1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Don't Be Deceived!

[Truth7t7]

No?

Then for what "1000 year period" is Satan going to be restrained?

It cannot be now.
It hasn't been previouslysst be in the future.
If there is no millennial reign of Christ after the tribulation... then...It cannot be after the return of Christ at Armageddon.

So? When is Satan locked up for 1000 years and then let out near the end to deceive those for one more time?

Satan is bound from "One Specific Purpose"?

Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle Of Armageddon.

Satan Will be released at the end of the future tribulation.

This deception is seen in Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9 the same event.

 

[JacksBratt]

Satan is bound from "One Specific Purpose"?

Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle Of Armageddon.

Satan Will be released at the end of the future tribulation.

This deception is seen in Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9 the same event.

So, I guess, according to you, the battle of Armageddon is "at least" 1000 years away from any given moment in time... until Satan is bound....

But, how is Satan going to be bound FOR the time of Tribulation. Is he not reeking havoc on the earth, running the one world government, the false prophet, the beast?
From what I am told, Satan will be doing his greatest work at this time..... not bound.

So...sorry, I'm confused...

Satan is bound for "one specific purpose"

He is bound for the millennial reign of Christ. Christ is going to reign with His rules, His ways and Satan will not be able to tempt anyone. 1000 years of bliss with no Satan or his minions to tempt anyone.
At the end of this millennial time, Satan will be let loose for a short time. This is due to the fact that everyone must be tempted and have a choice between Christ and their own way. Satan will be the one to tempt them.

Even after 1000 years of righteous leadership from Christ Himself... surprising enough, some will fall for the deceptions of Satan. That is how convincing he is.

 

[Postvieww]

Satan is bound from "One Specific Purpose"?

Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle Of Armageddon.

So, satan is currently bound in the bottomless pit so as not to deceive the nations to attend the battle of Armageddon but he is currently free to deceive mankind in a myriad of ways?

Please explain?

 

[Postvieww]

The answer is found below.
The judgment of the dead occurs right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Hi BaBarean2,

I watched the video and I understand the thinking for the 1000 years being an indefinite period of time. My question is if we are currently in the 1000 year period (not necessarily a literal 1000 years) where in the end time scenario is satan released?

If the beast and the false prophet are taken and cast into the lake of fire when they challenge Christ and His armies at His return Revelation 19:19-21 how is it in Revelation 20 satan gathers the nations against the camp of the saints and Jerusalem and then satan is cast onto the lake of fire where the false prophet and beast already are? Help me with time line. You know I don’t believe Revelation is completely chronological but to make this fit do we not have say Revelation 19:19-21 and Revelation 20:7-10 are the same event?

Revelation 19:19-21 says the armies are destroyed with the sword of His mouth and Revelation 20:7-10 Fire came down from God out of heaven. Can you make sense of this for me?

 

[BABerean2]

Hi BaBarean2,

I watched the video and I understand the thinking for the 1000 years being an indefinite period of time. My question is if we are currently in the 1000 year period (not necessarily a literal 1000 years) where in the end time scenario is satan released?

If the beast and the false prophet are taken and cast into the lake of fire when they challenge Christ and His armies at His return Revelation 19:19-21 how is it in Revelation 20 satan gathers the nations against the camp of the saints and Jerusalem and then satan is cast onto the lake of fire where the false prophet and beast already are? Help me with time line. You know I don’t believe Revelation is completely chronological but to make this fit do we not have say Revelation 19:19-21 and Revelation 20:7-10 are the same event?

Revelation 19:19-21 says the armies are destroyed with the sword of His mouth and Revelation 20:7-10 Fire came down from God out of heaven. Can you make sense of this for me?

Brother, it is nice to hear from somebody that loves me, instead of someone throwing darts in my direction.

I do not have all of the answers, because some things are not that clear.

We may need to go back and take another look at the seals book in chapters 5 and 6.
It is a summary of the Book of Revelation.

Only the Lamb is found worthy to open the seals of the book.
Christ removes the seals one at a time.
After each seal is removed John is told, "Come and see."

At the end of chapter 6 we find the exact same signs in the sun, moon, and stars that are found in the Olivet Discourse, at the Second Coming. The moon does not give its light during a Blood Moon.
We also find some of the same characters hiding from the wrath of the Lamb that are found in chapter 19. (mighty men, captains, free, bond, etc.) They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb unless the Lamb is present at this point in time. Therefore, the end of chapter 6 is the Second Coming.

In between the beginning of chapter 5 and the end of chapter 6 we may find some clues about world events before the return of Christ.

We know that Christ returns in "flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians chapter 1. This agrees with the fire coming in chapter 20. Peter says the fire comes on the day of the Lord when he comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10. We know from Revelation 16:15-16 that this happens at Armageddon.

We also know from Matthew 25:31-46 that the judgment of the living occurs and the wicked are cast into the lake of fire at His Second Coming.

The following is my opinion, but is not written in stone.

For over 20 years I have been studying the move to push the world into a globalist system of government. Much of that push has come from powerful people in the United States.
We are only one crisis away from global government, now.
If a nuclear weapon destroys a U.S. city the people of our nation and the world will cry out for world government.

If that occurs, Christians will be persecuted as never before.
Missionaries will be forbidden from taking the Gospel to the world. It is my view that this is the time when Satan will be released to deceive the whole world. There will be tremendous famines and war as found in chapter 6.


If the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 is the same judgment of the dead at the end of Revelation chapter 20, we are forced to what most people call the Amill position.
I really do not like the term Ammillennial, because it means no millennium. Instead we have Christ now reigning in heaven.

Pastor Sam Storms is a graduate of Dallas Theological, who abandoned most of the doctrine taught by the seminary before he graduated. His viewpoint is almost exactly like mine.
It will be well worth your time to listen to his viewpoint.
I will get it to you shortly.

I love you, Brother.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

There is no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth as you claim in error.

Jesus returns in the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom.

Matthew 25:31-46

Verse 31-32 Jesus returns, nations gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

There is no 1000 year kingdom on earth when Jesus returns.

"Eternity Begins"

How long will you continue to teach in error?

There is no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth as you claim in error.

Jesus returns in the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom.

Matthew 25:31-46

Verse 31-32 Jesus returns, nations gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

There is no 1000 year kingdom on earth when Jesus returns.

"Eternity Begins"

How long will you continue to teach in error?

In a debate the participants both present cases they believe are true and I respect that you believe your opinions to be correct but that is not proof you are right. In science you come up with a hypothesis and then conduct experiments to see if your hypothesis reacts the way you predicted it would. You can disprove something much more easily than to prove it as some predictions may be accurate only to bring it to the next level of challenge.

 

[Postvieww]

Brother, it is nice to hear from somebody that loves me, instead of someone throwing darts in my direction.

I do not have all of the answers, because some things are not that clear.

We may need to go back and take another look at the seals book in chapters 5 and 6.
It is a summary of the Book of Revelation.

Only the Lamb is found worthy to open the seals of the book.
Christ removes the seals one at a time.
After each seal is removed John is told, "Come and see."

At the end of chapter 6 we find the exact same signs in the sun, moon, and stars that are found in the Olivet Discourse, at the Second Coming. The moon does not give its light during a Blood Moon.
We also find some of the same characters hiding from the wrath of the Lamb that are found in chapter 19. (mighty men, captains, free, bond, etc.) They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb unless the Lamb is present at this point in time. Therefore, the end of chapter 6 is the Second Coming.

In between the beginning of chapter 5 and the end of chapter 6 we may find some clues about world events before the return of Christ.

We know that Christ returns in "flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians chapter 1. This agrees with the fire coming in chapter 20. Peter says the fire comes on the day of the Lord when he comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10. We know from Revelation 16:15-16 that this happens at Armageddon.

We also know from Matthew 25:31-46 that the judgment of the living occurs and the wicked are cast into the lake of fire at His Second Coming.

The following is my opinion, but is not written in stone.

For over 20 years I have been studying the move to push the world into a globalist system of government. Much of that push has come from powerful people in the United States.
We are only one crisis away from global government, now.
If a nuclear weapon destroys a U.S. city the people of our nation and the world will cry out for world government.

If that occurs, Christians will be persecuted as never before.
Missionaries will be forbidden from taking the Gospel to the world. It is my view that this is the time when Satan will be released to deceive the whole world. There will be tremendous famines and war as found in chapter 6.


If the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 is the same judgment of the dead at the end of Revelation chapter 20, we are forced to what most people call the Amill position.
I really do not like the term Ammillennial, because it means no millennium. Instead we have Christ now reigning in heaven.

Pastor Sam Storms is a graduate of Dallas Theological, who abandoned most of the doctrine taught by the seminary before he graduated. His viewpoint is almost exactly like mine.
It will be well worth your time to listen to his viewpoint.
I will get it to you shortly.

I love you, Brother.

I also love you as a brother in Christ. BTW I am not qualified to throw darts at you. I have learned a lot from you and agree with you on a lot but I still have a few questions on some things that are not settled in my mind.

 

[DavidPT]

Satan is bound from "One Specific Purpose"?

Deceiving The Nations To The Final Battle Of Armageddon.

Satan Will be released at the end of the future tribulation.

This deception is seen in Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:7-9 the same event.

Assuming Premil is the correct position, which of course it is, but that's beside the point, what was satan doing before he gets bound? Was he not doing exactly what you just said, deceiving the nations to going to battle? He then gets bound so that he can no longer deceive the nations to go to battle again until after he is loosed. In your scenerio you simply have him bound so that he can't deceive the nations to go to battle. In the Premil scenerio he is bound because that's exactly what he was doing that led to him getting bound, thus the binding preventing him from doing this yet again until he is loosed.

To further show what I'm trying to get at here, consider the following analogy.

Joe drives around drunk and gets in one accident after another, hurting others in the process. Joe then is eventually detained and locked up for several years. What will this prevent him from doing during that time? Would it not prevent him from doing what got him locked up in the first place?

Joe then is released after several years and goes back to doing exactly what he did before, that got him locked up the first time. But this time around it results in Joe losing his life in one of these accidents. Not a perfect analogy of course, but it shows that satan is bound to prevent him from doing what he was doing that lead to him getting bound. In this case, that would be that he was deceiving the nations and causing them to go to battle. We know that has to be why he was initially bound, based on what he does once he is loosed. Not to mention, exactly what Premil shows him doing prior to him getting bound.

 

[LastSeven]

You completely ignored the description of those people to make it fit your theology. Then you allgorized the beheadings and the mark of the beast to make it say what you wanted.

How can we talk about this when you use scripture as your own personal Play-Doh set?

To make it say what I want? I don't "want" it to say anything other than what it says. The only thing I want, is to understand it. And in order to understand it, I don't have to ignore anything. The description fits my theology perfectly. I just had to simplify it for you so you could see it.

 

[SeventyOne]

To make it say what I want? I don't "want" it to say anything other than what it says. The only thing I want, is to understand it. And in order to understand it, I don't have to ignore anything. The description fits my theology perfectly. I just had to simplify it for you so you could see it.

You didn't 'simplify' it. You 'modified' it.

 

[LastSeven]

No, I simplified it.

 

[SeventyOne]

No, I simplified it.

You're dishonest. I'm done with you.

 

[Blade]

Forgive me.. but I don't think this helps. Well there are people that have studied this for 1-50 years and still have no answer. All you did was post a few verses and tell others what its really saying.

Jesus looked the 12 in the eye and said I am going and will come back and get you so where I am you will be. They asked Him just before about ... are you going to RULE now.. and He said.. of those times and seasons ONLY the Father knows. Jesus has no clue when He is coming back. And I am sure the Father never told you.

Fact. There is NO PRE TRIB in the bible. There is no MID TRIP in the bible. There is no POST TRIB in the bible. Now.. Jesus is coming. And.. one should SERCH on last Trump.. is it the last?

He is coming back.. me? I am ready NOW.. Sorry I am not going to take the word of some person on this globe that just read the bible and then trys to tell me what GOD is REALLY saying. If you are not ready not watching.. you won't go. He cant tell you when if HE doesnt know. He can not lie. He is coming.. once He rose HE knew nothing had to happen for HIM to return to get His Chruch. So He never lied to them. He told them I WILL COME BACK FOR YOU! Out right lie if He knew it was at the end.. just my thoughts
.

 

[Truth7t7]

So, I guess, according to you, the battle of Armageddon is "at least" 1000 years away from any given moment in time... until Satan is bound....

But, how is Satan going to be bound FOR the time of Tribulation. Is he not reeking havoc on the earth, running the one world government, the false prophet, the beast?
From what I am told, Satan will be doing his greatest work at this time..... not bound.

So...sorry, I'm confused...

Satan is bound for "one specific purpose"

He is bound for the millennial reign of Christ. Christ is going to reign with His rules, His ways and Satan will not be able to tempt anyone. 1000 years of bliss with no Satan or his minions to tempt anyone.
At the end of this millennial time, Satan will be let loose for a short time. This is due to the fact that everyone must be tempted and have a choice between Christ and their own way. Satan will be the one to tempt them.

Even after 1000 years of righteous leadership from Christ Himself... surprising enough, some will fall for the deceptions of Satan. That is how convincing he is.

You gave total disregard to my post.

Revelation 20:1-6
satan is sealed from "Deceiving The Nations"

You falsely interpret this to mean ""All Evil Is Gone" 100% False!

This "Deceiving The Nations" Is Seen In Revelation 16:12-17, "Devils" go forth to the kings of the world, to gather them to the final battle.

What is satan bound and sealed from?

Revelation 16:12-17 taking place.

There will be no 1000 year kingdom on this earth.

Jesus returns in final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom. Matthew 25:31-46

 

[Choose Wisely]

I also love you as a brother in Christ. BTW I am not qualified to throw darts at you. I have learned a lot from you and agree with you on a lot but I still have a few questions on some things that are not settled in my mind.

If BaBerean2 is a brother......I'll be shocked. No offense but uses logic of a woman. If I'm wrong....sorry.

 

[Truth7t7]

So, satan is currently bound in the bottomless pit so as not to deceive the nations to attend the battle of Armageddon but he is currently free to deceive mankind in a myriad of ways?

Please explain?

Thanks for the reply.

Post view many teach in error that Satan is bound and sealed from all evil, false.

Revelation 20:1-9

Verse (3) Satan bound/sealed from "Deceiving The Nations"

Verse (4) Satan is loosed to "Deceive The Nations"

Verses (8-9) This Deception Satan was bound from is "Clearly Explained" as drawing the nations to the final battle.

This same parallel teaching is seen in Revelation 16:12-17, "Devils" going forth to the kings of the world, to draw them to the final battle of Armageddon "This Is The Deception" Satan is currently bound and sealed from.

Revelation 16:12-17, Revelation 20:7-9 are the same events in parallel teachings.

 

[Douggg]

Brother, it is nice to hear from somebody that loves me, instead of someone throwing darts in my direction.

I do not have all of the answers, because some things are not that clear.

We may need to go back and take another look at the seals book in chapters 5 and 6.
It is a summary of the Book of Revelation.

Only the Lamb is found worthy to open the seals of the book.
Christ removes the seals one at a time.
After each seal is removed John is told, "Come and see."

At the end of chapter 6 we find the exact same signs in the sun, moon, and stars that are found in the Olivet Discourse, at the Second Coming. The moon does not give its light during a Blood Moon.
We also find some of the same characters hiding from the wrath of the Lamb that are found in chapter 19. (mighty men, captains, free, bond, etc.) They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb unless the Lamb is present at this point in time. Therefore, the end of chapter 6 is the Second Coming.

In between the beginning of chapter 5 and the end of chapter 6 we may find some clues about world events before the return of Christ.

We know that Christ returns in "flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians chapter 1. This agrees with the fire coming in chapter 20. Peter says the fire comes on the day of the Lord when he comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10. We know from Revelation 16:15-16 that this happens at Armageddon.

We also know from Matthew 25:31-46 that the judgment of the living occurs and the wicked are cast into the lake of fire at His Second Coming.

The following is my opinion, but is not written in stone.

For over 20 years I have been studying the move to push the world into a globalist system of government. Much of that push has come from powerful people in the United States.
We are only one crisis away from global government, now.
If a nuclear weapon destroys a U.S. city the people of our nation and the world will cry out for world government.

If that occurs, Christians will be persecuted as never before.
Missionaries will be forbidden from taking the Gospel to the world. It is my view that this is the time when Satan will be released to deceive the whole world. There will be tremendous famines and war as found in chapter 6.


If the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 is the same judgment of the dead at the end of Revelation chapter 20, we are forced to what most people call the Amill position.
I really do not like the term Ammillennial, because it means no millennium. Instead we have Christ now reigning in heaven.

Pastor Sam Storms is a graduate of Dallas Theological, who abandoned most of the doctrine taught by the seminary before he graduated. His viewpoint is almost exactly like mine.
It will be well worth your time to listen to his viewpoint.
I will get it to you shortly.

I love you, Brother.

I watched the video. Sam Storms doesn't have slightest idea of what he is talking about regarding Revelation. No substance and a lot of fog in his useless commentary.

 

[Truth7t7]

In a debate the participants both present cases they believe are true and I respect that you believe your opinions to be correct but that is not proof you are right. In science you come up with a hypothesis and then conduct experiments to see if your hypothesis reacts the way you predicted it would. You can disprove something much more easily than to prove it as some predictions may be accurate only to bring it to the next level of challenge.

Gods words dictate truth!

Your pre-trib rapture and 1000 year kingdom on this earth are not found in Gods words.

Thats A Fact!

 

[Truth7t7]

If BaBerean2 is a brother......I'll be shocked. No offense but uses logic of a woman. If I'm wrong....sorry.

I would say the same about you.

wheat harvest, barley harvest, pentecost, passover, equals the rapture?

Thats not even logic!

 

[BABerean2]

I watched the video. Sam Storms doesn't have slightest idea of what he is talking about regarding Revelation. No substance and a lot of fog in his useless commentary.

Dr. Sam Storms was taught Dispensational Futurism while he was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary, but rejected the doctrine when he could not get it to match up with his Bible.

Quite a few of us here have done something similar.

However, a few of us cannot let go of it...

.