in the room and the bull is still in the china cabinet.....

Reminds me of the young bucks on the jobs running around looking busy, but not accomplishing much. At the end of the day if you haven't materilized any subsatnce what good is all the rushing around or talk?

 

[kermit]

I don't know why they are off on their numbers. However, they are not accurate. Look at the BEA numbers yourself.

Forbes...trusted and respected financial publication

oldbetang...random internet forum user

I think I'll trust the analysis of Forbes thank you very much.

 

[JoyJuice]

prolonging the inevitable. Working the infrastructure inlike the depression has already been predetermined for whats best for our recovery. There is no inexperience here, just implementation. No jobs, no power for economic growth. Just like unemployment cooked books, the elephant is still in the room and the bull is still in the china cabinet.....

Reminds me of the young bucks on the jobs running around looking busy, but not accomplishing much. At the end of the day if you haven't materilized any subsatnce what good is all the rushing around or talk?

.......

REUTERS

" WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The number of jobs created or saved by infrastructure projects funded by the U.S. economic stimulus plan increased by more than 50 percent in July from June, according to a report on Wednesday.
By the end of July, 77,470 jobs had been "created or sustained" by water, highway and public transportation projects, compared to slightly less than 50,000 jobs at the end of June, said the report from a House of Representatives committee."

...dude, your answers are all there, all you have to do is look rather then putting forward a speculative diatribe.