1 John 3: 9

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Sheep dog

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Could you respond to this?

1 John 3: 9

Whosoever is born of God....cannot sin.

Would this apply to you?

Happy New Year,
God Bless,
SBC
What is your point? Personally I think you're looking for fools to destroy.
 
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Sheep dog

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Thanks for providing how you arrive at your ability to interpret scriptures to change their meaning.

Hermeneutics, allows for men to interpret scriptures.

Scripture says understanding of Scripture comes from God, not men.



Yes, you sin no more, "IF" you abide in Him?
Correct?
So, to BE, born of God, Gods seed, is IN YOU, remains IN YOU, but you have the ability,
TO or NOT TO abide in Him?
When you Abide IN HIM, you do not sin?
And When at times you DO NOT Abide IN HIM, you do sin?

Can you simply reply yes or no to the questions?
This is a plain scripture that those who believe in Christ is born again.
There is no separation between a Christian and those born of God like you have espoused.
So, ALL Christians, believe in Christ, and when decides to quit being a Christian, it is because.....he no longer believes in Christ?
And he becomes "UNBORN of God"?



1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Philosophical hermeneutics....corrects Paul,
IS that your VIEW?
One should read 1 Corinthians 15:31 to say...

1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ. Jesus our Lord...........I SIN DAILY.



Nonsense. God made man in His Likeness of very good. God didn't reproduce Himself.
Being very good, has nothing to do with being all knowing.




Believe and become saved is already established.
Confession and presenting ones body is already established.
Loving the Lord is already established.
Freed from SIN is already established.
Becoming made WHOLE is already established.

Romans 10:9
That IF thous shalt confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God has trained him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 6: 6
.....our old man is crucified....
Roman 6: 7
For he that is dead is freed from sin

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all they soul, and with all they mind.

1 Thes 5: 23
The very God of peace SANCTIFY YOU WHOLLY;

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER IS born of God....CANNOT SIN.



So, people who go to an Alter Call, BECOME Christians, the moment they become Born Again?

What, if they had been attending the Church for a year beforehand, calling themselves Christians....were they already Christians, born again, before they Confessed? or liars for calling themselves Christians?

How does that work according to you?

God Bless,
SBC
It's people like you that make things difficult to bring anyone to Jesus. You run many wold be participants off. I think I'm about done with this site as a place for Christians. It's very unfriendly towards us.
 
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SBC

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This is a plain scripture that those who believe in Christ is born again.
There is no separation between a Christian and those born of God like you have espoused.

Christian is a generic term. It simply means you are believing the Word of God.

One day a man can believe, be called a Christian, and the next day he can stop believing.

While the man IS BELIEVING, he is being given FAITH, from God.

When the man stops believing, he stops receiving Faith, from God.

That man has FALLEN FROM FAITH.

That man can return to believing, again receive faith, from God...and fall again, and stop receiving faith from God, return to believing, and again receive faith from God.

That man can repeat this over and over, as long as he is physically alive.

Believing is what a man chooses to do or not.
Faith is what God gives a man FOR believing.
Faith is what a man LOSES, or FALLS FROM, at any time he STOPS BELIEVING.

When a man IS BELIEVING, he IS BELIEVING in the WORD OF GOD, and can be rightfully called a Christian.

When a man STOPS BELIEVING, he stops believing IN the Word of God, the man is no longer a Christian, has fallen from Faith, nor IS SAVED, or BORN AGAIN.

You speak in GENERAL TERMS, thus lose the understanding.

Men CAN believe, and STOP believing.
Christians CAN be a Christian, and STOP being a Christian.
Men CAN have faith, and STOP receiving Faith from God.

While men ARE believing, they CAN continue to sin....
Take a lesson from the disciples....
One minute they Believed, the next they denied.
One minute they Believed, the next they doubted.

This IS POSSIBLE, because their BELIEF, stems from their MIND. Then their MIND, tells them, that doesn't make sense, so they doubt.

What the disciples experienced, believing, then doubting, IS NOT UNIQUE. Many men experience the same, WHEN they ARE introduced to ANYTHING that is New or Different to them.

It is the LOGIC of THE MIND, a natural man is born with, and which IS HOW MAN WAS designed.

It is NOT exclusive to ONLY Jews or ONLY Gentiles. It is natural, and HOW natural men Learn about new things, and begin ciphering through weighing this option or that option, to logically decide what they believe, doubt, deny, or decide to fully believe or not.

Point being...ANY MAN can CLAIM to BELIEVE, based on the LOGICICAL conclusion in his MIND, and tomorrow CHANGE HIS MIND, and not BELIEVE.

ANY man can receive FAITH FROM GOD, during ANY TIME the man IS Believing, and at ANY TIME the man STOPS Believing, he stops receiving Faith, and that man HAS FALLEN FROM FAITH.

Faith is NOT a man believing.
Faith is a GIFT from God FOR WHEN a man is believing.

EVERYTHING....EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING..
CHANGES WHEN....

WHEN a believing man, BELIEVES from His HEART!!!!

HIS HEART....BELIEVES FROM HIS HEART!!!

SALVATION is AVAILABLE to EVERYONE.
Christ's giving ONCE of His Body, His BLOOD,
Is SUFFICIENT to FORGIVE a man of ALL OF his SINS, and COVER ALL of his SINS, and KEEP the man FROM EVER AGAIN SINNING.

A MAN WHO.....HAS TRUE BELIEF IN HIS HEART....and calls on the Lord NAME...

EVERYTHING CHANGES FOR THAT MAN.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to RECEIVE Forgiveness.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be Crucitife with Christ.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be SANCTIFIED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, for his soul to be SAVED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to RECEIVE God SEED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to BE FREED FROM SIN.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be baptized of the H~S.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be KEPT WITH Christ.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to BE BORN OF GOD.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to SIN NO MORE.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be REDEEMED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be GLORIFIED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, that he is AGAIN GOOD.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to FOREVER BE with the Lord, and Forever the Lord WITH him.


Romans 10:9
That IF thous shalt confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God has trained him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 6: 6
.....our old man is crucified....
Roman 6: 7
For he that is dead is freed from sin

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all they soul, and with all they mind.

1 Thes 5: 23
The very God of peace SANCTIFY YOU WHOLLY;

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER IS born of God....CANNOT SIN.


1. Hermeneutics means the art of interpretation.
You have hermeneutics whether you want to admit it or not.

Hermeneutics is an art form based on science. Science is discovery of something new and making LOGICAL MINDFUL CONCLUSIONS, if the something makes SENSE to believe it or not.

One ONLY needs to DECIDE to "TRUST" to BELIEVE Scripture, BEFORE THEY delve in.
MOST DO NOT.
A beginner WILL DO, what IS natural to them, WHICH IS, BELIEVE, what makes sense to their MIND, and REJECT what does not make sense to their MIND.
And THAT ^^ is WHY they CAN Believe and STOP Believing, OR PICK AND CHOOSE, what to BELIEVE and WHAT to reject.

Many Churches TEACH...TO DEPEND ON THE MIND.
Many Churches TEACH...This Word IS TRUE, but Other parts of Scripture are NOT True.
Many Churches TEACH...Scriptural MEANING CAN BE FIGURED out in the MIND, through philosophies and the art of Science.

The TRUTH IS:
Scripture TEACHES man from the Beginning,
What to CALL things. What things ARE similarity ALIKE, and what thing ARE NOT ALIKE.

Scripture TEACHES things that have become FAMILIAR to men, are TERMS men USE BECAUSE of what they mean, become TERMS men use IN APPLICATION to God.

Men were TAUGHT, a man WHO is the HEAD of HIS HOUSE, HIS FAMILY, HIS WIFE, HIS SERVANT.....IS THEE "father".

MOSES, FIRST APPLIED that SAME TERM, ie
"FATHER".... to GOD.
God IS; the Head of ALL the World, ALL of Creation. The Head of EVERY person, period.

Does that make God every persons BIOLOGICAL Father? No
It Does make God in Charge OF EVERYTHING.
God IS the Creator, IS LIFE, and can GIVE or TAKE Live of EVERYTHING HE has created.

2. One can be a sinner and understand many things of the Bible. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand John 3:16.

No kidding. Men can Understand "MANY THINGS" written in Scripture....BECAUSE men already KNOW, what "MANY THINGS" mean!

When the WORD "tree" appears in Scripture, a man with simple common knowledge already KNOWS what a "tree" is.

When the WORD "give" appears in Scripture,
A man with simple common knowledge already KNOW what "give" means.

And when the Words "TREE OF LIFE" appears in Scripture. Some men MAY HAVE figured out what that means. BY their MINDS? No.
BY other Scriptures that tell them. The Word of God, IS Jesus, IS LIFE, IS the WORD, IS the WORD that IS Available TO FEED MEN, and thus a man WHO EATS from the TREE OF LIFE, Eats the Word, retains sustaining LIFE.
THUS WHERE the TREE of LIFE IS, There is LIFE to be had.

And ALSO there are Scriptures, "that make NO SENSE whatsoever to a mans MIND".
For Example; "I die daily"....
I can guess. You can guess. Anyone can guess. Paul knew WHAT HE MEANT.
Point being...ANYONE can guess.
Point being...ANYONE can philosophize, and MINDFULLY CONCLUDE what Paul meant.
Does that make it TRUE? No.

Is it important to me personally? No.

But what IF there IS something WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE, that MAKES NO SENSE to MY MIND, and Scripture DOES NOT EXPLAIN IT?
WHAT IF I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS....??

Ask ANOTHER Man? See what he has guessed? Read Philosophies of OTHER men?
Believe what made sense to their minds?
Reword Scriptures SO THEY DO MAKE sense to my mind?

MEN do these things on a REGULAR everyday basis! Even Churches TEACH to do this, and have ADOPTED this AS their Teaching Basis, and CALL their Church a PARTICULAR Denomination, so others of the same MIND-SET can join in and Be a PART of the membership of fancy guess-work.

THAT LANDS A MAN, smack in the ROLL of TAKING ON GODS POSITION!

Men INTERPRETING, GODS WORD!

You teach this, and have a fancy name for it, ie, Hermeneutics...as you said, THE ART of interpretation.

THAT IS IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION of SCRIPTURE.

That which is IN SCRIPTURE, and not PLAINLY given what something means, CAN ONLY BE UNDERSTOOD....BY GOD giving the INDIVIDUAL the "HIS" UNDERSTANDING!

HOW DID Peter "KNOW" Jesus IS THE CHRIST? Peter's "mindful guess-work" ?

No. Scripture tells you, FROM WHAT SOURCE, Peter DID KNOW and FROM WHAT SOURCE, Peter DID NOT KNOW.

Matt 16: 24
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for
FLESH AND BLOOD hath NOT revealed it unto thee, BUT
My FATHER which is in Heaven.

Luke 24:45 .... VERIFIES Understanding of Scripture is FROM GOD, NOT MEN.
Is Jesus GIVING Understanding.

You teach, understanding of Scripture, is via an ART FORM, men have devised.
Philosophers teach, understanding of Scriptures, is via Logical guesswork that makes sense to the MIND.

Scripture teaches the natural carnal MIND of men IS AGAINST GOD.

Scripture teaches the natural understanding of men is but foolishness to God.

So, ya, your teaching, and you having revealed HOW you CONCLUDE the basis for your teaching, is not something I consider.

3. I already gave you scripture that show one can lose their salvation.

ANYONE, who has not RECEIVED Salvation from the Lord, CAN BE at risk of LOSING their opportunity to RECEIVE, what was FOR THEM.

SALVATION IS A GIFT FOR EVERYONE, FROM GOD. IT IS THEIRS "TO RECEIVE"....

Well, gee. If a man DOESN'T RECEIVE the Gift from God.......He LOSES IT.

Salivation IS A GIFT.....God does not FORCE ANYONE TO TAKE OR RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation HE PROVIDES!

Of course IF A MAN DOESN"T TAKE AND RECEIVE THE GIFT, they lose it.

SALVATION IS A GIFT, that a MAN MUST RECEIVE. IF the MAN DOESN"T RECEIVE IT,
(Before His bodily death) He permanently LOSES opportunity to RECEIVE THE GIFT.

Man DOES NOT "RECEIVE" the gift of Salvation....simply because One day, in his MIND he believes. Or one day he goes to a Christian Church and hears the Word of God and believes it. Or one day a man reads Scripture and thinks in his mind he believes what he reads.

SUCH a man IS RECEIVING FAITH....
NOT SALVATION!

SUCH a man CAN STOP receiving FAITH...
Because he MINDFULLY STOPS BELIEVING.

That man has FALLEN from FAITH....
He has NOT fallen from SALVATION, that he NEVER RECEIVED.
THAT man has simply jeopardized his opportunity to RECEIVE Salvation.

And as long as THAT man is BODILY ALIVE, he can return to BELIEVING, and return to being in a POSITION to RECEIVE SALVATION!

RECEIVING Salvation....has nothing whatsoever, to do with your use of common generic terms.....BELIEVING....CHRISTIAN.

It has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH....
BELIEVING IN ONES "HEART".

ANY man can say, he believes, he is a Christian....and the next day, CHANGE HIS MIND!!

God DOES NOT SEEK OUT or LISTEN to the confessions of a MANS "MIND".

God SEEKS OUT AND LISTENS to the confession of a MANS "HEART" !!

And ONCE.....ONCE....a man CONFESSES TO GOD, with HIS HEART.....EVERYTHING ABOUT THE MAN CHANGES.

He is GIVEN Forgiveness.
He is GIVEN BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
He is GIVEN SALVATION.
He is GIVEN the Seed OF GOD.
He is GIVEN eternal togetherness WITH the Lord His God!

THAT MAN CAN NOT....EVER...
NOT EVER...
Lose Salvation
Lose the Seed of God
Lose his status as a son of God.
Lose the Holy Spirit within Him.
Lose his being Freed FROM SIN.

God will not go against your freewill if you decide to change masters.

God absolutely WILL sit on the side-lines and allow a man to MINDFULLY think, believe, not believe, doubt, believe again, call himself whatever the man decides, sin, sin, sin, stand Against God, like God, not like God at any time.....

UNTIL....a man FROM HIS OWN HEART, confess BELIEF IN GOD.

Apparently you do not comprehend, when a man CALLS ON THE LORD, TO CONFESS BELIEVE IN HIS HEART....

THAT IS A MAN'S FREEWILL CHOICE!
FROM HIS HEART!!

Perhaps you NEVER LEARNED....
THE MAN IS CHOOSING TO "GIVE HIS LIFE TO GOD".

Scripture teaches....TO BE SURE of your election (your choice, exercising YOUR FREEWILL) to GIVE YOUR LIFE TO GOD...
BECAUSE...there is no CHANGING of YOUR MIND, OR your HEART thereafter.

YOU ARE CHOOSING, by your own FREEWILL, to GIVE YOUR LIFE TO GOD.

THERE ARE NO DO OVERS...ONCE YOU GIVE YOUR LIFE YOU God....YOU HAVE GIVEN God the AUTHORITY OVER YOUR LIFE.

Which goes back to ... GOD does not FORCE ANYONE to RECEIVE the gift of Salvation....
TO believe in Him...TO become his son.

EVERYTHING hinges on a mans FREEWILL, to decide from HIS HEART, TO or NOT TO, Give God Authority over the mans LIFE.

And ONCE a man DOES....with his own freewill will....say YES...God can have authority over his Life.

God TAKES THAT MANS .... YES .... from the mans HEARTS CONFESSION....and thereafter,
CONVERTS the man WITH HIS POWER, and KEEPS THE MAN converted, saved, born of God, in FULL- Faithfulness, TO GOD ONLY...
FOREVER!! THAT MAN CAN NEVER AGAIN...
Stand Against God. NEVER!

Whoever you yield yourself to is the truth me who is your master.

Beliving from ones mind, does not yield a man to God, or make God His Master.

God becomes a mans MASTER, when the man has CONFESSED in his HEART, true Belief in God.

You can call it unborn of God

I didn't call it unborn....I ASKED you if that is how it works according to you.

Your teaching, simply relies on the generic terms of Believe and Christian.
THAT, those terms, determine if one IS BORN AGAIN....while yet you admit, men can stop believing and stop being a Christian.

Which was my point in saying, to stop using general terms, and be specific.

Because a man WHO IS believing IN HIS HEART, is totally different than a man confessing belief in HIS MIND!

but it is not like an earthly birth where you can be born with nay only one time. It's a moral and spiritual decision man makes according to his freewill. He can lose his salvation more than once just like the illustration Jesus gave about the woman and the lost coin which had to deal with salvation in the context.

Fully aware......and fully aware of HOW AND WHY!

Fully aware....A man who has confessed TO GOD, BELIEF from his heart HEART, NEVER is in jeopardy of losing His Salvation.

5. Listen, there are people who are mere professors and not true Christians.
Calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean you are. One must repent but one must also have fruit and the markings for living as a Christian.

You WANT the term Christian to mean, a man who is saved and born again....but it doesn't mean that.

A Christian CAN BE, a saved and born again man....

However a Christian IS ALSO any man, who is believing the Word of God....and at any time can STOP believing.

A Christian IS a follower of Christ's teachings.
A FOLLOWER, does NOT EQUAL saved and born again.

A BORN AGAIN CHRISITAN, REVEALS, that man HAS Given his LIFE to Christ.

Which is totally DIFFERENT from a milquetoast Christian, believing, doubting, following along, rebelling against belief in Gods Word, then believing some things, then not, then kind of, maybe believing.....
HE ALSO is a Christian, BUT NOT a SAVED OR BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN...AND yes, he can sin, by doubting belief in God.

IF he were ...you would NEVER OBSERVE, men going to an alter call.
Which IS SIMPLY that "Christian", that follower of Gods Word, tha man believing Gods Word..... exercising his own FREEWILL, to go from MINDFULLY following the Word of God....TO Heartfully, BELIEVING, and SUBMITTING His LIFE TO GOD...THAT GOD, will take CONTROL, and GIVE THE MAN FULL and FOREVER FAITHFULNESS TO GOD ONLY.

Men CAN NOT HAVE FULL FAITHFULNESS in God, by their own MIND'S thoughts, or by their own HEART'S thought, by Laws, by Commands, by Gods WISHING, by the man WISHING.....

THAT is effected SOLEY By a man confessing belief in his Heart.....AND GOD TAKING Authority over that mans LIFE, and GIVING the man, the things that God has determined, MAKE THE MAN ACCEPTABLY WHOLE...
TO HIM!

It does not matter IF I am acceptable to YOU.
It does not matter IF you quote umpteen Scriptures to ME.
It does not matter if you talk about men who CAN lose their salvation...CAN fall from faith;
I already KNOW, MEN WHO ARE NOT SAVED, and MEN WHO STOP believing...DO lose their salvation and DO fall from faith...
And I already KNOW that DOES NOT APPLY,
TO a man that confessed true belief in his Heart TO GOD, and God gave the man Salvation and Full Faithfulness, FOREVER.

There is a justification of works as well as a justification of grace and they are two different things.

Yes, already know, and already spoke to that.

Justification of grace is God's approval of salvation and justification of works deals with the fruit that shows you have cooperated with God by believing in faith.

Justification IS WHAT GOD GIVES..
Confess to God, true belief in your heart...
God Justifies the man to be made WHOLE.

Do works that Glorify Gods Name...
God Justifies the man to receive REWARDS.

The same way in your daily life you have to be obedient and faithful and show fruit.

Justification of me being MADE WHOLE IS ALREADY EFFECTED, It's DONE. It is Permanent, and can NOT BECOME lost or undone.

Justification of WORKS?
I don't HAVE TO SHOW ANYTHING!
I don't HAVE TO DO ANYTHING!
I don't HAVE TO SPEAK HIS WORD, teach others ABOUT GOD, NOTHING!

Scripture simply TEACHES, it is to my own benefit to DO those things....AND I shall be REWARDED "FOR" doing those things.

It is NOT a SIN for me to NOT DO THOSE THINGS. It is simply a LOSS TO ME of rewards I COULD HAVE GAINED.
IT HAS nothing whatsoever to do with MY SALVATION already BEING given me FOREVER.

Your teaching is that TO NOT DO those things, IS A SIN AGAINST GOD, same as the Jews teach, according to their Law.

However I was JUSTIFIED to RECEIVE Salvation, and did, and it is permanent.
I was JUSTIFIED to Receive the SEED of God, and did, and it is permanent.

AND ANY WORKS, I DO, I shall be JUSTIFIED, BY GOD, to receive, FROM GOD, rewards, FOR WORKS, I DO, that Glorify HIS NAME.

It does not matter, if I DO WORKS, if I DO NOT DO WORKS, IF you KNOW, IF you Don't KNOW. You can NOTICE anything I do, and NOT Approve. You can mention to me, your disapproval. However IF you INCLUDE, in your disapproval...that IT IS A SIN....that IS A LIE.

It would BE A LIE...Because you FULL WELL KNOW, I am not a Jew, or subject to their LAWS.

It would BE A LIE...Because you FULL WELL KNOW, I have given MY LIFE to the Lord, and HE has freed me from BEING ABLE TO SIN.

JESUS did not destroy the LAW. NOR was the LAW given to Gentiles. Jewish laws dictate, BEHAVIORS are SINS.
Jesus taught, Confess BELIEF in your Heart and BECOME FREED FROM SIN, to SIN NO MORE.

6. I do not believe that just because you sin as a Christian you are going to hell.

I do not believe ANY MAN who has confessed to the Lord, true heartful belief in the Lord is going to hell, no matter what he calls himself.

You teach men who believe, AND SIN, are justified to be SAVED.
I teach men who call on the Lord, and confess true BELIEF in their heart, are justified to be SAVED, and ARE SAVED and BORN AGAIN, and SIN NO MORE.

You teach men who believe, AND SIN, "ARE" Saved, BY WHAT, they call themselves.
I teach men who call on the Lord, with confession of True belief in their Hearts ARE saved, and SIN NO MORE.

Your teaching, is SAVED and BORN AGAIN MEN, CAN change Masters, BY their FREEWILL, and CAN SIN.
I teach, a man exercised HIS OWN freewill, to Give God Authority over the mans LIFE...
THAT GOD accepts that Authority and makes the man WHOLE forever, and KEEPS the man IN STANDING WITH GOD FOREVER, and SINS no more.

God knows your heart. I don't believe you just keep rededicating your life all the time in the context of being saved.

Yes. God knows your heart. And God does not FORCE anyone to GIVE Him Authority to make the man Converted. THAT is the mans FREEWILL CHOICE.
And requires the man to exercise his own FREEWILL TO or NOT TO Give God Authority to convert the man.

7. I have already explained the paradox of 1 John 3:9 and you don't want to believe that it is at odds with 1 John 2:2.
Christians can sin so 1 John 3:9 cannot mean that you never have the possibility to sin no more.

Yes, you have explained, MINDFULLY, HOW you can DIVERT from Believing what Scripture Plainly SAYS.

THAT is the DOWNFALL of leaning ON philosophies and science and art and the minds understanding, of what Scripture means.

THAT is precisely WHY, there ARE umpteen categories, called "dominations", ALL claiming to be Christians. THEY ALL have ONE core Belief...that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Died and rose again.....

But they DO NOT ALL HAVE ONE CORE "TRUST", that EVERY WORD OF SCRIPTURE IS TRUE.

An enormous amount of time is SPENT by numerous "dominations", teaching, HOW TO, NOT "TRUST" every word of Scripture IS TRUE. HOW TO change the TRUTH of GOD, into a LIE.
HOW TO TRUST the WORD of the CREATED, over the WORD OF the CREATOR.

I say the WORD of GOD IS TRUE, regardless if a man understands it.
I say the WORD of GOD, says a man BORN OF GOD, CANNOT SIN, BECAUSE Scripture, SAYS SO.
I have studied and ASKED God to show me, WHY, HOW, WHEN....and TRUST HIS Understanding, I asked for, and received FROM HIM.

You make it clear, you receive your understanding, by your being taught HOW MEN can interpret Scripture, and conclude logical understanding in your mind.

You make it clear, you can not TRUST to believe, the plain Words in Scripture.

That WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD, CAN NOT SIN.

You can't trust that IS True, so you give your philosophical understanding to MAKE "your TRUTH" valid, and Gods WORD in Scripture, INVALID. And you absolutely DO GIVE, your basis...mans interpretation....and I absolutely BELIEVE that IS what you do....and precisely WHY, I absolutely disagree with you.

And BECAUSE, I TRUST TO BELIEVE the Word of God, plainly stated in Scripture, and plainly I SAY SO....well, then....the diversion begins...
Another can SIMPLY be AGAINST me...

However Scripture ALSO teaches, it is not me one is supposed to be deciding to STAND WITH, nor is it me, one is Against when they do not Trust my belief in the Word of God....

IT IS the one himself, Standing Against the Word of God.

1 Samuel 8: 7
.....they have not rejected thee, (SAMUEL, a man) they have reject me...(the LORD, says the LORD)

8. John says all unrighteousness is sin. What do think is unrighteousness? Make a list.

I don't require a LIST. I have been cleansed in Jesus' BLOOD from ALL unrighteousness, says the Lord, WHO IS THE TRUTH, whether or not the CREATED, can believe it!

Do you worry, fret,

No. Do I remind my deaf child, driving across the county alone, how stupid the majority of hearing people are, texting, and relying on other people to honk their horn, signal them with a NOISE, when they have stopped paying attention to driving, because they are paying attention to their phone? Yes I do.
Because my child has not experienced hearing, or being a hearing person, to have a natural nature of what hearing people instinctively and naturally do and respond to.
Do I worry? About what I do not know? No.
Am I cautious, by the knowledge and experience I do know? Yes.

get angry,

Sure I get angry at times. So what? That is not a sin.

obey God in all things?

I stand with God IN HIM. His WORD IS TRUTH, period. "HIS" understanding IS PARAMOUNT!
Does EVERY WORD OF GOD APPLY TO ME?
No.
Much of Scripture, THE WORD OF GOD, DOES NOT APPLY to me.
Much of Scripture, THE WORLD OF GOD, DOES APPLY to men WHO DO NOT have Heartfelt Belief in God. THAT does NOT Apply to me.

Do you ever miss the mark about anything?

No. And the WHY is because I chose of my own FREEWILL to give God Authority over my Life. I have not the natural Power, to keep myself, unto Him Only. He is the ONE who KEEPS ME UNTO HIM ONLY.

Do I STILL HAVE SIN IN MY BODY? Of course. There was NO MAGIC WAND that makes SIN in a man Disappear.

A mans SIN is FORGIVEN, by God. He remembers the mans sin NO MORE.

Does that mean MEN FORGET? No.
Does that mean CONSEQUENCES MEN exact toward other men are forgiven or forgotten?
No.
Does that mean, all your financial debts are forgiven, and because you Can't pay, you don't have to pay? No.
Does that mean, you are relieved of serving a prison term, ie a Consequence pronounced on you BY MEN? No.

IOW - YOUR sin against God is forgiven, BY GOD, and you sin no more.

IOW - You may continue to experience consequences from BEFORE you were saved.
IF you murdered, IF you cheated on your spouse, IF you stole something, IF you did sneaking things.....you will still have to deal with the consequences....

And HOW HANDY to KNOW, Because you are SAVED, you have the Lord to comfort you, WHILE you have to deal with the consequences.

MY behavior toward other men AT ANY TIME can have NEGATIVE consequence, FROM the man. So what? That is my burden to bear.
The Lord Doesn't FIX IT, He teaches me, HOW TO FIX IT, and HOW TO AVOID IT, and IS MY comfort, WHILE, I fix it....and WISDOM is the process of Learning ....
From others experience...
Or my own experiences...
TO know the consequence, and decide IF I AM WILLING TO bear the burden of the consequence OR NOT.

IT HAS NOTHING to do with my Salvation or Being Born of God, or Sin.
(Unless you are a Jew, under Jewish law).

IT HAS Everything to do with Learning HOW TO SERVE the Lord, in ways that Glorify His Name.....or not, and suffer the consequences of the burdens BY OTHER MEN.....and LOSE Rewards From God.

Nothing personal to you Jerry. I recognize WHAT you believe, and WHY, by your own testimony. And I DISAGREE with you.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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What is your point?

My point was, I asked you a question, and if you could answer the question.

Your point is, No you would not answer the question.

Personally I think you're looking for fools to destroy.

Your personal opinion was not solicited.
If you understood Scripture, you would already KNOW, I have not the power to destroy anything.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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This is a plain scripture that those who believe in Christ is born again.

Then it is without merit, for you to know, your MIND has thoughts and the natural spirit in your HEART has thoughts.

Plain Scripture that comes AFTER, one knows, there are MIND-ful thoughts, AND HEART-ful thoughts.....AND....

THE CARNAL MINDS OF MEN ARE AGAINST GOD.....AND GOD REQUIRES A CONFESSION TO HIM FROM A MANS HEART'S thoughts.....

You would simply read Scripture....as you have, and say, anyone who believes in Christ is born again......WHICH ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.....MUST BE a man WHO BELIEVES in CHIRST IN HIS HEART.

That does not need to be TOLD to you again, it was already ESTABLISHED in Scripture.

As well it is already ESTABLISHED in Scripture, SOME MEN DO believe in their MINDS...and CAN AT ANY TIME, Mind-fully, STOP believing.....yet NOTHING says they ARE saved or born again.

There is no separation between a Christian and those born of God

Calling yourself a Christian IS NOT HOW OR WHY a man is born of God. TO pretend it is, is FALSE.

Scripture NEVER teaches, to CALL yourself a Christian and you will be BORN AGAIN!

Scripture NEVER teaches, ALL people calling themselves Christians ARE BORN AGAIN!

Scripture SPECIFICALLY TEACHES, one MUST believe IN THEIR HEART.

Scripture SPECIFICALLY TEACHES, THE CARNAL MIND IS AGAINST GOD.

Scripture SPECIFICALLY TEACHES, GOD SEEKS the thoughts of the HEART....NOT THE MIND!

WHEN YOU, simply say, ANYONE who believes, is BORN OF GOD...

THAT is not TRUE....BECAUSE MEN WHO BELIEVE ONLY BY THE THOUGHTS OF THEIR MIND, ARE NOT SAVED.

YOU MAKE NO distinction whatsoever.
Thus your teaching is not True.

like you have espoused.

Yes, as I have espoused IS taught in Scripture as GODS WAY.

It's people like you that make things difficult to bring anyone to Jesus.

It's people like me WHO TEACH the TRUTH..
And WHEN a man HAS THE TRUTH, He therefore is armed with the TRUTH, BEFORE he skips on down to the alter to make his confession FROM HIS HEART.

There are NUMEROUS men who have heard and been taught as you teach...

And have said their oooooh ya, Amen, I believe, yahoo......and get their water baptism....and announced they are SAVED and BORN AGAIN....whoooo hooo...

And then .... oops, a week later, years later, then announce they DO NOT BELIEVE...

AND WHAT ABOUT THEM? Are they "unsaved"? no. Are they "un-born again"? No.

They were Never saved to begin with. They were Never born again to begin with. Because they NEVER confessed with their Hearts true thoughts.

Well why not? Because people like you, teach, they only need to believe...WITHOUT impressing or identifying....it is with TRUE THOUGHTS OF ONES HEART, that a man confesses BELIEF IN GOD, TO GOD.

And why would a man new to hearing about Christ Jesus, need to know that? Be told that?

Because the teacher is supposed to be smarter than the student. The teacher is supposed to know, what the man has done his whole life is what is natural to men.....
Which IS, THINK with HIS MIND, make decisions based on what HIS MINDS thoughts are!

It is the teachers responsibility BY taking on the role of teacher....to make sure, a person NEW to hearing and learing about Christ Jesus....HAS the FACTS of what is required should the man choose to Give His Life to the Lord.

Because it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the BELIEF and THOUGHTS of a mans MIND!

You run many wold be participants off.

They have freewill choice to hear, to go to scripture and verify, or walk away, just as any man did standing in the crowd listening to Jesus speak, also have the freewill to walk away, as many did.

I think I'm about done with this site as a place for Christians. It's very unfriendly towards us.

THAT is your choice. Just as it is your choice to TRUST Scripture is TRUE or NOT.

Just as it is your choice to disagree with me, BECAUSE I TRUST Scripture IS TRUE.

Just as it is your choice to go and Verify what I have said IS taught IN Scripture...or not.

You being here or not, is your freewill choice.
And what you do or do not do has no affect on me whatsoever....what you do or do not only affects you.

Don't let your heart be troubled, God is faithful to His Word.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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jerry kelso

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Christian is a generic term. It simply means you are believing the Word of God.

One day a man can believe, be called a Christian, and the next day he can stop believing.

While the man IS BELIEVING, he is being given FAITH, from God.

When the man stops believing, he stops receiving Faith, from God.

That man has FALLEN FROM FAITH.

That man can return to believing, again receive faith, from God...and fall again, and stop receiving faith from God, return to believing, and again receive faith from God.

That man can repeat this over and over, as long as he is physically alive.

Believing is what a man chooses to do or not.
Faith is what God gives a man FOR believing.
Faith is what a man LOSES, or FALLS FROM, at any time he STOPS BELIEVING.

When a man IS BELIEVING, he IS BELIEVING in the WORD OF GOD, and can be rightfully called a Christian.

When a man STOPS BELIEVING, he stops believing IN the Word of God, the man is no longer a Christian, has fallen from Faith, nor IS SAVED, or BORN AGAIN.

You speak in GENERAL TERMS, thus lose the understanding.

Men CAN believe, and STOP believing.
Christians CAN be a Christian, and STOP being a Christian.
Men CAN have faith, and STOP receiving Faith from God.

While men ARE believing, they CAN continue to sin....
Take a lesson from the disciples....
One minute they Believed, the next they denied.
One minute they Believed, the next they doubted.

This IS POSSIBLE, because their BELIEF, stems from their MIND. Then their MIND, tells them, that doesn't make sense, so they doubt.

What the disciples experienced, believing, then doubting, IS NOT UNIQUE. Many men experience the same, WHEN they ARE introduced to ANYTHING that is New or Different to them.

It is the LOGIC of THE MIND, a natural man is born with, and which IS HOW MAN WAS designed.

It is NOT exclusive to ONLY Jews or ONLY Gentiles. It is natural, and HOW natural men Learn about new things, and begin ciphering through weighing this option or that option, to logically decide what they believe, doubt, deny, or decide to fully believe or not.

Point being...ANY MAN can CLAIM to BELIEVE, based on the LOGICICAL conclusion in his MIND, and tomorrow CHANGE HIS MIND, and not BELIEVE.

ANY man can receive FAITH FROM GOD, during ANY TIME the man IS Believing, and at ANY TIME the man STOPS Believing, he stops receiving Faith, and that man HAS FALLEN FROM FAITH.

Faith is NOT a man believing.
Faith is a GIFT from God FOR WHEN a man is believing.

EVERYTHING....EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING..
CHANGES WHEN....

WHEN a believing man, BELIEVES from His HEART!!!!

HIS HEART....BELIEVES FROM HIS HEART!!!

SALVATION is AVAILABLE to EVERYONE.
Christ's giving ONCE of His Body, His BLOOD,
Is SUFFICIENT to FORGIVE a man of ALL OF his SINS, and COVER ALL of his SINS, and KEEP the man FROM EVER AGAIN SINNING.

A MAN WHO.....HAS TRUE BELIEF IN HIS HEART....and calls on the Lord NAME...

EVERYTHING CHANGES FOR THAT MAN.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to RECEIVE Forgiveness.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be Crucitife with Christ.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be SANCTIFIED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, for his soul to be SAVED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to RECEIVE God SEED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to BE FREED FROM SIN.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be baptized of the H~S.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be KEPT WITH Christ.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to BE BORN OF GOD.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to SIN NO MORE.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be REDEEMED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be GLORIFIED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, that he is AGAIN GOOD.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to FOREVER BE with the Lord, and Forever the Lord WITH him.


Romans 10:9
That IF thous shalt confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God has trained him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 6: 6
.....our old man is crucified....
Roman 6: 7
For he that is dead is freed from sin

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all they soul, and with all they mind.

1 Thes 5: 23
The very God of peace SANCTIFY YOU WHOLLY;

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER IS born of God....CANNOT SIN.




Hermeneutics is an art form based on science. Science is discovery of something new and making LOGICAL MINDFUL CONCLUSIONS, if the something makes SENSE to believe it or not.

One ONLY needs to DECIDE to "TRUST" to BELIEVE Scripture, BEFORE THEY delve in.
MOST DO NOT.
A beginner WILL DO, what IS natural to them, WHICH IS, BELIEVE, what makes sense to their MIND, and REJECT what does not make sense to their MIND.
And THAT ^^ is WHY they CAN Believe and STOP Believing, OR PICK AND CHOOSE, what to BELIEVE and WHAT to reject.

Many Churches TEACH...TO DEPEND ON THE MIND.
Many Churches TEACH...This Word IS TRUE, but Other parts of Scripture are NOT True.
Many Churches TEACH...Scriptural MEANING CAN BE FIGURED out in the MIND, through philosophies and the art of Science.

The TRUTH IS:
Scripture TEACHES man from the Beginning,
What to CALL things. What things ARE similarity ALIKE, and what thing ARE NOT ALIKE.

Scripture TEACHES things that have become FAMILIAR to men, are TERMS men USE BECAUSE of what they mean, become TERMS men use IN APPLICATION to God.

Men were TAUGHT, a man WHO is the HEAD of HIS HOUSE, HIS FAMILY, HIS WIFE, HIS SERVANT.....IS THEE "father".

MOSES, FIRST APPLIED that SAME TERM, ie
"FATHER".... to GOD.
God IS; the Head of ALL the World, ALL of Creation. The Head of EVERY person, period.

Does that make God every persons BIOLOGICAL Father? No
It Does make God in Charge OF EVERYTHING.
God IS the Creator, IS LIFE, and can GIVE or TAKE Live of EVERYTHING HE has created.



No kidding. Men can Understand "MANY THINGS" written in Scripture....BECAUSE men already KNOW, what "MANY THINGS" mean!

When the WORD "tree" appears in Scripture, a man with simple common knowledge already KNOWS what a "tree" is.

When the WORD "give" appears in Scripture,
A man with simple common knowledge already KNOW what "give" means.

And when the Words "TREE OF LIFE" appears in Scripture. Some men MAY HAVE figured out what that means. BY their MINDS? No.
BY other Scriptures that tell them. The Word of God, IS Jesus, IS LIFE, IS the WORD, IS the WORD that IS Available TO FEED MEN, and thus a man WHO EATS from the TREE OF LIFE, Eats the Word, retains sustaining LIFE.
THUS WHERE the TREE of LIFE IS, There is LIFE to be had.

And ALSO there are Scriptures, "that make NO SENSE whatsoever to a mans MIND".
For Example; "I die daily"....
I can guess. You can guess. Anyone can guess. Paul knew WHAT HE MEANT.
Point being...ANYONE can guess.
Point being...ANYONE can philosophize, and MINDFULLY CONCLUDE what Paul meant.
Does that make it TRUE? No.

Is it important to me personally? No.

But what IF there IS something WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE, that MAKES NO SENSE to MY MIND, and Scripture DOES NOT EXPLAIN IT?
WHAT IF I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS....??

Ask ANOTHER Man? See what he has guessed? Read Philosophies of OTHER men?
Believe what made sense to their minds?
Reword Scriptures SO THEY DO MAKE sense to my mind?

MEN do these things on a REGULAR everyday basis! Even Churches TEACH to do this, and have ADOPTED this AS their Teaching Basis, and CALL their Church a PARTICULAR Denomination, so others of the same MIND-SET can join in and Be a PART of the membership of fancy guess-work.

THAT LANDS A MAN, smack in the ROLL of TAKING ON GODS POSITION!

Men INTERPRETING, GODS WORD!

You teach this, and have a fancy name for it, ie, Hermeneutics...as you said, THE ART of interpretation.

THAT IS IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION of SCRIPTURE.

That which is IN SCRIPTURE, and not PLAINLY given what something means, CAN ONLY BE UNDERSTOOD....BY GOD giving the INDIVIDUAL the "HIS" UNDERSTANDING!

HOW DID Peter "KNOW" Jesus IS THE CHRIST? Peter's "mindful guess-work" ?

No. Scripture tells you, FROM WHAT SOURCE, Peter DID KNOW and FROM WHAT SOURCE, Peter DID NOT KNOW.

Matt 16: 24
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for
FLESH AND BLOOD hath NOT revealed it unto thee, BUT
My FATHER which is in Heaven.

Luke 24:45 .... VERIFIES Understanding of Scripture is FROM GOD, NOT MEN.
Is Jesus GIVING Understanding.

You teach, understanding of Scripture, is via an ART FORM, men have devised.
Philosophers teach, understanding of Scriptures, is via Logical guesswork that makes sense to the MIND.

Scripture teaches the natural carnal MIND of men IS AGAINST GOD.

Scripture teaches the natural understanding of men is but foolishness to God.

So, ya, your teaching, and you having revealed HOW you CONCLUDE the basis for your teaching, is not something I consider.



ANYONE, who has not RECEIVED Salvation from the Lord, CAN BE at risk of LOSING their opportunity to RECEIVE, what was FOR THEM.

SALVATION IS A GIFT FOR EVERYONE, FROM GOD. IT IS THEIRS "TO RECEIVE"....

Well, gee. If a man DOESN'T RECEIVE the Gift from God.......He LOSES IT.

Salivation IS A GIFT.....God does not FORCE ANYONE TO TAKE OR RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation HE PROVIDES!

Of course IF A MAN DOESN"T TAKE AND RECEIVE THE GIFT, they lose it.

SALVATION IS A GIFT, that a MAN MUST RECEIVE. IF the MAN DOESN"T RECEIVE IT,
(Before His bodily death) He permanently LOSES opportunity to RECEIVE THE GIFT.

Man DOES NOT "RECEIVE" the gift of Salvation....simply because One day, in his MIND he believes. Or one day he goes to a Christian Church and hears the Word of God and believes it. Or one day a man reads Scripture and thinks in his mind he believes what he reads.

SUCH a man IS RECEIVING FAITH....
NOT SALVATION!

SUCH a man CAN STOP receiving FAITH...
Because he MINDFULLY STOPS BELIEVING.

That man has FALLEN from FAITH....
He has NOT fallen from SALVATION, that he NEVER RECEIVED.
THAT man has simply jeopardized his opportunity to RECEIVE Salvation.

And as long as THAT man is BODILY ALIVE, he can return to BELIEVING, and return to being in a POSITION to RECEIVE SALVATION!

RECEIVING Salvation....has nothing whatsoever, to do with your use of common generic terms.....BELIEVING....CHRISTIAN.

It has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH....
BELIEVING IN ONES "HEART".

ANY man can say, he believes, he is a Christian....and the next day, CHANGE HIS MIND!!

God DOES NOT SEEK OUT or LISTEN to the confessions of a MANS "MIND".

God SEEKS OUT AND LISTENS to the confession of a MANS "HEART" !!

And ONCE.....ONCE....a man CONFESSES TO GOD, with HIS HEART.....EVERYTHING ABOUT THE MAN CHANGES.

He is GIVEN Forgiveness.
He is GIVEN BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
He is GIVEN SALVATION.
He is GIVEN the Seed OF GOD.
He is GIVEN eternal togetherness WITH the Lord His God!

THAT MAN CAN NOT....EVER...
NOT EVER...
Lose Salvation
Lose the Seed of God
Lose his status as a son of God.
Lose the Holy Spirit within Him.
Lose his being Freed FROM SIN.



God absolutely WILL sit on the side-lines and allow a man to MINDFULLY think, believe, not believe, doubt, believe again, call himself whatever the man decides, sin, sin, sin, stand Against God, like God, not like God at any time.....

UNTIL....a man FROM HIS OWN HEART, confess BELIEF IN GOD.

Apparently you do not comprehend, when a man CALLS ON THE LORD, TO CONFESS BELIEVE IN HIS HEART....

THAT IS A MAN'S FREEWILL CHOICE!
FROM HIS HEART!!

Perhaps you NEVER LEARNED....
THE MAN IS CHOOSING TO "GIVE HIS LIFE TO GOD".

Scripture teaches....TO BE SURE of your election (your choice, exercising YOUR FREEWILL) to GIVE YOUR LIFE TO GOD...
BECAUSE...there is no CHANGING of YOUR MIND, OR your HEART thereafter.

YOU ARE CHOOSING, by your own FREEWILL, to GIVE YOUR LIFE TO GOD.

THERE ARE NO DO OVERS...ONCE YOU GIVE YOUR LIFE YOU God....YOU HAVE GIVEN God the AUTHORITY OVER YOUR LIFE.

Which goes back to ... GOD does not FORCE ANYONE to RECEIVE the gift of Salvation....
TO believe in Him...TO become his son.

EVERYTHING hinges on a mans FREEWILL, to decide from HIS HEART, TO or NOT TO, Give God Authority over the mans LIFE.

And ONCE a man DOES....with his own freewill will....say YES...God can have authority over his Life.

God TAKES THAT MANS .... YES .... from the mans HEARTS CONFESSION....and thereafter,
CONVERTS the man WITH HIS POWER, and KEEPS THE MAN converted, saved, born of God, in FULL- Faithfulness, TO GOD ONLY...
FOREVER!! THAT MAN CAN NEVER AGAIN...
Stand Against God. NEVER!



Beliving from ones mind, does not yield a man to God, or make God His Master.

God becomes a mans MASTER, when the man has CONFESSED in his HEART, true Belief in God.



I didn't call it unborn....I ASKED you if that is how it works according to you.

Your teaching, simply relies on the generic terms of Believe and Christian.
THAT, those terms, determine if one IS BORN AGAIN....while yet you admit, men can stop believing and stop being a Christian.

Which was my point in saying, to stop using general terms, and be specific.

Because a man WHO IS believing IN HIS HEART, is totally different than a man confessing belief in HIS MIND!



Fully aware......and fully aware of HOW AND WHY!

Fully aware....A man who has confessed TO GOD, BELIEF from his heart HEART, NEVER is in jeopardy of losing His Salvation.



You WANT the term Christian to mean, a man who is saved and born again....but it doesn't mean that.

A Christian CAN BE, a saved and born again man....

However a Christian IS ALSO any man, who is believing the Word of God....and at any time can STOP believing.

A Christian IS a follower of Christ's teachings.
A FOLLOWER, does NOT EQUAL saved and born again.

A BORN AGAIN CHRISITAN, REVEALS, that man HAS Given his LIFE to Christ.

Which is totally DIFFERENT from a milquetoast Christian, believing, doubting, following along, rebelling against belief in Gods Word, then believing some things, then not, then kind of, maybe believing.....
HE ALSO is a Christian, BUT NOT a SAVED OR BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN...AND yes, he can sin, by doubting belief in God.

IF he were ...you would NEVER OBSERVE, men going to an alter call.
Which IS SIMPLY that "Christian", that follower of Gods Word, tha man believing Gods Word..... exercising his own FREEWILL, to go from MINDFULLY following the Word of God....TO Heartfully, BELIEVING, and SUBMITTING His LIFE TO GOD...THAT GOD, will take CONTROL, and GIVE THE MAN FULL and FOREVER FAITHFULNESS TO GOD ONLY.

Men CAN NOT HAVE FULL FAITHFULNESS in God, by their own MIND'S thoughts, or by their own HEART'S thought, by Laws, by Commands, by Gods WISHING, by the man WISHING.....

THAT is effected SOLEY By a man confessing belief in his Heart.....AND GOD TAKING Authority over that mans LIFE, and GIVING the man, the things that God has determined, MAKE THE MAN ACCEPTABLY WHOLE...
TO HIM!

It does not matter IF I am acceptable to YOU.
It does not matter IF you quote umpteen Scriptures to ME.
It does not matter if you talk about men who CAN lose their salvation...CAN fall from faith;
I already KNOW, MEN WHO ARE NOT SAVED, and MEN WHO STOP believing...DO lose their salvation and DO fall from faith...
And I already KNOW that DOES NOT APPLY,
TO a man that confessed true belief in his Heart TO GOD, and God gave the man Salvation and Full Faithfulness, FOREVER.



Yes, already know, and already spoke to that.



Justification IS WHAT GOD GIVES..
Confess to God, true belief in your heart...
God Justifies the man to be made WHOLE.

Do works that Glorify Gods Name...
God Justifies the man to receive REWARDS.



Justification of me being MADE WHOLE IS ALREADY EFFECTED, It's DONE. It is Permanent, and can NOT BECOME lost or undone.

Justification of WORKS?
I don't HAVE TO SHOW ANYTHING!
I don't HAVE TO DO ANYTHING!
I don't HAVE TO SPEAK HIS WORD, teach others ABOUT GOD, NOTHING!

Scripture simply TEACHES, it is to my own benefit to DO those things....AND I shall be REWARDED "FOR" doing those things.

It is NOT a SIN for me to NOT DO THOSE THINGS. It is simply a LOSS TO ME of rewards I COULD HAVE GAINED.
IT HAS nothing whatsoever to do with MY SALVATION already BEING given me FOREVER.

Your teaching is that TO NOT DO those things, IS A SIN AGAINST GOD, same as the Jews teach, according to their Law.

However I was JUSTIFIED to RECEIVE Salvation, and did, and it is permanent.
I was JUSTIFIED to Receive the SEED of God, and did, and it is permanent.

AND ANY WORKS, I DO, I shall be JUSTIFIED, BY GOD, to receive, FROM GOD, rewards, FOR WORKS, I DO, that Glorify HIS NAME.

It does not matter, if I DO WORKS, if I DO NOT DO WORKS, IF you KNOW, IF you Don't KNOW. You can NOTICE anything I do, and NOT Approve. You can mention to me, your disapproval. However IF you INCLUDE, in your disapproval...that IT IS A SIN....that IS A LIE.

It would BE A LIE...Because you FULL WELL KNOW, I am not a Jew, or subject to their LAWS.

It would BE A LIE...Because you FULL WELL KNOW, I have given MY LIFE to the Lord, and HE has freed me from BEING ABLE TO SIN.

JESUS did not destroy the LAW. NOR was the LAW given to Gentiles. Jewish laws dictate, BEHAVIORS are SINS.
Jesus taught, Confess BELIEF in your Heart and BECOME FREED FROM SIN, to SIN NO MORE.



I do not believe ANY MAN who has confessed to the Lord, true heartful belief in the Lord is going to hell, no matter what he calls himself.

You teach men who believe, AND SIN, are justified to be SAVED.
I teach men who call on the Lord, and confess true BELIEF in their heart, are justified to be SAVED, and ARE SAVED and BORN AGAIN, and SIN NO MORE.

You teach men who believe, AND SIN, "ARE" Saved, BY WHAT, they call themselves.
I teach men who call on the Lord, with confession of True belief in their Hearts ARE saved, and SIN NO MORE.

Your teaching, is SAVED and BORN AGAIN MEN, CAN change Masters, BY their FREEWILL, and CAN SIN.
I teach, a man exercised HIS OWN freewill, to Give God Authority over the mans LIFE...
THAT GOD accepts that Authority and makes the man WHOLE forever, and KEEPS the man IN STANDING WITH GOD FOREVER, and SINS no more.



Yes. God knows your heart. And God does not FORCE anyone to GIVE Him Authority to make the man Converted. THAT is the mans FREEWILL CHOICE.
And requires the man to exercise his own FREEWILL TO or NOT TO Give God Authority to convert the man.



Yes, you have explained, MINDFULLY, HOW you can DIVERT from Believing what Scripture Plainly SAYS.

THAT is the DOWNFALL of leaning ON philosophies and science and art and the minds understanding, of what Scripture means.

THAT is precisely WHY, there ARE umpteen categories, called "dominations", ALL claiming to be Christians. THEY ALL have ONE core Belief...that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Died and rose again.....

But they DO NOT ALL HAVE ONE CORE "TRUST", that EVERY WORD OF SCRIPTURE IS TRUE.

An enormous amount of time is SPENT by numerous "dominations", teaching, HOW TO, NOT "TRUST" every word of Scripture IS TRUE. HOW TO change the TRUTH of GOD, into a LIE.
HOW TO TRUST the WORD of the CREATED, over the WORD OF the CREATOR.

I say the WORD of GOD IS TRUE, regardless if a man understands it.
I say the WORD of GOD, says a man BORN OF GOD, CANNOT SIN, BECAUSE Scripture, SAYS SO.
I have studied and ASKED God to show me, WHY, HOW, WHEN....and TRUST HIS Understanding, I asked for, and received FROM HIM.

You make it clear, you receive your understanding, by your being taught HOW MEN can interpret Scripture, and conclude logical understanding in your mind.

You make it clear, you can not TRUST to believe, the plain Words in Scripture.

That WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD, CAN NOT SIN.

You can't trust that IS True, so you give your philosophical understanding to MAKE "your TRUTH" valid, and Gods WORD in Scripture, INVALID. And you absolutely DO GIVE, your basis...mans interpretation....and I absolutely BELIEVE that IS what you do....and precisely WHY, I absolutely disagree with you.

And BECAUSE, I TRUST TO BELIEVE the Word of God, plainly stated in Scripture, and plainly I SAY SO....well, then....the diversion begins...
Another can SIMPLY be AGAINST me...

However Scripture ALSO teaches, it is not me one is supposed to be deciding to STAND WITH, nor is it me, one is Against when they do not Trust my belief in the Word of God....

IT IS the one himself, Standing Against the Word of God.

1 Samuel 8: 7
.....they have not rejected thee, (SAMUEL, a man) they have reject me...(the LORD, says the LORD)



I don't require a LIST. I have been cleansed in Jesus' BLOOD from ALL unrighteousness, says the Lord, WHO IS THE TRUTH, whether or not the CREATED, can believe it!



No. Do I remind my deaf child, driving across the county alone, how stupid the majority of hearing people are, texting, and relying on other people to honk their horn, signal them with a NOISE, when they have stopped paying attention to driving, because they are paying attention to their phone? Yes I do.
Because my child has not experienced hearing, or being a hearing person, to have a natural nature of what hearing people instinctively and naturally do and respond to.
Do I worry? About what I do not know? No.
Am I cautious, by the knowledge and experience I do know? Yes.



Sure I get angry at times. So what? That is not a sin.



I stand with God IN HIM. His WORD IS TRUTH, period. "HIS" understanding IS PARAMOUNT!
Does EVERY WORD OF GOD APPLY TO ME?
No.
Much of Scripture, THE WORD OF GOD, DOES NOT APPLY to me.
Much of Scripture, THE WORLD OF GOD, DOES APPLY to men WHO DO NOT have Heartfelt Belief in God. THAT does NOT Apply to me.



No. And the WHY is because I chose of my own FREEWILL to give God Authority over my Life. I have not the natural Power, to keep myself, unto Him Only. He is the ONE who KEEPS ME UNTO HIM ONLY.

Do I STILL HAVE SIN IN MY BODY? Of course. There was NO MAGIC WAND that makes SIN in a man Disappear.

A mans SIN is FORGIVEN, by God. He remembers the mans sin NO MORE.

Does that mean MEN FORGET? No.
Does that mean CONSEQUENCES MEN exact toward other men are forgiven or forgotten?
No.
Does that mean, all your financial debts are forgiven, and because you Can't pay, you don't have to pay? No.
Does that mean, you are relieved of serving a prison term, ie a Consequence pronounced on you BY MEN? No.

IOW - YOUR sin against God is forgiven, BY GOD, and you sin no more.

IOW - You may continue to experience consequences from BEFORE you were saved.
IF you murdered, IF you cheated on your spouse, IF you stole something, IF you did sneaking things.....you will still have to deal with the consequences....

And HOW HANDY to KNOW, Because you are SAVED, you have the Lord to comfort you, WHILE you have to deal with the consequences.

MY behavior toward other men AT ANY TIME can have NEGATIVE consequence, FROM the man. So what? That is my burden to bear.
The Lord Doesn't FIX IT, He teaches me, HOW TO FIX IT, and HOW TO AVOID IT, and IS MY comfort, WHILE, I fix it....and WISDOM is the process of Learning ....
From others experience...
Or my own experiences...
TO know the consequence, and decide IF I AM WILLING TO bear the burden of the consequence OR NOT.

IT HAS NOTHING to do with my Salvation or Being Born of God, or Sin.
(Unless you are a Jew, under Jewish law).

IT HAS Everything to do with Learning HOW TO SERVE the Lord, in ways that Glorify His Name.....or not, and suffer the consequences of the burdens BY OTHER MEN.....and LOSE Rewards From God.

Nothing personal to you Jerry. I recognize WHAT you believe, and WHY, by your own testimony. And I DISAGREE with you.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. I don't have time to respond your post fully right now.

2. I have to say you ramble quite a bit and do not understand the scripture very well in many respects. You also do not understand what I am saying for the most part.
What you think is not important to you about the word of God is more important than you realize and shows you go with your own mind alone to say what the scripture says. You also don't know why it is important. If you care that little or have that little respect for the word that is a sin. I'll be back. Jerry kelso
 
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mark kennedy

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What is your point? Personally I think you're looking for fools to destroy.
You see a lot of this in the creation evolution debate, arguing for something they know is going to stir up controversy. Christians simply won't accept something so contrary to the gospels and self contradictory. Its an exercise in fallacious rhetoric, all too common I'd say.
 
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SBC

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sbc,

1. I don't have time to respond your post fully right now.

2. I have to say you ramble quite a bit

I'd have to say, I was EXPRESSLY speaking, since just simply telling you doesn't register.

Not every Christian is a born again believer.
Not every Believer, believes from their heart.
Having ones Sins forgivesn and covered IS NOT saying one has no sin.
Jews did not stop obeying their laws, not during Jesus' time, nor today.
A Gentile is not subject to Jewish Laws.
Understanding according to God, is given a man BY God.

I have said these things before, You do not agree. You don't have to agree with me. However you should decide to agree with Scripture.

and do not understand the scripture very well in many respects.

It has already been established....HOW you conclude your understanding, from How men determine and interpret Scripture.

It has already been established....HOW Scripture says one can gain Gods Understanding, FROM God, and that is MY elected choice.

You also do not understand what I am saying for the most part.

You finally revealed HOW you conclude what Scripture means to you.

What you think is not important to you about the word of God

That is flat out not true.
Everything HINGES on TRUSTING the Word of GOD IS TRUE.

is more important than you realize

Once again, YOU are pretending you CAN THINK FOR ME, when I have already SAID,
TRUSTING the Word of God is a must.

and shows you go with your own mind alone to say what the scripture says.

OF course I go with my own mind to READ Scripture, READ what it SAYS.

Scripture is simply KNOWLEDGE.
It was Gods intended WAY, for men Learn about Him.

You also don't know why it is important.

Yet again, you decide for me.
I speak of TRUSTING to BELIEVE the WORD of God....and you wonder IF I KNOW WHY it is important?

Did you miss the part of me saying, YOU must elect to Choose to Believe in God from your heart?

You think, MAKING a HUGE DECISION, does not first require one to KNOW ABOUT WHO they are giving their LIFE TO?

Of course it is important!!

If you care that little or have that little respect for the word

Hold on there...You decided what I think!
And Now your going finger point at me for what YOU thought FOR ME?

I said no such thing, nor gave any indication whatsoever that the Word of God is not important.

that is a sin.

Well it really doesn't matter, since, I don't believe you are a mind reader. Nor did I say any such thing.

I'll be back.

I'll be around. Perhaps you can stick to ONLY what I have said, for myself.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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bugkiller

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Christian is a generic term. It simply means you are believing the Word of God.
Not in my understanding. But that depends on what one calls or defines a Christian as. Many say they're Christians based on externals only. IOW they're not believers or born again people. This creates lots of headache for most people.

bugkiller
 
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jerry kelso

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Christian is a generic term. It simply means you are believing the Word of God.

One day a man can believe, be called a Christian, and the next day he can stop believing.

While the man IS BELIEVING, he is being given FAITH, from God.

When the man stops believing, he stops receiving Faith, from God.

That man has FALLEN FROM FAITH.

That man can return to believing, again receive faith, from God...and fall again, and stop receiving faith from God, return to believing, and again receive faith from God.

That man can repeat this over and over, as long as he is physically alive.

Believing is what a man chooses to do or not.
Faith is what God gives a man FOR believing.
Faith is what a man LOSES, or FALLS FROM, at any time he STOPS BELIEVING.

When a man IS BELIEVING, he IS BELIEVING in the WORD OF GOD, and can be rightfully called a Christian.

When a man STOPS BELIEVING, he stops believing IN the Word of God, the man is no longer a Christian, has fallen from Faith, nor IS SAVED, or BORN AGAIN.

You speak in GENERAL TERMS, thus lose the understanding.

Men CAN believe, and STOP believing.
Christians CAN be a Christian, and STOP being a Christian.
Men CAN have faith, and STOP receiving Faith from God.

While men ARE believing, they CAN continue to sin....
Take a lesson from the disciples....
One minute they Believed, the next they denied.
One minute they Believed, the next they doubted.

This IS POSSIBLE, because their BELIEF, stems from their MIND. Then their MIND, tells them, that doesn't make sense, so they doubt.

What the disciples experienced, believing, then doubting, IS NOT UNIQUE. Many men experience the same, WHEN they ARE introduced to ANYTHING that is New or Different to them.

It is the LOGIC of THE MIND, a natural man is born with, and which IS HOW MAN WAS designed.

It is NOT exclusive to ONLY Jews or ONLY Gentiles. It is natural, and HOW natural men Learn about new things, and begin ciphering through weighing this option or that option, to logically decide what they believe, doubt, deny, or decide to fully believe or not.

Point being...ANY MAN can CLAIM to BELIEVE, based on the LOGICICAL conclusion in his MIND, and tomorrow CHANGE HIS MIND, and not BELIEVE.

ANY man can receive FAITH FROM GOD, during ANY TIME the man IS Believing, and at ANY TIME the man STOPS Believing, he stops receiving Faith, and that man HAS FALLEN FROM FAITH.

Faith is NOT a man believing.
Faith is a GIFT from God FOR WHEN a man is believing.

EVERYTHING....EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING..
CHANGES WHEN....

WHEN a believing man, BELIEVES from His HEART!!!!

HIS HEART....BELIEVES FROM HIS HEART!!!

SALVATION is AVAILABLE to EVERYONE.
Christ's giving ONCE of His Body, His BLOOD,
Is SUFFICIENT to FORGIVE a man of ALL OF his SINS, and COVER ALL of his SINS, and KEEP the man FROM EVER AGAIN SINNING.

A MAN WHO.....HAS TRUE BELIEF IN HIS HEART....and calls on the Lord NAME...

EVERYTHING CHANGES FOR THAT MAN.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to RECEIVE Forgiveness.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be Crucitife with Christ.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be SANCTIFIED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, for his soul to be SAVED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to RECEIVE God SEED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to BE FREED FROM SIN.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be baptized of the H~S.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to be KEPT WITH Christ.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to BE BORN OF GOD.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to SIN NO MORE.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be REDEEMED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to Be GLORIFIED.
He IS JUSTIFIED, that he is AGAIN GOOD.
He IS JUSTIFIED, to FOREVER BE with the Lord, and Forever the Lord WITH him.


Romans 10:9
That IF thous shalt confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God has trained him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 6: 6
.....our old man is crucified....
Roman 6: 7
For he that is dead is freed from sin

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all they soul, and with all they mind.

1 Thes 5: 23
The very God of peace SANCTIFY YOU WHOLLY;

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER IS born of God....CANNOT SIN.




Hermeneutics is an art form based on science. Science is discovery of something new and making LOGICAL MINDFUL CONCLUSIONS, if the something makes SENSE to believe it or not.

One ONLY needs to DECIDE to "TRUST" to BELIEVE Scripture, BEFORE THEY delve in.
MOST DO NOT.
A beginner WILL DO, what IS natural to them, WHICH IS, BELIEVE, what makes sense to their MIND, and REJECT what does not make sense to their MIND.
And THAT ^^ is WHY they CAN Believe and STOP Believing, OR PICK AND CHOOSE, what to BELIEVE and WHAT to reject.

Many Churches TEACH...TO DEPEND ON THE MIND.
Many Churches TEACH...This Word IS TRUE, but Other parts of Scripture are NOT True.
Many Churches TEACH...Scriptural MEANING CAN BE FIGURED out in the MIND, through philosophies and the art of Science.

The TRUTH IS:
Scripture TEACHES man from the Beginning,
What to CALL things. What things ARE similarity ALIKE, and what thing ARE NOT ALIKE.

Scripture TEACHES things that have become FAMILIAR to men, are TERMS men USE BECAUSE of what they mean, become TERMS men use IN APPLICATION to God.

Men were TAUGHT, a man WHO is the HEAD of HIS HOUSE, HIS FAMILY, HIS WIFE, HIS SERVANT.....IS THEE "father".

MOSES, FIRST APPLIED that SAME TERM, ie
"FATHER".... to GOD.
God IS; the Head of ALL the World, ALL of Creation. The Head of EVERY person, period.

Does that make God every persons BIOLOGICAL Father? No
It Does make God in Charge OF EVERYTHING.
God IS the Creator, IS LIFE, and can GIVE or TAKE Live of EVERYTHING HE has created.



No kidding. Men can Understand "MANY THINGS" written in Scripture....BECAUSE men already KNOW, what "MANY THINGS" mean!

When the WORD "tree" appears in Scripture, a man with simple common knowledge already KNOWS what a "tree" is.

When the WORD "give" appears in Scripture,
A man with simple common knowledge already KNOW what "give" means.

And when the Words "TREE OF LIFE" appears in Scripture. Some men MAY HAVE figured out what that means. BY their MINDS? No.
BY other Scriptures that tell them. The Word of God, IS Jesus, IS LIFE, IS the WORD, IS the WORD that IS Available TO FEED MEN, and thus a man WHO EATS from the TREE OF LIFE, Eats the Word, retains sustaining LIFE.
THUS WHERE the TREE of LIFE IS, There is LIFE to be had.

And ALSO there are Scriptures, "that make NO SENSE whatsoever to a mans MIND".
For Example; "I die daily"....
I can guess. You can guess. Anyone can guess. Paul knew WHAT HE MEANT.
Point being...ANYONE can guess.
Point being...ANYONE can philosophize, and MINDFULLY CONCLUDE what Paul meant.
Does that make it TRUE? No.

Is it important to me personally? No.

But what IF there IS something WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE, that MAKES NO SENSE to MY MIND, and Scripture DOES NOT EXPLAIN IT?
WHAT IF I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS....??

Ask ANOTHER Man? See what he has guessed? Read Philosophies of OTHER men?
Believe what made sense to their minds?
Reword Scriptures SO THEY DO MAKE sense to my mind?

MEN do these things on a REGULAR everyday basis! Even Churches TEACH to do this, and have ADOPTED this AS their Teaching Basis, and CALL their Church a PARTICULAR Denomination, so others of the same MIND-SET can join in and Be a PART of the membership of fancy guess-work.

THAT LANDS A MAN, smack in the ROLL of TAKING ON GODS POSITION!

Men INTERPRETING, GODS WORD!

You teach this, and have a fancy name for it, ie, Hermeneutics...as you said, THE ART of interpretation.

THAT IS IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION of SCRIPTURE.

That which is IN SCRIPTURE, and not PLAINLY given what something means, CAN ONLY BE UNDERSTOOD....BY GOD giving the INDIVIDUAL the "HIS" UNDERSTANDING!

HOW DID Peter "KNOW" Jesus IS THE CHRIST? Peter's "mindful guess-work" ?

No. Scripture tells you, FROM WHAT SOURCE, Peter DID KNOW and FROM WHAT SOURCE, Peter DID NOT KNOW.

Matt 16: 24
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for
FLESH AND BLOOD hath NOT revealed it unto thee, BUT
My FATHER which is in Heaven.

Luke 24:45 .... VERIFIES Understanding of Scripture is FROM GOD, NOT MEN.
Is Jesus GIVING Understanding.

You teach, understanding of Scripture, is via an ART FORM, men have devised.
Philosophers teach, understanding of Scriptures, is via Logical guesswork that makes sense to the MIND.

Scripture teaches the natural carnal MIND of men IS AGAINST GOD.

Scripture teaches the natural understanding of men is but foolishness to God.

So, ya, your teaching, and you having revealed HOW you CONCLUDE the basis for your teaching, is not something I consider.



ANYONE, who has not RECEIVED Salvation from the Lord, CAN BE at risk of LOSING their opportunity to RECEIVE, what was FOR THEM.

SALVATION IS A GIFT FOR EVERYONE, FROM GOD. IT IS THEIRS "TO RECEIVE"....

Well, gee. If a man DOESN'T RECEIVE the Gift from God.......He LOSES IT.

Salivation IS A GIFT.....God does not FORCE ANYONE TO TAKE OR RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation HE PROVIDES!

Of course IF A MAN DOESN"T TAKE AND RECEIVE THE GIFT, they lose it.

SALVATION IS A GIFT, that a MAN MUST RECEIVE. IF the MAN DOESN"T RECEIVE IT,
(Before His bodily death) He permanently LOSES opportunity to RECEIVE THE GIFT.

Man DOES NOT "RECEIVE" the gift of Salvation....simply because One day, in his MIND he believes. Or one day he goes to a Christian Church and hears the Word of God and believes it. Or one day a man reads Scripture and thinks in his mind he believes what he reads.

SUCH a man IS RECEIVING FAITH....
NOT SALVATION!

SUCH a man CAN STOP receiving FAITH...
Because he MINDFULLY STOPS BELIEVING.

That man has FALLEN from FAITH....
He has NOT fallen from SALVATION, that he NEVER RECEIVED.
THAT man has simply jeopardized his opportunity to RECEIVE Salvation.

And as long as THAT man is BODILY ALIVE, he can return to BELIEVING, and return to being in a POSITION to RECEIVE SALVATION!

RECEIVING Salvation....has nothing whatsoever, to do with your use of common generic terms.....BELIEVING....CHRISTIAN.

It has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH....
BELIEVING IN ONES "HEART".

ANY man can say, he believes, he is a Christian....and the next day, CHANGE HIS MIND!!

God DOES NOT SEEK OUT or LISTEN to the confessions of a MANS "MIND".

God SEEKS OUT AND LISTENS to the confession of a MANS "HEART" !!

And ONCE.....ONCE....a man CONFESSES TO GOD, with HIS HEART.....EVERYTHING ABOUT THE MAN CHANGES.

He is GIVEN Forgiveness.
He is GIVEN BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
He is GIVEN SALVATION.
He is GIVEN the Seed OF GOD.
He is GIVEN eternal togetherness WITH the Lord His God!

THAT MAN CAN NOT....EVER...
NOT EVER...
Lose Salvation
Lose the Seed of God
Lose his status as a son of God.
Lose the Holy Spirit within Him.
Lose his being Freed FROM SIN.



God absolutely WILL sit on the side-lines and allow a man to MINDFULLY think, believe, not believe, doubt, believe again, call himself whatever the man decides, sin, sin, sin, stand Against God, like God, not like God at any time.....

UNTIL....a man FROM HIS OWN HEART, confess BELIEF IN GOD.

Apparently you do not comprehend, when a man CALLS ON THE LORD, TO CONFESS BELIEVE IN HIS HEART....

THAT IS A MAN'S FREEWILL CHOICE!
FROM HIS HEART!!

Perhaps you NEVER LEARNED....
THE MAN IS CHOOSING TO "GIVE HIS LIFE TO GOD".

Scripture teaches....TO BE SURE of your election (your choice, exercising YOUR FREEWILL) to GIVE YOUR LIFE TO GOD...
BECAUSE...there is no CHANGING of YOUR MIND, OR your HEART thereafter.

YOU ARE CHOOSING, by your own FREEWILL, to GIVE YOUR LIFE TO GOD.

THERE ARE NO DO OVERS...ONCE YOU GIVE YOUR LIFE YOU God....YOU HAVE GIVEN God the AUTHORITY OVER YOUR LIFE.

Which goes back to ... GOD does not FORCE ANYONE to RECEIVE the gift of Salvation....
TO believe in Him...TO become his son.

EVERYTHING hinges on a mans FREEWILL, to decide from HIS HEART, TO or NOT TO, Give God Authority over the mans LIFE.

And ONCE a man DOES....with his own freewill will....say YES...God can have authority over his Life.

God TAKES THAT MANS .... YES .... from the mans HEARTS CONFESSION....and thereafter,
CONVERTS the man WITH HIS POWER, and KEEPS THE MAN converted, saved, born of God, in FULL- Faithfulness, TO GOD ONLY...
FOREVER!! THAT MAN CAN NEVER AGAIN...
Stand Against God. NEVER!



Beliving from ones mind, does not yield a man to God, or make God His Master.

God becomes a mans MASTER, when the man has CONFESSED in his HEART, true Belief in God.



I didn't call it unborn....I ASKED you if that is how it works according to you.

Your teaching, simply relies on the generic terms of Believe and Christian.
THAT, those terms, determine if one IS BORN AGAIN....while yet you admit, men can stop believing and stop being a Christian.

Which was my point in saying, to stop using general terms, and be specific.

Because a man WHO IS believing IN HIS HEART, is totally different than a man confessing belief in HIS MIND!



Fully aware......and fully aware of HOW AND WHY!

Fully aware....A man who has confessed TO GOD, BELIEF from his heart HEART, NEVER is in jeopardy of losing His Salvation.



You WANT the term Christian to mean, a man who is saved and born again....but it doesn't mean that.

A Christian CAN BE, a saved and born again man....

However a Christian IS ALSO any man, who is believing the Word of God....and at any time can STOP believing.

A Christian IS a follower of Christ's teachings.
A FOLLOWER, does NOT EQUAL saved and born again.

A BORN AGAIN CHRISITAN, REVEALS, that man HAS Given his LIFE to Christ.

Which is totally DIFFERENT from a milquetoast Christian, believing, doubting, following along, rebelling against belief in Gods Word, then believing some things, then not, then kind of, maybe believing.....
HE ALSO is a Christian, BUT NOT a SAVED OR BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN...AND yes, he can sin, by doubting belief in God.

IF he were ...you would NEVER OBSERVE, men going to an alter call.
Which IS SIMPLY that "Christian", that follower of Gods Word, tha man believing Gods Word..... exercising his own FREEWILL, to go from MINDFULLY following the Word of God....TO Heartfully, BELIEVING, and SUBMITTING His LIFE TO GOD...THAT GOD, will take CONTROL, and GIVE THE MAN FULL and FOREVER FAITHFULNESS TO GOD ONLY.

Men CAN NOT HAVE FULL FAITHFULNESS in God, by their own MIND'S thoughts, or by their own HEART'S thought, by Laws, by Commands, by Gods WISHING, by the man WISHING.....

THAT is effected SOLEY By a man confessing belief in his Heart.....AND GOD TAKING Authority over that mans LIFE, and GIVING the man, the things that God has determined, MAKE THE MAN ACCEPTABLY WHOLE...
TO HIM!

It does not matter IF I am acceptable to YOU.
It does not matter IF you quote umpteen Scriptures to ME.
It does not matter if you talk about men who CAN lose their salvation...CAN fall from faith;
I already KNOW, MEN WHO ARE NOT SAVED, and MEN WHO STOP believing...DO lose their salvation and DO fall from faith...
And I already KNOW that DOES NOT APPLY,
TO a man that confessed true belief in his Heart TO GOD, and God gave the man Salvation and Full Faithfulness, FOREVER.



Yes, already know, and already spoke to that.



Justification IS WHAT GOD GIVES..
Confess to God, true belief in your heart...
God Justifies the man to be made WHOLE.

Do works that Glorify Gods Name...
God Justifies the man to receive REWARDS.



Justification of me being MADE WHOLE IS ALREADY EFFECTED, It's DONE. It is Permanent, and can NOT BECOME lost or undone.

Justification of WORKS?
I don't HAVE TO SHOW ANYTHING!
I don't HAVE TO DO ANYTHING!
I don't HAVE TO SPEAK HIS WORD, teach others ABOUT GOD, NOTHING!

Scripture simply TEACHES, it is to my own benefit to DO those things....AND I shall be REWARDED "FOR" doing those things.

It is NOT a SIN for me to NOT DO THOSE THINGS. It is simply a LOSS TO ME of rewards I COULD HAVE GAINED.
IT HAS nothing whatsoever to do with MY SALVATION already BEING given me FOREVER.

Your teaching is that TO NOT DO those things, IS A SIN AGAINST GOD, same as the Jews teach, according to their Law.

However I was JUSTIFIED to RECEIVE Salvation, and did, and it is permanent.
I was JUSTIFIED to Receive the SEED of God, and did, and it is permanent.

AND ANY WORKS, I DO, I shall be JUSTIFIED, BY GOD, to receive, FROM GOD, rewards, FOR WORKS, I DO, that Glorify HIS NAME.

It does not matter, if I DO WORKS, if I DO NOT DO WORKS, IF you KNOW, IF you Don't KNOW. You can NOTICE anything I do, and NOT Approve. You can mention to me, your disapproval. However IF you INCLUDE, in your disapproval...that IT IS A SIN....that IS A LIE.

It would BE A LIE...Because you FULL WELL KNOW, I am not a Jew, or subject to their LAWS.

It would BE A LIE...Because you FULL WELL KNOW, I have given MY LIFE to the Lord, and HE has freed me from BEING ABLE TO SIN.

JESUS did not destroy the LAW. NOR was the LAW given to Gentiles. Jewish laws dictate, BEHAVIORS are SINS.
Jesus taught, Confess BELIEF in your Heart and BECOME FREED FROM SIN, to SIN NO MORE.



I do not believe ANY MAN who has confessed to the Lord, true heartful belief in the Lord is going to hell, no matter what he calls himself.

You teach men who believe, AND SIN, are justified to be SAVED.
I teach men who call on the Lord, and confess true BELIEF in their heart, are justified to be SAVED, and ARE SAVED and BORN AGAIN, and SIN NO MORE.

You teach men who believe, AND SIN, "ARE" Saved, BY WHAT, they call themselves.
I teach men who call on the Lord, with confession of True belief in their Hearts ARE saved, and SIN NO MORE.

Your teaching, is SAVED and BORN AGAIN MEN, CAN change Masters, BY their FREEWILL, and CAN SIN.
I teach, a man exercised HIS OWN freewill, to Give God Authority over the mans LIFE...
THAT GOD accepts that Authority and makes the man WHOLE forever, and KEEPS the man IN STANDING WITH GOD FOREVER, and SINS no more.



Yes. God knows your heart. And God does not FORCE anyone to GIVE Him Authority to make the man Converted. THAT is the mans FREEWILL CHOICE.
And requires the man to exercise his own FREEWILL TO or NOT TO Give God Authority to convert the man.



Yes, you have explained, MINDFULLY, HOW you can DIVERT from Believing what Scripture Plainly SAYS.

THAT is the DOWNFALL of leaning ON philosophies and science and art and the minds understanding, of what Scripture means.

THAT is precisely WHY, there ARE umpteen categories, called "dominations", ALL claiming to be Christians. THEY ALL have ONE core Belief...that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Died and rose again.....

But they DO NOT ALL HAVE ONE CORE "TRUST", that EVERY WORD OF SCRIPTURE IS TRUE.

An enormous amount of time is SPENT by numerous "dominations", teaching, HOW TO, NOT "TRUST" every word of Scripture IS TRUE. HOW TO change the TRUTH of GOD, into a LIE.
HOW TO TRUST the WORD of the CREATED, over the WORD OF the CREATOR.

I say the WORD of GOD IS TRUE, regardless if a man understands it.
I say the WORD of GOD, says a man BORN OF GOD, CANNOT SIN, BECAUSE Scripture, SAYS SO.
I have studied and ASKED God to show me, WHY, HOW, WHEN....and TRUST HIS Understanding, I asked for, and received FROM HIM.

You make it clear, you receive your understanding, by your being taught HOW MEN can interpret Scripture, and conclude logical understanding in your mind.

You make it clear, you can not TRUST to believe, the plain Words in Scripture.

That WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD, CAN NOT SIN.

You can't trust that IS True, so you give your philosophical understanding to MAKE "your TRUTH" valid, and Gods WORD in Scripture, INVALID. And you absolutely DO GIVE, your basis...mans interpretation....and I absolutely BELIEVE that IS what you do....and precisely WHY, I absolutely disagree with you.

And BECAUSE, I TRUST TO BELIEVE the Word of God, plainly stated in Scripture, and plainly I SAY SO....well, then....the diversion begins...
Another can SIMPLY be AGAINST me...

However Scripture ALSO teaches, it is not me one is supposed to be deciding to STAND WITH, nor is it me, one is Against when they do not Trust my belief in the Word of God....

IT IS the one himself, Standing Against the Word of God.

1 Samuel 8: 7
.....they have not rejected thee, (SAMUEL, a man) they have reject me...(the LORD, says the LORD)



I don't require a LIST. I have been cleansed in Jesus' BLOOD from ALL unrighteousness, says the Lord, WHO IS THE TRUTH, whether or not the CREATED, can believe it!



No. Do I remind my deaf child, driving across the county alone, how stupid the majority of hearing people are, texting, and relying on other people to honk their horn, signal them with a NOISE, when they have stopped paying attention to driving, because they are paying attention to their phone? Yes I do.
Because my child has not experienced hearing, or being a hearing person, to have a natural nature of what hearing people instinctively and naturally do and respond to.
Do I worry? About what I do not know? No.
Am I cautious, by the knowledge and experience I do know? Yes.



Sure I get angry at times. So what? That is not a sin.



I stand with God IN HIM. His WORD IS TRUTH, period. "HIS" understanding IS PARAMOUNT!
Does EVERY WORD OF GOD APPLY TO ME?
No.
Much of Scripture, THE WORD OF GOD, DOES NOT APPLY to me.
Much of Scripture, THE WORLD OF GOD, DOES APPLY to men WHO DO NOT have Heartfelt Belief in God. THAT does NOT Apply to me.



No. And the WHY is because I chose of my own FREEWILL to give God Authority over my Life. I have not the natural Power, to keep myself, unto Him Only. He is the ONE who KEEPS ME UNTO HIM ONLY.

Do I STILL HAVE SIN IN MY BODY? Of course. There was NO MAGIC WAND that makes SIN in a man Disappear.

A mans SIN is FORGIVEN, by God. He remembers the mans sin NO MORE.

Does that mean MEN FORGET? No.
Does that mean CONSEQUENCES MEN exact toward other men are forgiven or forgotten?
No.
Does that mean, all your financial debts are forgiven, and because you Can't pay, you don't have to pay? No.
Does that mean, you are relieved of serving a prison term, ie a Consequence pronounced on you BY MEN? No.

IOW - YOUR sin against God is forgiven, BY GOD, and you sin no more.

IOW - You may continue to experience consequences from BEFORE you were saved.
IF you murdered, IF you cheated on your spouse, IF you stole something, IF you did sneaking things.....you will still have to deal with the consequences....

And HOW HANDY to KNOW, Because you are SAVED, you have the Lord to comfort you, WHILE you have to deal with the consequences.

MY behavior toward other men AT ANY TIME can have NEGATIVE consequence, FROM the man. So what? That is my burden to bear.
The Lord Doesn't FIX IT, He teaches me, HOW TO FIX IT, and HOW TO AVOID IT, and IS MY comfort, WHILE, I fix it....and WISDOM is the process of Learning ....
From others experience...
Or my own experiences...
TO know the consequence, and decide IF I AM WILLING TO bear the burden of the consequence OR NOT.

IT HAS NOTHING to do with my Salvation or Being Born of God, or Sin.
(Unless you are a Jew, under Jewish law).

IT HAS Everything to do with Learning HOW TO SERVE the Lord, in ways that Glorify His Name.....or not, and suffer the consequences of the burdens BY OTHER MEN.....and LOSE Rewards From God.

Nothing personal to you Jerry. I recognize WHAT you believe, and WHY, by your own testimony. And I DISAGREE with you.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Acts 11:26; Christian is not a generic term. These were disciples of Christ.
It also means Christlike.

2. By faith believe Hebrews 11:1; 6.
Man can fall from grace Galatians 5:4. This deals with salvation.

3. I have not spoken in general terms, I gave you scripture and the context.

4. There is a battleground of the mind and that is why we have to renew it daily Romans 2:2.

5. 1 John 1:8,2:2 shows that a Christian can sin and still be a Christian.
1 John 3:9 is opposite when taking literal.
This is a paradox that has to be reconciled.
Hamartamein can only mean and he cannot go on sinning. This agrees with the context of not abiding habitually in sin.

6. Your guessing, philosophizing, etc. of 1 Corinthians 15:31 shows you have no answer and don't care.
It shows you can't rightly divide the word.
You are skating the issue and have no answer.
Shame on you that you think so little of the word of God.

7. Righteous anger is not sin but your anger is. The proof is the tone of the words "so what".
For the wrath of Man worketh not the righteousness of God James 1:20.
1 Corinthians 10:31; Ephesians 4:26-27; 4:15-19; Roman's 3:13-14; Proverbs 29:11; 1 John 5:16.
You are wrong that anger is not sin. Your words shows pride and unconcern.

8. The old man is dead, temptation comes from outside so there is no sinful nature that lives in us. That is the dual nature which is not true.

9. God doesn't overlook sin and you can't show a scripture to prove it.

10. The Lord can teach you to fix it, but that doesn't mean that your actions toward men isn't always completely justified.
Sometimes it may and sometimes not depending on how you handle it.
That hS nothing to do necessarily with your salvation and if you're a real Christian following God will seek reconciliation.

11. Galatians 5:19-21 shows Wrath and Strife deal with anger and is listed as sins who will have Christians and sinners not inherit the KoG.
So in the right context anger can be more dangerous than you think.

12. Jews are not under the law of Moses. They are under the NC. They are part of the church Ephesians 2-14-15; 3:3-5.

13. One can lose rewards 1 Corinthians 3:1-15.
One can lose salvation 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.

14. Nothing personal, but you can't rebut the truth of the scriptures and their context that I have posted.

15. You are using 1 John 3:9 to prove Unconditional Eternal Security and Sinless Perfection. You cann deny it but you won't be truthful or fair.

16. If you really live that close to God that you never sin good for you.
However, your tone of your words show that is not the case.
It shows a perception of pride and not being humbled.
All the body is important and needs to be United and not Divided so the perception of being condescending towards those who may not be at the same level as another who doesn't sin.
Try to rebut properly by giving scripture instead of saying scripture says when you have been off a few times.
Study to show yourself approve a workman that needeth not be ashamed.
Show me you really have studied the word instead of giving rambling non-comprehension of what you think is truth. At this time being you are a walking contradiction in many points. You can believe what you want but you must be fair in exegesis and rebuttal by scripture. Jerry kelso
 
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bugkiller

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My point was, I asked you a question, and if you could answer the question.

Your point is, No you would not answer the question.



Your personal opinion was not solicited.
If you understood Scripture, you would already KNOW, I have not the power to destroy anything.

God Bless,
SBC
If that isn't what you're asking for in this thread, you're demanding others subscribe to your opinion which you offer plenty of.

You state he doesn't understand Scripture. Yet I noticed you ignore, dismiss or otherwise promote something different from others with no evidence except statements. I also note you ignore much Scripture to come to your conclusion.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Then it is without merit, for you to know, your MIND has thoughts and the natural spirit in your HEART has thoughts.

Plain Scripture that comes AFTER, one knows, there are MIND-ful thoughts, AND HEART-ful thoughts.....AND....

THE CARNAL MINDS OF MEN ARE AGAINST GOD.....AND GOD REQUIRES A CONFESSION TO HIM FROM A MANS HEART'S thoughts.....

You would simply read Scripture....as you have, and say, anyone who believes in Christ is born again......WHICH ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.....MUST BE a man WHO BELIEVES in CHIRST IN HIS HEART.

That does not need to be TOLD to you again, it was already ESTABLISHED in Scripture.

As well it is already ESTABLISHED in Scripture, SOME MEN DO believe in their MINDS...and CAN AT ANY TIME, Mind-fully, STOP believing.....yet NOTHING says they ARE saved or born again.



Calling yourself a Christian IS NOT HOW OR WHY a man is born of God. TO pretend it is, is FALSE.

Scripture NEVER teaches, to CALL yourself a Christian and you will be BORN AGAIN!

Scripture NEVER teaches, ALL people calling themselves Christians ARE BORN AGAIN!

Scripture SPECIFICALLY TEACHES, one MUST believe IN THEIR HEART.

Scripture SPECIFICALLY TEACHES, THE CARNAL MIND IS AGAINST GOD.

Scripture SPECIFICALLY TEACHES, GOD SEEKS the thoughts of the HEART....NOT THE MIND!

WHEN YOU, simply say, ANYONE who believes, is BORN OF GOD...

THAT is not TRUE....BECAUSE MEN WHO BELIEVE ONLY BY THE THOUGHTS OF THEIR MIND, ARE NOT SAVED.

YOU MAKE NO distinction whatsoever.
Thus your teaching is not True.



Yes, as I have espoused IS taught in Scripture as GODS WAY.



It's people like me WHO TEACH the TRUTH..
And WHEN a man HAS THE TRUTH, He therefore is armed with the TRUTH, BEFORE he skips on down to the alter to make his confession FROM HIS HEART.

There are NUMEROUS men who have heard and been taught as you teach...

And have said their oooooh ya, Amen, I believe, yahoo......and get their water baptism....and announced they are SAVED and BORN AGAIN....whoooo hooo...

And then .... oops, a week later, years later, then announce they DO NOT BELIEVE...

AND WHAT ABOUT THEM? Are they "unsaved"? no. Are they "un-born again"? No.

They were Never saved to begin with. They were Never born again to begin with. Because they NEVER confessed with their Hearts true thoughts.

Well why not? Because people like you, teach, they only need to believe...WITHOUT impressing or identifying....it is with TRUE THOUGHTS OF ONES HEART, that a man confesses BELIEF IN GOD, TO GOD.

And why would a man new to hearing about Christ Jesus, need to know that? Be told that?

Because the teacher is supposed to be smarter than the student. The teacher is supposed to know, what the man has done his whole life is what is natural to men.....
Which IS, THINK with HIS MIND, make decisions based on what HIS MINDS thoughts are!

It is the teachers responsibility BY taking on the role of teacher....to make sure, a person NEW to hearing and learing about Christ Jesus....HAS the FACTS of what is required should the man choose to Give His Life to the Lord.

Because it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the BELIEF and THOUGHTS of a mans MIND!



They have freewill choice to hear, to go to scripture and verify, or walk away, just as any man did standing in the crowd listening to Jesus speak, also have the freewill to walk away, as many did.



THAT is your choice. Just as it is your choice to TRUST Scripture is TRUE or NOT.

Just as it is your choice to disagree with me, BECAUSE I TRUST Scripture IS TRUE.

Just as it is your choice to go and Verify what I have said IS taught IN Scripture...or not.

You being here or not, is your freewill choice.
And what you do or do not do has no affect on me whatsoever....what you do or do not only affects you.

Don't let your heart be troubled, God is faithful to His Word.

God Bless,
SBC
You should spend lots of time in Jn 3 and Rom 3-8.

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bugkiller

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I'd have to say, I was EXPRESSLY speaking, since just simply telling you doesn't register.

Not every Christian is a born again believer.
Not every Believer, believes from their heart.
Having ones Sins forgivesn and covered IS NOT saying one has no sin.
Jews did not stop obeying their laws, not during Jesus' time, nor today.
A Gentile is not subject to Jewish Laws.
Understanding according to God, is given a man BY God.

I have said these things before, You do not agree. You don't have to agree with me. However you should decide to agree with Scripture.



It has already been established....HOW you conclude your understanding, from How men determine and interpret Scripture.

It has already been established....HOW Scripture says one can gain Gods Understanding, FROM God, and that is MY elected choice.



You finally revealed HOW you conclude what Scripture means to you.



That is flat out not true.
Everything HINGES on TRUSTING the Word of GOD IS TRUE.



Once again, YOU are pretending you CAN THINK FOR ME, when I have already SAID,
TRUSTING the Word of God is a must.



OF course I go with my own mind to READ Scripture, READ what it SAYS.

Scripture is simply KNOWLEDGE.
It was Gods intended WAY, for men Learn about Him.



Yet again, you decide for me.
I speak of TRUSTING to BELIEVE the WORD of God....and you wonder IF I KNOW WHY it is important?

Did you miss the part of me saying, YOU must elect to Choose to Believe in God from your heart?

You think, MAKING a HUGE DECISION, does not first require one to KNOW ABOUT WHO they are giving their LIFE TO?

Of course it is important!!



Hold on there...You decided what I think!
And Now your going finger point at me for what YOU thought FOR ME?

I said no such thing, nor gave any indication whatsoever that the Word of God is not important.



Well it really doesn't matter, since, I don't believe you are a mind reader. Nor did I say any such thing.



I'll be around. Perhaps you can stick to ONLY what I have said, for myself.

God Bless,
SBC
You're an interesting side distraction for a mature Christian who has examined their walk with God and participation in organized religion.

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mark kennedy

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If that isn't what you're asking for in this thread, you're demanding others subscribe to your opinion which you offer plenty of.

You state he doesn't understand Scripture. Yet I noticed you ignore, dismiss or otherwise promote something different from others with no evidence except statements. I also note you ignore much Scripture to come to your conclusion.

bugkiller
He is not the only one I've seen argue this hopelessly flawed, self contradictory, fallacy. Some guy, calls himself Jason something or another argues this in circles endlessly. I literally had a guy demand that I defend creationism using pelgilism. Another theistic evolutionist argued fiercely that creationist were deist which is obviously contradicted be the definition of the two terms. I showed him two lexicon definitions and he promptly ignored it. They don't do this from faith or to build up believers, they do it for sport.
 
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SBC

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Not in my understanding. But that depends on what one calls or defines a Christian as. Many say they're Christians based on externals only. IOW they're not believers or born again people. This creates lots of headache for most people.

bugkiller

That was my point.

The first people called Christians were Jews, because they followed Jesus' teachings and believed He was the Christ.

They were called Christians ~ by other people who coined the term, but that did not follow after Jesus.

Today ~ I don't believe Jews call themselves Christians.

Today ~ Jews who do believe in Jesus Christ as their Messiah, are called Messianic Jews.

Today ~ Anyone following after Jesus' teachings is called a Christian, by themselves, by others.

Today ~ Men following after Jesus' teachings,
Can Stop believing His teaching, and then say.....they used to be a Christian, but are no more.

Today ~ Men can follow after Jesus' teachings, but deny the term Christian.

Today ~ Men can have learned about Jesus Christ, believe what they have learned, AND elected to have Given their Life to Him, AND
Call themselves, Saved and Born Again, OR
Saved and Born Again Christians.

It is a confusing term, since it can have so many different meanings, dependent upon who is speaking.

The same applications can be ascribed to the word BELIEVER.

Some BELIEVE, but are not Saved or Born Again.

At any time they can Stop Believing, fall from faith.

Which again becomes confusing, in discussion, about specific Scriptures.

When the terms are so general, it's just guesswork as to what an individual applies to himself.

A Saved and Born Again Christian, can not fall from Faith.

But some will argue, that is not true, because they themselves, BELIEVED, were Water Baptized, (ie Saved and Born Again), yet now, no longer Believe.

And then, Baptism becomes the argument.

IMO ~ A Saved and Born Again (person), called Christian or not, IS Baptized with the Holy Spirit, By God, (not by men in a water pool). And it is permanent.
Meaning, they could never again, deny Christ the Lord / God.

Some may agree with that, BUT, then may also claim, such a person STILL commits sin,
BECAUSE, he has judged, the saved and born again person's behavior IS NOT, according to what the accuser thinks it should be.

So then, WHAT IS A person called, who IS a Believer in the Word of God, has Given His Life to Christ Jesus, has become Crucified with Christ, his soul saved, his spirit born again from Gods Seed, Sanctified, Forgiven his sins, Freed from Sin, A New man IN Christ Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

Some say A Christian WHO STILL COMMITS SIN.

If that is so, ^^, Doesn't Scripture become FALSE? Freed from Sin, Sins No more?

So far, the answers, I have received is; inanutshell, Scripture doesn't really mean,
Sins no more.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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sbc,

1. Acts 11:26; Christian is not a generic term. These were disciples of Christ.
It also means Christlike.

Are you a disciple of Christ?
Christlike?
While you claim to be one who commits sin?

2. By faith believe Hebrews 11:1; 6.
Man can fall from grace Galatians 5:4. This deals with salvation.

Your point?
You are given faith by God, or by yourself?
You can be saved, but can fall from Gods Grace and have being saved, undone?

3. I have not spoken in general terms, I gave you scripture and the context.

Sure you have. You change the context of Scripture from what it says to Christian.

4. There is a battleground of the mind and that is why we have to renew it daily Romans 2:2.

When one listens to their Heart, instead of their Mind....they have won the battle.

5. 1 John 1:8,2:2 shows that a Christian can sin and still be a Christian.

Then a Christian, according to what you are saying..... IS TO BE NOT Christ-like.

1 John 3:9 is opposite when taking literal.

No. It is one who HAS Become Christ-Like, by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

This is a paradox that has to be reconciled.

No. It is your failure to TRUST Scripture is True.

Hamartamein can only mean and he cannot go on sinning.
"Cannot go on sinning"...hummm.
You say you do.

I say I "sin no more"....which means...
I "cannot go on sinning".

Regardless of which wording you prefer...
A person DOES NOT, CANNOT, SIN AGAIN.

But you have been Clear, you don't believe a man born of God, sins no more.

This agrees with the context of not abiding habitually in sin.

That's pretty handy teaching, that if one is going to Believe in Christ, it must be ALL of the Time, not only some of the time.

6. Your guessing, philosophizing, etc. of 1 Corinthians 15:31 shows you have no answer and don't care.

I identified, it was a general guess. I was not philosophizing, or saying this is true.

You have an interest in studying that particular Scripture. So what? Am I somehow required to FOLLOW YOU, DO WHAT sparks your interest? No I don't!

It shows you can't rightly divide the word.

What a load of nonsense. All it shows, is that particular verse, interested you, and was NOT something that particularly sparked my interest, nor did I claim it did.

However what it does show, is that you have moved away from explaining WHY you do not believe a man born of God, sins no more, to another verse that has nothing to do with being born of God, and sinning no more.

You are skating the issue and have no answer.

First of all, the verse you introduced is NOT the issue, it has nothing to do with being born of God, and sinning no more.

Secondly, I choose to study with interests me.
If the verse you presented interests you, start an OP about it. And perhaps others ALSO interested in the same will engage with you.

Shame on you that you think so little of the word of God.

SHAME ON YOU, to make such a false and outlandish accusation!

SHAME ON YOU, To teach the Word of God, Saying men born of God, continue to sin, in complete opposition To the Word of God.

7. Righteous anger is not sin but your anger is.

What anger? I have not expressed anger, nor said I was angry. So why do you make up nonsense?

RIGHT....you think FOR ME...you make decisions FOR ME...you speak FOR ME...

Then you can wag your finger at me......
For all the THINKING, DECIDING, SPEAKING, "YOU" have DONE FOR ME.

How about you take a look at yourself, and really see WHERE that "thinking, deciding, and speaking" FOR ME, is really originating FROM....IT'S FROM YOU...NOT ME!

Every time, you attempt to put your own thoughts and speech ON ME, you simply reveal, they have originated WITH YOU.
You simply are revealing your true self.
You own it.

The proof is the tone of the words "so what".

LOL ~ you introduce something that has nothing to do with the topic, and so what does it have to do with the topic? Nothing.

For the wrath of Man worketh not the righteousness of God James 1:20.

Since ANGER was your thought, perhaps you should spend time considering James 1:20 in application to yourself.

1 Corinthians 10:31; Ephesians 4:26-27; 4:15-19; Roman's 3:13-14; Proverbs 29:11; 1 John 5:16.
You are wrong that anger is not sin.

You ARE WRONG, to make false accusations.

You ARE WRONG, to presume I am angry, because you choose to not believe Whoseoever is born of God, cannot sin.

Your words shows pride and unconcern.

LOL ~ Funny. I Trust Scripture is true and not ashamed to say so. I am not the one pushing MEN to interpret Scripture, you are.
Seems you are the one pushing for MEN to be PRIDEFUL of their accomplishing interpreting
Scripture, When Scripture itself, teaches, only God interprets His Own Word, and otherwise is but foolishness.

8. The old man is dead, temptation comes from outside so there is no sinful nature that lives in us. That is the dual nature which is not true.

And? Acting on the "outside temptations", is what? SIN? And what you claim you do?

Why do you do that?

9. God doesn't overlook sin and you can't show a scripture to prove it.

Overlook sin? Those are YOUR WORDS, not mine.

Why would I look for a scripture that says that? Or TRY to prove, something I NEVER SAID? Funny!

10. The Lord can teach you to fix it, but that doesn't mean that your actions toward men isn't always completely justified.

Who said all actions toward other men were justified?

Duh, that's why there IS A FIX!

Sometimes it may and sometimes not depending on how you handle it.
That hS nothing to do necessarily with your salvation and if you're a real Christian following God will seek reconciliation.

That is BECAUSE behavior Between men, has nothing to do with SIN. So, ofcouse it does not have ANYTHING to do with a man who has received Salvation from God.
Salvation being received is between A man and God.....not between A man and A man.

11. Galatians 5:19-21 shows Wrath and Strife deal with anger and is listed as sins who will have Christians and sinners not inherit the KoG.

Good Grief, go deal with your Anger, instead of telling me about your obsessive thoughts about Anger.

So in the right context anger can be more dangerous than you think.

And HOW EXACTLY would YOU KNOW WHAT I think about ANGER?

RIGHT ~ You THINK FOR ME! And then TELL me my thoughts!

I've seen Johnny Carson do the same thing, as a COMEDIC skit! And would say, your attempts to do the same thing are not amusing.

12. Jews are not under the law of Moses. They are under the NC. They are part of the church Ephesians 2-14-15; 3:3-5.

That's big of you to speak for ALL Jews, concerning their OT Laws and Covenants given in the OT, as if they are the same thing.
OT laws are one thing.
Agreements between men and God Covenants.

Jesus did not destroy the law. He fulfilled the law. YET, NOT ALL, believe that.
And many Jews STILL, by their own obedience TO their Law, ARE still under the Law. Since Jesus DID NOT destroy their Law, Any Jew adhereing to the Law, do as their father Abraham did, and was accounted as Righteousness unto him.

If you want to account yourself, under the NC, that is your choice to make.

If you want to account yourself, under the NC, and still account lack of GOOD WORKS,
Behavior between men, AS SIN, as the Jews do, according to their Laws, that also is your choice.

I am not a Jew, nor do I say, Jewish laws apply to me, when Scripture is teaching Jewish men, about the NC., LIKE SOME PEOPLE DO.

13. One can lose rewards 1 Corinthians 3:1-15.

No kidding! IF your works are not glorifying Gods name, you lose out on receiving rewards.....you know, like when one is acting on that "outside temptation"...as some people claim they do.

One can lose salvation 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.

And? Who do you think that applies TO?
A man who HAS RECEIVED Salvation from God? Because that would BE FALSE.

A man WHO, does not YET, AGREE to ACCEPT his Gift of Salvation? Because that would be True. If a man does not AGREE, to ACCEPT Gods gift of Salvation....then he doesn't have Salvation, does he? IF the man physically dies, having NEVER Accepted his Gift of Salavation FROM GOD, he loses it.

And what does that have to do with a man born of God? Nothing. Unless, you don't know a man Born of God, HAS ACCEPTED his Gift of Salvation from the Lord.

14. Nothing personal, but you can't rebut the truth of the scriptures and their context that I have posted.

Funny. You can NOT quote me speaking one word against the TRUTH of Scriptures.

Funny. You don't recognize, it is your "interpretation" of Scripture, I do not agree with.

Odd. You don't notice the difference.

15. You are using 1 John 3:9 to prove Unconditional Eternal Security and Sinless Perfection.

No. That is false. I have never said that, and if I had, you could have quoted me saying that instead of you SPEAKING FOR ME, yet again.

1 John 3: 9 says WHOSOEVER is born of God, doth not commit sin, cannot sin.

I have said, I am born of God, and sin no more.
I have said, I am born of God, and 1 John 3:9 does apply to me.

You cann deny it but you won't be truthful or fair.

Of course I can DENY YOUR WORDS, Are not what I have claimed.

Why is it so difficult for YOU, to allow MY WORDS, to speak FOR ME?

16. If you really live that close to God

Yes. Can't get much closer, since God is in me, and I in Him!

that you never sin good for you.

Well, I don't take the credit. It's ALL Gods Awesome Power IN Me!!

However, your tone of your words show that is not the case.

Seems some people, will reject the TRUTH in the Word of God, and look for anything to deflect away from being accountable for their own rejection of Trusting to Believe, what Scripture plainly says.

It shows a perception of pride and not being humbled.

It does seem PRIDEFUL, for men to teach, MEN are qualified to INTERPRET Gods WORD.

Why do you reveal that is what you do?

All the body is important and needs to be United and not Divided so the perception of being condescending towards those who may not be at the same level as another who doesn't sin.

So what is your point?
Those who claim, they are born of God, and STILL SIN, CAN BE condescending, speak for others, make outlasdish claims for others, and then pronounce shame on others, WHO made no such claims?

Brothers in Christ, ARE BROTHERS IN CHRIST, BECAUSE of they have Heart-felt belief in Christ, AND have accepted Gods gift of Salvation and become Born of God, and SIN no more, and Forever remain IN STANDING WITH GOD, BY HIS Power.

You preach, God and Sin are not compatible.
You preach, you HAVE Gods POWER IN you, but that is NOT sufficient to KEEP you from SINNING, as you say you Continue to SIN.
You preach, MEN, interpret Gods Word, and that is what you do.

You have shared your interpretations, TO which I do not agree with your interpretations.

You apparently are angry, at my not agreeing with you, since YOU brought up Anger from your own thoughts, and tried to pretend, you could make your thoughts, my thoughts.

I am not the one trying to CHANGE the words of Scripture, to mean what it does not say.

Nor am I ASHAMED, to TRUST to Believe what Scripture does say.

Nor am I ASHAMED, to disagree with you.

Nor does it make me PRIDEFUL, to TRUST to Believe what Scripture does say, instead of what YOU WANT Scripture to say.

You picking out Scriptures then Claiming or Implying FOR ME, I do not agree with Scripture is your own False accusations.

Try to rebut properly by giving scripture instead of saying scripture says when you have been off a few times.

1 John 3:9 says, whosever is born of God, does not commit sin, sins no more.

I claim I am born of God and 1 John 3:9 applies to me.

I have NO obligation to rebut, that you disagree with me, or that you disagree with what the plain words of Scripture says.

You don't want to BELIEVE, the Words in 1 John 3:9 AS THEY STAND, are TRUE, then don't.

Then I will believe, YOU ALSO, do not know what your rejection means....of NOT believing 1 John 3:9,
Is True as it stands......

SINCE Jesus IS "one of the WHOSOEVER" born of God....doth not commit sin, cannot sin....sort of puts a money wrench in your theory.

Study to show yourself approve a workman that needeth not be ashamed.

I am not ashamed....but since that is a reoccurring thought in YOUR MIND, that YOU keep mentioning...perhaps you should wonder why thoughts of SHAME, keep troubling you.

Show me you really have studied the word instead of giving rambling non-comprehension of what you think is truth.

Why don't you QUOTE ME, something I HAVE ACTUALLY SAID, and identify the post #, and then make your challenge that it is not Scripturally True?
Instead of rambling on, about how YOUR speaking for me, is not scriptural?

At this time being you are a walking contradiction in many points.

Prove it. My words are all here. Go ahead, copy and post my supposed contradictions that you claim, you have so many to choose from.

You can believe what you want but you must be fair in exegesis and rebuttal by scripture.

Of course I can believe what I want.

Too bad you find somehow fair for you to have appointed yourself, to be my spokesman, with your own thoughts and words.

Looking forward, to you posting MY WORDS About Scripture and YOUR challenge they are not according to Scripture.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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If that isn't what you're asking for in this thread, you're demanding others subscribe to your opinion which you offer plenty of.

You state he doesn't understand Scripture. Yet I noticed you ignore, dismiss or otherwise promote something different from others with no evidence except statements. I also note you ignore much Scripture to come to your conclusion.

bugkiller

Let me be plain.

1 John 3:9 says whosoever is born of God, doth not commit sin, cannot sin.

DO you believe 1 John 3:9 is true?
Do you claim to be born of God, and also claim to commit sin?

That simple.

Quoting me Scriptures that have nothing to do with those two questions, have no relevance for me to consider. It is simply a deflection.

Either one believes 1 John 3:9 is true or not.
Either one believes they are born again, and claim to continue committing sin or not.

However one who claims to believe 1 John 3:9 IS TRUE, AND claims to continue comimitting sin.....CANNOT both be true.

Giving me a host of scriptures in an attempt to SHOW, 1 John 3:9 is not True....is simply an attempt to teach the Word of Gods stands against itself, which I do not believe is True, or worth considering, by one who claims, men are qualified to interpret Gods Word, in an attempt TO MAKE their belief VALID, that men born of God do continue sinning.

If it is pages of opinions and accusations you would rather not be reading, then why not simply answer the two questions?

Can you honestly answer the two questions?


God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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You should spend lots of time in Jn 3 and Rom 3-8.

bugkiller

You should spend a short amount of time reading Rom 12:1, about giving ones life to God. And thereafter spend a great deal of time learning HOW a man gives his Life to God.

You just might discover it is a development of a relationship between Oneself and God.

I have NO Commands to trust in other men, or believe in other men, or have faith in other men, or follow other men.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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jerry kelso

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Let me be plain.

1 John 3:9 says whosoever is born of God, doth not commit sin, cannot sin.

DO you believe 1 John 3:9 is true?
Do you claim to be born of God, and also claim to commit sin?

That simple.

Quoting me Scriptures that have nothing to do with those two questions, have no relevance for me to consider. It is simply a deflection.

Either one believes 1 John 3:9 is true or not.
Either one believes they are born again, and claim to continue committing sin or not.

However one who claims to believe 1 John 3:9 IS TRUE, AND claims to continue comimitting sin.....CANNOT both be true.

Giving me a host of scriptures in an attempt to SHOW, 1 John 3:9 is not True....is simply an attempt to teach the Word of Gods stands against itself, which I do not believe is True, or worth considering, by one who claims, men are qualified to interpret Gods Word, in an attempt TO MAKE their belief VALID, that men born of God do continue sinning.

If it is pages of opinions and accusations you would rather not be reading, then why not simply answer the two questions?

Can you honestly answer the two questions?


God Bless,
SBC

sbc,
1 John 1:8 and 1John 2:2 is plain that Christians can sin as well as 1 John 3:9 is a plain statement of not sinning.
This is a paradox and they cannot both be right in their literal interpretations.
Do yo you understand this or no not?

2. I already showed you there is no difference between between a Christian and the term born again 1John 5:1 and showed there is a loss for rewards 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 and a loss of salvation 1Corinthians 3:16-17.

3. I already showed you the correct translation is one cannot go on sinning the Greek is harmartamein.

4. You are wrong and do not understand exegesis and are not teachable and you are skating and not addressing thing s with scripture that you should like your anger.
I have met people who lived closed to God and even heard one said he didn't sin anymore and why he said and it was nothing like you say or believe, but it was scriptural. Jerry kelso
 
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SBC

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1 John 1:8 and 1John 2:2 is plain that Christians can sin as well as 1 John 3:9 is a plain statement of not sinning.

I am born of God, I cannot sin.

1 John 3; 9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remains the in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Sorry, that according to you, 1 John 3:9 doesn't apply to Christians.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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