1 John 3...VERSUS...1 John 1: Sinning after salvation

[Ron Gurley]

1 John 3 (NASB)...

Children of God: Love One Another

See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Everyone who PRACTICES sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who ABIDES in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
>>>9 No one who is born of ( abides in) God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because (IF) he is born of God. <<<<
J10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.

13 Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him 20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Introduction, The Incarnate Word

1 John 1 (NASB)

What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

God Is Light

5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. >>>6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; <<<

7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and

>>>the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.<<<<


8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.


9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Justify and harmonize these 2 passages?!?!

 

[1stcenturylady]

1 John 3 (NASB)...

Children of God: Love One Another

See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Everyone who PRACTICES sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who ABIDES in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
>>>9 No one who is born of ( abides in) God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because (IF) he is born of God. <<<<
J10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.

13 Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him 20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Introduction, The Incarnate Word

1 John 1 (NASB)

What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

God Is Light

5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. >>>6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; <<<

7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and

>>>the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.<<<<


8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.


9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Fustify and harmonize these 2 passages?!?!

What is there to harmonize? Those who are not in the light are in darkness - verses 6, 8 and 10 - no Truth/Holy Spirit. To come into the light initially - verse 9. Those who are IN the light and walk in it - verse 7, which is what 1 John 3 is about.

 

[Ron Gurley]

My conclusion:
1. Believers continue to sin after salvation. Their old man is not dead.
2. They are not ABIDING in Christ. Run: “abide “ through a Bible search engine.

 

[1stcenturylady]

My conclusion:
1. Believers continue to sin after salvation. Their old man is not dead.
2. They are not ABIDING in Christ. Run: “abide “ through a Bible search engine.

Wrong. Those who continue to sin are in darkness. They just say they have fellowship with God. A true Christian walks in the light 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 3.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What is there to harmonize? Those who are not in the light are in darkness - verses 6, 8 and 10 - no Truth/Holy Spirit. To come into the light initially - verse 9. Those who are IN the light and walk in it - verse 7, which is what 1 John 3 is about.

It looked like that was what the OP was saying, I mean each and every word screamed that... then:

My conclusion:
1. Believers continue to sin after salvation. Their old man is not dead.
2. They are not ABIDING in Christ. Run: “abide “ through a Bible search engine.

What in the world is going on?

 

[Kenny'sID]

My conclusion:
1. Believers continue to sin after salvation. Their old man is not dead.

Is that to say if they continue to sin/their old man is not dead, hence, they are not really saved?

 

[Doug Melven]

We must remember why 1 John was written and what John was countering.
There were gnostics who had strange beliefs about sin and the flesh.
So John was countering thee beliefs and saying we actually do sin.
Our (believers) fellowship is with God who has no darkness at all.
And Jesus Christ's blood cleanses from sin those who walk in the light.
John is not denying believers sin, he is saying that Jesus' blood continually cleanses us.
This is not referring to our spirit, which is one with God and cannot sin, but to our flesh (body and soul).

So then we come to verse 9, if these unbelievers would confess there sins, they to could be cleansed.
Confess = homologos, same word
Say what God says and admit you have a problem and need a Savior.
Then we get to chapter 2.
John says he is writing to believers to not sin, but if they do sin they have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
Notice he does not say if you sin refer back to 1 John 1:9. That is why I say that verse is not for believers.
Then we get to chapter 3.
Here in verse 9 he says that those who are born of God cannot sin.
Our body is not regenerated. We will bet new bodies when Jesus comes back for us. 1 The 4:13-18
Our soul is not regenerated. We renew our mind by the Word of God, this is a work in progress.
Our spirit is born again. Colossians 2:9 says we are complete in Him. Our body and soul are not complete.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It looked like that was what the OP was saying, I mean each and every word screamed that... then:



What in the world is going on?

Like many people he believes 1 John 1:8 over 1 John 3, when in reality they contradict one another and 1 John 1:8 is not even talking about a Christian, but those who continue to sin, but say they are not sinning. There is no truth in that statement, nor in them.

Unfortunately, many have never experienced the power of the Holy Spirit, therefore are still struggling with their flesh, and just can't relate to those who do have the power.

 

[Kenny'sID]

7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil

And what are the works of the devil? Sin. How can that be any more clear? if we practice sin we are of the devil...period.

Who here can possibly think we will make it to heaven if we're of the devil?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Like many people he believes 1 John 1:8 over 1 John 3, when in reality they contradict one another and 1 John 1:8 is not even talking about a Christian, but those who continue to sin, but say they are not sinning. There is no truth in that statement, nor in them.

OK, I thought he was on the opposite side of what he seems to be saying in the OP. To me every bit of that scripture screams everything but his belief and it's mind boggling how anyone can take it any other way.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And what are the works of the devil? Sin. How can that be any more clear? if we practice sin we are of the devil...period.

Who here can possibly think we will make it to heaven if we're of the devil?

Don't you know there are whole denominations that say that our righteousness is only imputed to us while we continue to sin? It is like Harry Potter's invisibility cloak which prevents God from seeing our sin. It is a total heresy, of course, but that's what they teach, and it started with Martin Luther who said to make your sins strong. In other words sin so grace may abound, exactly what Paul spoke AGAINST!

 

[1stcenturylady]

OK, I thought he was on the opposite side of what he seems to be saying in the OP. To me every bit of that scripture screams everything but his belief and it's mind boggling how anyone can take it any other way.

It has been argued a lot on here. They quote 1 John 1:8 to justify there own sin, and they relate to the struggle of Romans 7, which is actually talking about those Jews who had the law before Christ came. The law was holy, but our carnal nature can't keep the law. Only our new nature can that Christ empowers us with.

 

[Kenny'sID]

My conclusion:
1. Believers continue to sin after salvation. Their old man is not dead.

No, they are not sin free after salvation, and forgiveness of that sin is available, but there is a very important term in the scripture you quoted..."Practice" to live in sin without concern, that's where the problem lies.

4 Everyone who PRACTICES sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who ABIDES in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

Some take that to mean we sin we sin and we are forgiven, even if we practice it as a lifestyle. That's where the twist in this usually lies, but the bible is clear... we cannot practice it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Don't you know there are whole denominations that say that our righteousness is only imputed to us while we continue to sin? It is like Harry Potter's invisibility cloak which prevents God from seeing our sin. It is a total heresy, of course, but that's what they teach, and it started with Martin Luther who said to make your sins strong. In other words sin so grace may abound, exactly what Paul spoke AGAINST!

Yep, I know, and it's astounding that the OP is oblivious to what he posted really meant, when it's so clear.

Mind boggling and truly bizarre.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It has been argued a lot on here. They quote 1 John 1:8 to justify there own sin, and they relate to the struggle of Romans 7, which is actually talking about those Jews who had the law before Christ came. The law was holy, but our carnal nature can't keep the law. Only our new nature can that Christ empowers us with.

Plus, they all tend to use the same arguments, and if we disagree, and say we must be obedient, we're said to be legalistic, or bad people for doing what is Biblical/correct. Those who preach that have them wrapped around their little finger, because it's just what they want to believe..

Just another of a few "Have your cake and eat it too" doctrines.

I've thought lately this is not a huge percentage, but 20 or so percent is way too much,and that doesn't include the undecided that eventually fall for it, and all because it allows sin and still gets them to heaven.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Plus, they all tend to use the same arguments, and if we disagree, and say we must be obedient, we're said to be legalistic, or bad people for doing what is Biblical/correct. Those who preach that have them wrapped around their little finger, because it's just what they want to believe..

Just another of a few "Have your cake and eat it too" doctrines.

I've thought lately this is not a huge percentage, but 20 or so percent is way too much,and that doesn't include the undecided that eventually fall for it, and all because it allows sin and still gets them to heaven.

I agree. It is the difference between believing in Jesus (same as the demons do) and following Him.

The opponents call us trying to save ourselves through works. Call it what you like, I don't care. All I know is that I lost the taste for sin a long time ago, so have no problem with abstaining. If you have to struggle to be good, well, that's work!

 

[Kenny'sID]

I agree. It is the difference between believing in Jesus (same as the demons do) and following Him.

The opponents call us trying to save ourselves through works. Call it what you like, I don't care. All I know is that I lost the taste for sin a long time ago, so have no problem with abstaining. If you have to struggle to be good, well, that's work!

I did too. Yes, we all sin and always will, but I put the living in sin (practicing it) behind me, the bad ones that are mentioned throughout the NT, and for the most part have been successful. I really don't miss it. Now I'm working on the little things.

The best part is the peace of mind that I just don't think can be had if we are living in sin...not even close, at least it never worked for me when I did...

 

[1stcenturylady]

I did too. Yes, we all sin and always will, but I put the living in sin (practicing it) behind me, the bad ones that are mentioned throughout the NT, and for the most part have been successful. I really don't miss it. Now I'm working on the little things.

The best part is the peace of mind that I just don't think can be had if we are living in sin...not even close, at least it never worked for me when I did...

Yes, peace comes from a clear conscience.

 

[JIMINZ]

My conclusion:
1. Believers continue to sin after salvation. Their old man is not dead.

.
Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;