(1 Thess 4) believe in rapture?

[JacksBratt]

Not much but the point is the resurrection is over before the rapture even begins.

By "not much" would you say or agree that the time frame between these two will be indistinguishable by the populous of the earth...?

And, therefore...... the same event, even by the measurement of an Olympic time clock?

 

[ewq1938]

The length of time between two events can never make them one event. The resurrection is FIRST which proves your theory wrong that both events are actually the same one event. The rapture is SECOND, only happening AFTER the resurrection is completed. Paul only uses the term rapture for the living ones, not for the dead. We must adhere to what scripture says

 

[JacksBratt]

The length of time between two events can never make them one event. The resurrection is FIRST which proves your theory wrong that both events are actually the same one event. The rapture is SECOND, only happening AFTER the resurrection is completed. Paul only uses the term rapture for the living ones, not for the dead. We must adhere to what scripture says

This is, in fact, one event.

It is Christ bringing His believers home. It is Christ bringing His bride to the wedding. It is Christ retrieving all those that believed on His name.

Some are "sleeping". They are given new bodies and meet in the clouds. The living, they are given new incorruptible bodies instantaneously, and meet with them.

It is all one event. It happens in two stages. First the dead are raptured... caught up. Then the living.

I'm not going to argue this anymore. If you want to say that the snap of the ball and the punt that follows is two different events.... it's fine with me.

 

[ewq1938]

It is all one event. It happens in two stages. First the dead are raptured... caught up. Then the living.

The dead aren't caught up for two reasons. First, Paul doesn't say they will be. He only says the living are caught up. Second, the dead in Christ are already in heaven because that's where the spirit/soul goes at death. They don't need to be "caught up" anywhere anymore than Christ does being that they are with him.

I'm not going to argue this anymore. If you want to say that the snap of the ball and the punt that follows is two different events.... it's fine with me.

Not only are those two different events, they are performed by two different people.

 

[JacksBratt]

The dead aren't caught up for two reasons. First, Paul doesn't say they will be. He only says the living are caught up. Second, the dead in Christ are already in heaven because that's where the spirit/soul goes at death. They don't need to be "caught up" anywhere anymore than Christ does being that they are with him.

If the dead are not caught up... who is the "them" here:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17King James Version (KJV)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Not only that but the scripture, here, states that they will "rise".

So, the Bible states that not only will they rise but we will meet them....in the clouds.

Sounds to me like you have an error in your view.

Not only are those two different events, they are performed by two different people.

So... I throw you a ball.. you catch it... two events? OR.... one event?

Sounds like splitting hairs... especially when it happens in a millisecond..

However, again, I say.......carry on.

God Bless.

 

[ewq1938]

If the dead are not caught up... who is the "them" here:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17King James Version (KJV)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I already answered this question. The living are lifted up in order to meet "them" which are the resurrected saints.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead come with Christ. The dead are in heaven when they are resurrected. That's why Paul does not include the dead as part of the Harpazo.

Not only that but the scripture, here, states that they will "rise".

Yes but one must check the Greek definition to understand what the word means:

G450
ἀνίστημι
anistēmi
an-is'-tay-mee
From G303 and G2476; to stand up (literally or figuratively, transitively or intransitively): - arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up (-right).


Literally it means to stand up, figuratively it means to be resurrected from the dead.

Rapture has a different meaning:

G726
ἁρπάζω
harpazō
har-pad'-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

To be physically seized or caught upwards is what this word means.

When the dead "rise" it means they are resurrected not that they rise up into the air.
When the living are "caught up" they are lifted into the air physically.

This is why studying the bible and the original language is required to be able to understand any English translation.

 

[SBC]

(1 Thess 4) believe in rapture?

Absolutely!

Remember the first time of flying in the sky's and experiencing the awesomeness of being surrounded by pillars of clouds?

Now imagine those who have never experienced that, gathered together in the clouds with Jesus!!!

What a marvelous and joyful thing to look forward to.

God Bless,
SBC