1 John 3: 9

[Sheep dog]

Because you accept what others think for me, say for me, and be being more direct in my own words is ignored and then simply sidetracked to becoming the topic.

God Bless
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
SBC

Sorry you feel that way. I think I'm responding to your posts and not motivated by others about you. What I feel about is gathered strictly from your posts. Maybe you feel ganged up on.

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. Of an alcoholic has not had a drink in twenty years is not an alcoholic.
That is used by AAA to help prevent them from taking a drink. That is trusting in oneself instead of God to show that he is free from that sin dominating them. If it works that is fine because Paul mortified the members of his body so he wouldn't be a castaway. However, he included Christ and his grace and power to overcome.

2. We cannot serve two masters at a time. You are servant to who you yield to Romans 6:16.
A truthful person is not a liar. Why? Because he is truthful.
This is talking about the real person's nature.
At the same time a truthful person could tell a lie.
A saint is not a sinner by nature but a saint could could commit a sin.
Bad people are bad because they are bad by nature, but a bad person could perform a good deed.
It is incorrect to say we are sinners saved by grace for we are not sinners anymore.
We could be called a sinner just for the fact if we commit a sin but not by nature.

3. John Wesley's view of sinless perfection was not about the impossibility of being able to commit a sin.
It was about losing the struggle that you give yourself to God in everything.
Like Paul gloried only in the cross and the old man was dead when he got saved and so he wasn't fighting him.
And Paul was not struggling in so much like some believe he was doing in Romans 7 because that was what they did under the Mosaic law. It doesn't mean we can't get back in the same state under the New Covenant if we allow ourselves to.
1 Peter 4:1-2 talks About Christ suffering for us as an example to overcome and that the flesh has ceased from sin so we should no longer live the rest of the time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
If we believe we can't help but sin, which many Christians do then we will spend more in the struggle of defeat instead of overcoming and living the purpose and destiny out that is God's will.

4. Being in the state of abiding in the light where you are not sinning is a possibility but not a probability.
However, when the seed remains concerning salvation God may chasten and reconcile but it wouldn't mean one is not born again. God looks at the heart more than if you merely miss the mark.

5. Sin brings us out of harmony from God is true. Not every sin is a death penalty and the Spirit convicts and we have the opportunity to be reconciled.
The only way that one loses the born again status is to change masters or the sin unto death Romans 6:16; 1 John 5:16-17.
The only way to not sin is to not sin by cooperating with faith in God for without faith it is impossible to please God Hebrews 11:6 Jerry kelso

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God...cannot sin.

Does that apply to you?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Sheep dog]

If I ask YOU, a Gentile a question ABOUT what YOU Believe concerning God...
and YOU give me a Jewish teaching, about behavior of men toward men....

What does that have to do with YOU or God, to which the question was asked?

When one FURTHER, in addition to the Jewish teaching, INCLUDE, Jewish Law regarding THEIR religious Laws....

What does that have to do with YOU?

Every time a Jew is teaching a Jew, and referencing .... to do this is good....to do this
IS A SIN....... a SIN ACCORDING TO WHAT?

Jewish Law!

Why, WHEN a Gentile is learning BEHAVIOR between MEN......do Gentiles NOT recognize, it is JEWS TEACHING JEWS? And SINS for Jews ARE "anything" they consider "wrong".

All of Jewish Laws are based on good behavior, and poor behavior.....toward God, toward other Men...taking care to follow their customs, their traditions, their Sabbaths, their lifestyles.....and ANYTHING not in Following those WAYS, according TO JEWISH LAWS.....IS...by Jews...CALLED A SIN.

A SIN of a Gentile, has NOTHING to Do with Jewish Laws, traditions, customs, lifestyle.

A SIN of a Gentile, IS NOT against Men, Animals, Things, Books, letters, etc.

A SIN of a Gentile, IS NOT BELIEVING IN GOD.

A SIN of a Gentile, IS corrupting his SOUL, by it being IN HIS CORRUPT natural born body.

THE Jews are simply the TEACHERS of HOW TO FOLLOW their LAWS.

THEIR Christ Messiah, IS THE TEACHER, for ALL MEN to hear, learn, read About and choose to BELIEVE IN GOD.....or not.

ANY man Gentile or Jew, can choose to BELIEVE in God and His Christ Messiah, His WORD, called the Truth, called by the name JESUS....or not.

Any man WHO, does so Believe, IS forgiven for HIS Disbelief....IS forgiven for corrupting His soul.....IS thereafter FREED FROM SIN, and His soul restored, His spirit quickened, and FOREVER WITH THE Lord His God....
FOREVER in standing WITH GOD....

He can NEVER AGAIN BE IN SIN Standing AGAINST GOD. He gave His Life to God, and forever GOD KEEPS that man unto Himself,
Giving that man FULL FAITH-FULLNESS to God ONLY, BY Gods Power.

So WHY do Gentiles, Learning from Scripture,
FROM JEWS, NOT KNOW, they can not SIN Against God?

WHY do Gentiles, Learing BENIFICIAL ways of behavior of men toward men.....ALSO, adopt
And pretend .... when a Jews is called committing a SIN....a Gentile thinks and testifies ... hey, they did what a Jew did in Scripture....oh, oh, ...they committed a SIN?

It is a SIN unto a JEW, BECAUSE IN THEIR LAW, it is a sin....

How is it a SIN for a Gentile....unless the Gentile thinks they are SUBJECT TO JEWISH LAW? AND so WHY are Gentiles pretending they ARE Subject to Jewish Laws?

We can LEARN from Jesus' OWN words what is acceptable. We can LEARN from Jewish texts, behaviors among men.....

WITHOUT pretending we are Jews, or that we are subject to Jewish Laws and customs.

Christ Jesus taught, very simply, BELIEVE in God, in His Word, with all your heart, confess to Him your belief, and He will FORGIVE all of your SINS AGAINST HIM...He WILL Save your Soul, wash your body in His blood, keep your life with Him, quicken your spirit, and you continue with your bodily life IN HIM, teaching others His Word.

And Jesus' commands....?
Love the Lord with all you heart, soul, spirit, mind.
Love other men as yourself.

Learn behaviors from the Jewish texts...
And if you harm another, fix it. Apologize, pay reparations, and forgive men who cause you a trespass or otherwise harm.
And after you fix it...YOU suffer the consequences...lean on Him for comfort, WHILE you suffer the consequences...and hopefully learn a lesson from your consequences.
Be helpful to others, speak his words, that others may choose to convert.
Be prepared to BE belittled, disparaged, perhaps even bodily killed.... FOR unashamedly Standing UP speaking the Lords Word of Truth. And lean on the Lord for comfort.

God Bless,
SBC

If you want to totally sever yourself from Jews there is all kinds of paganism. If you don't want to accept the words of Jesus, His disciples, Paul and Luke (a gentile), you can't be a Christian. While Christianity is connected to Judaism, it simply isn't Judaism in any form.

 

[Sheep dog]

You shouldn't.
Many men can be on the same path...however rarely are they all at the same distance.

And the distance simply means, how much knowledge and understanding they have gained. IOW - age, gender, race, etc. has nothing to do with it.

Individuals determine how much they hear, read, WHAT they read, WHO they hear, how often, to what extent.

Some are content with simply hearing once a week what someone else tells them, while others may read and study and dedicate very long periods to time and effort.

Everyone is different, so also is their distance.

I cannot know what you do, nor do you know my efforts. Same applies between others.
We can only have an indication.

I have some indication of (correction) another forum member.
Since He has revealed he is Catholic.
His belief is established as a Christian Catholic, being Christ centered, and additionally, he has an "earthly father", called the Pope, who hands down his understanding, by and through all the different Catholic Churches, Cardinals, Priests, Teachers, etc.

That already presents a barrier of sorts between he and I.

I do not believe the Pope is a mans earthly father. I believe our earthly father is Abraham, given the position by Promise of God Himself.
I do not believe Gods OWN Understanding of His OWN Word, comes from other men, but rather ONLY God Himself.
Other men can speak Gods Understanding, perhaps giving other men interest to SEEK Gods Understanding BY asking God themselves....or simply believe what they are told to believe.

ONLY GOD can truly give a man His Understanding of His Word.

God Bless,
SBC

You've been offered what ever you want to call items to bring you to my level and toss them. Why? You've no room to complain.

 

[SBC]

Aren't you a little out of control?

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jn 3

bugkiller

1 John 3: 9

Whosoever is born of God...cannot sin.

Would that apply to you?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God...cannot sin.

Does that apply to you?

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Yes it does and in the proper context.

2. Let me ask you a question.
When Paul said "I die daily" in 1 Corinthians 15:31 do you think he meant? Jerry kelso

 

[Sheep dog]

Certainly. Read my posts. Not once have I said I have no sin.

And read comments to me...

Well, if a man says he has no sin...he is a liar.

Are these just words by another poster or are they indeed words from the same book of the Bible you base your argument on?

I Jn 1:10, 2:4 for instance.

What's up with that?

Your focus.

What's up with that, is ANOTHER MAN, without breaking forum rules, is calling me a liar ?

Is it them or the Scripture as I pointed out?

For what? For saying I have no sin?

Sorry but I can't get into that without appearing to break forum rules. This isn't a place for personal counseling.

No. For claiming their UNDERSTANDING that they "THINK" I am claiming, to have no sin.

Yet you claim other have sin. What you really imply is live in sin. That's wrong. Failure isn't practice or love of something.

However, not once have I ever said that!

What I have claimed....AS THEY with their miminial understanding, and deaf to what I am saying....

No we're not deaf to what you're saying.

I have said, I sinned, and appealed TO GOD....(not them)....confessed my Sin Against God to God....(not them)....and God Forgave me of my sins Against Him....(not them)...and God ..(not them)...has COVERED (not them) my sins against Him....God has forever FREED me ...(not them)...from Sin Against God...God KEEPS me with His Power...(not them)....from EVER Again SINNING AGAINST HIM...

Cool. The issue seems to be that you've never failed since becoming a Christian. Great testimony. It's not that Scripture permits sin, but provides a way to deal with it and overcome. For some it's easier than others.

Where in all that I have said does it appear of me saying I have no sin? It doesn't.

Read your posts. Start at post 1.

Nor have I at ANY TIME claimed to not have sin. My SIN is forgiven. My SIN is covered.
I can NEVER AGAIN SIN. The Lords Power KEEPS ME FREE from Sin. The Lords Power has GIVEN me FULL faithfulness IN HIM ONLY.

Effectively, no.

So, ya for several pages, OTHERS have grabbed a scripture, that DOES NOT APPLY TO ME, but that gives them a way (without breaking forum rules) to call me a liar, then
Complain, I am so rude, when I am fully aware of what they have just conivingly accomplished.

No, your ignoring Scripture that has been quoted to you.

Yes, I laugh, because with men, their trickery is accomplished, (tee hee, called you a liar, with scripture, didn't break forum rules, na, na, na, and others jump on board, ha, ha ha)....but with God, it is a fail.

God Bless,
SBC

May God humble you.

 

[SBC]

Sorry you feel that way. I think I'm responding to your posts and not motivated by others about you. What I feel about is gathered strictly from your posts. Maybe you feel ganged up on.

Could you respond to this?

1 John 3: 9

Whosoever is born of God....cannot sin.

Would this apply to you?

Happy New Year,
God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

If you want to totally sever yourself from Jews there is all kinds of paganism. If you don't want to accept the words of Jesus, His disciples, Paul and Luke (a gentile), you can't be a Christian. While Christianity is connected to Judaism, it simply isn't Judaism in any form.

Sever myself?
Apparently you have not understood, I said no such thing.

Am I under their Law. No.
Is their teaching beneficial. Yes.
Do I have to pretend I am under their Law, to benefit from their teaching. No.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

You've been offered what ever you want to call items to bring you to my level and toss them. Why? You've no room to complain.

Perhaps you could identify my supposed complaint, so I could answer your Why.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. Yes it does and in the proper context.

Since Scripture says, let your yes be yes and your no be no...

What is this caveat, of "in the proper context" mean, that you do not simply answer yes?

2. Let me ask you a question.
When Paul said "I die daily" in 1 Corinthians 15:31 do you think he meant? Jerry kelso

To the men of Corinth ~
Paul first establishes his standing in Christ.
And begins speaking to men also established in Christ.

Then throughout 1 Corinthians...Paul addresses some of the other men, NOT established in Christ, NOT knowing God.

I can observe WHO specifically Paul is talking TO and ABOUT, while several times, speaking in first person, we, I...and also directly, as you.

Off hand, I would say, Paul is revealing frustration of men who reject the Word of God

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Your focus.

Challenging how claims of opposites are true.

What you really imply is live in sin.

Flat out False!

The issue seems to be that you've never failed since becoming a Christian.

If you would like to CHANGE the ISSUE from, men who Claim to be born of God, and continuing TO SIN...and HOW that is in opposition of Scripture.

To focus ON ME....

Then focus on my standing, of what I have said, instead of what you think "it seems to be".

I am Born of God, I sin NO MORE.

It's not that Scripture permits sin, but provides a way to deal with it and overcome. For some it's easier than others. Read your posts. Start at post 1.Effectively, no.No, your ignoring Scripture that has been quoted to you.May God humble you.

Fully aware, Scripture is not about permitting sin.

Fully aware, Scripture teaches HOW TO overcome sin.

Overcoming sin is easier for some than others?

Perhaps, for a Jew it is hard, since their overcoming is dependent upon being obedient to their Law.

For whosoever is born of God, it is the Power of God, His Light, that covers a mans sin, that He sins NO MORE

It appears you fail to recognize the signifance.

Ya, ya, I'v seen at ad nausim the repeated scripture 1 John 3:8 quoted to me.

Yet not once have I made such a claim, for others to quote that to me, AS IF, IT WAS something I claimed. Weird!

Whereas MANY HAVE CLAIMED, THEY ARE BORN OF GOD, AND CONTINUE TO SIN...

Thus quoting...1 John 3:9...IS APPROPRIATE TO QUOTE TO THEM!

May God Humble you.
SBC

 

[SBC]

I've seen a lot of this, I generally avoid this sort of thing in a theological context. He is posing a rhetorical question, after conversion can a believer sin. You have two choices, abandon Christian confession of sin or fall into the fallacious circular logic of the flawed propositional logic he is using. Its an old trick and not a cleaver one. When he persists it makes biblical and theological discussion impossible, which appears to be the whole point.

No not a rhetorical question.
No tricks!

You must be fully aware men ARE born IN SIN. Men COMMIT sin.

God has provided a WAY, for men to be FORGIVEN their Sins, and Become Born of God, that they SIN NO MORE.

The PAST SIN of a man is already established.
Nothing in Scripture says the mans SIN has disappeared OUT of his body, and he now has no sin.

No one is claiming they HAVE NO SIN, as 1 John 8 speaks to.

The CLAIM IS man HAS SIN.
God FORGIVES the mans SIN.
God COVERS the mans SIN.
God gives (some) men HIS SEED.
The man BECOMES "born of God".
A man WHO BECOMES "born of God"
SINS "NO MORE"....
THE MAN CANNOT SIN, ANY MORE.

YET, there ARE MEN WHO CLAIM;
THEY ARE BORN OF GOD, AND CONTINUE TO SIN....

The question is not rhetorical.

The question IS, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?
ONLY the man WHO MAKES THE CLAIM,
He IS born of God, and continues to SIN,
Can answer that question, according to HOW he can supersede the Word of God, and HE BE RIGHT and Scripture BE WRONG.

Problem IS...They CAN EASILY SEE the conflict their CLAIM has with Scripture, and instead of ADMITTING their Claim Conflicts and ACTUALLY IDENTIFYING the Basics FOR THEIR CLAIMS, in an effort to come to the TRUTH and resolve the CONFLICT.....

It is so much easier TO NOT ADMIT they Conflict with Scripture and deflect to ANYTHING else.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God....cannot sin.

Are you born of God?
Do you claim you still sin?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

Since Scripture says, let your yes be yes and your no be no...

What is this caveat, of "in the proper context" mean, that you do not simply answer yes?



To the men of Corinth ~
Paul first establishes his standing in Christ.
And begins speaking to men also established in Christ.

Then throughout 1 Corinthians...Paul addresses some of the other men, NOT established in Christ, NOT knowing God.

I can observe WHO specifically Paul is talking TO and ABOUT, while several times, speaking in first person, we, I...and also directly, as you.

Off hand, I would say, Paul is revealing frustration of men who reject the Word of God

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. There are plain statements in scripture such as For God so loved the whole world that he gave us his only begotten son.
One can understand it plainly how much God loved the whole world.
There are other scriptures that will agree with it such as Romans 5:8; but God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

2. 1Corinthians 15:31; cannot necessarily be taken literally of actually happening though a possibility but not a probability.

3. My yes and no's are a plain statement with a context.
This was Jesus speaking under the Mosaic law to the Jews.
The context was speaking of oaths and swearing according to those oaths.
If they swore by their head would be futile because they couldn't make one hair white or black.
Be distinct in your nays and yeas according to the oaths of the law of Moses Leviticus19:12. Performing any other way would be out of an evil heart.

4. The Bible says to study to show yourself approved of God a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth 2 Timothy 2:15.
One must know the immediate context before going somewhere else, because then it could be just a pretext.

5. It is good to know about the book context.
At the same time that doesn't mean it will agree with an immediate context of a particular chapter or be the basis.

6. Most people believe the phrase I die daily means dying to sin because people don't die physically everyday.
They are wrong because Paul said in Romans 6 that he believed in dying to sin once as Christ died.
He gloried only in the cross Galatians 6:14.

7. The frustration of sinful men is not in the context at all.

8. Paul said the only gospel is the death, burial and resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Verses 5-8 shows the witnesses of the resurrection.
Verses 12 talks about people like the Sadducees of Jesus day who didn't believe in the physical resurrection.
Paul argues that if there is no resurrection of Christ the people's faith is in vain, their preaching was in vain, Christ died in vain and those fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
Verse 23 shows the firstfruits of the resurrection from Christ to those at his coming.
Then verse 24-28 is about the millennial kingdom to the kingdom of God when God will be all in all.

9. A person could die physically everyday because of the power of God. It is a possibility but not a probability.
Verse 30 says, why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
They could be killed for the cause of Christ everyday.
Romans 8:36; As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Verse 31: I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

10. Paul was protesting because his point is that we put our lives on the line for the cause of Christ each day and could be killed. If there is no hope of a physical resurrection then we are stupid for preaching about it and putting our lives on the line for Christ.
This was the same principle as verse 29: if those that believed in baptism are not smart if the dead doesn't rise at all.
That is the immediate context of the chapter.

11. To agree with that go to 2 Corinthians 4:10; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus that the lifealso of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
Verse 11; For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal life.
So it was the message of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ that they could be killed for literally and in the hearts of men.
So if there was no physical resurrection then propagating the gospel was in vain.

12. If one doesn't understand context they could make it say whatever they think it says.
This is associated with what is known as allegorical interpretation. Jerry kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. There are plain statements in scripture such as For God so loved the whole world that he gave us his only begotten son.
One can understand it plainly how much God loved the whole world.
There are other scriptures that will agree with it such as Romans 5:8; but God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

2. 1Corinthians 15:31; cannot necessarily be taken literally of actually happening though a possibility but not a probability.

3. Your yes and no's is a plain statement with a context.
This was Jesus speaking under the Mosaic law to the Jews.
The context was speaking of oaths and swearing according to those oaths.
If they swore by their head would be futile because they couldn't make one hair white or black.
Be distinct in your nays and yeas according to the oaths of the law of Moses Leviticus19:12. Performing any other way would be out of an evil heart.

4. The Bible says to study to show yourself approved of God a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth 2 Timothy 2:15.
One must know the immediate context before going somewhere else, because then it could be just a pretext.

5. It is good to know about the book context.
At the same time that doesn't mean it will agree with an immediate context of a particular chapter or be the basis.

6. Most people believe the phrase I die daily means dying to sin because people don't die physically everyday.
They are wrong because Paul said in Romans 6 that he believed in dying to sin once as Christ died.
He gloried only in the cross Galatians 6:14.

7. The frustration of sinful men is not in the context at all.

8. Paul said the only gospel is the death, burial and resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Verses 5-8 shows the witnesses of the resurrection.
Verses 12 talks about people like the Sadducees of Jesus day who didn't believe in the physical resurrection.
Paul argues that if there is no resurrection of Christ the people's faith is in vain, their preaching was in vain, Christ died in vain and those fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
Verse 23 shows the firstfruits of the resurrection from Christ to those at his coming.
Then verse 24-28 is about the millennial kingdom to the kingdom of God when God will be all in all.

9. A person could die physically everyday because of the power of God. It is a possibility but not a probability.
Verse 30 says, why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
They could be killed for the cause of Christ everyday.
Romans 8:36; As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Verse 31: I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

10. Paul was protesting because his point is that we put our lives on the line for the cause of Christ each day and could be killed. If there is no hope of a physical resurrection then we are stupid for preaching about it and putting our lives on the line for Christ.
This was the same principle as verse 29: if those that believed in baptism are not smart if the dead doesn't rise at all.
That is the immediate context of the chapter.

11. To agree with that go to 2 Corinthians 4:10; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus that the lifealso of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
Verse 11; For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal life.
So it was the message of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ that they could be killed for literally and in the hearts of men.
So if there was no physical resurrection then propagating the gospel was in vain.

12. If one doesn't understand context they could make it say whatever they think it says.
This is associated with what is known as allegorical interpretation. Jerry kelso

Could you address, your yes but "in context",

The Text is clear. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin. Is there some "context" that would make that NOT apply to Jesus, born of God?

And also to you?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

Could you address, your yes but "in context",

The Text is clear. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin. Is there some "context" that would make that NOT apply to Jesus, born of God?

And also to you?

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Because you don't understand proper hermeneutics you showed you didn't understand the context of 1 Corinthians 15:31.

2. Just like I addressed my yes in the context of 1 Corinthians 15:29 I have already said my yes in 1 John 3:9 in context of abiding in him.
It is true that God and sin are not compatible.
This passage is present tense not an aorist tense.
It doesn't say that once and for all there is no possibility of sinning at all unless one never sins which is possible with cooperation in allowing God's power working in you. This is a possibility not a probability.
Abiding and salvation and remaining in you deal with salvation and is conditioned by the word if 1 John 2:24-25. If one doesn't do these things they will not remain saved.
We know that without blood there is no remission of sins Hebrews 10:22. We know that the gospel is based on the finished work of Christ.
1 John 4:7; Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; everyone that love th is born of God knowers God.
1 John 5:1; Whosoever believeth that Jesus Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat love th him also that is begotten of him.
This is a plain scripture that those who believe in Christ is born again.
There is no separation between a Christian and those born of God like you have espoused.
Jesus was begotten of God not born according to salvation for he was without spot or blemish in order to be the sinless sacrifice Hebrews 9:14-15.

3. Passages like 1 Corinthians 15:31 and 1 John 3:9 are called paradoxes. One scripture says you can sin and the other says you cannot, but both cannot be right as absolutes. This is why context is very important in these passages.
Atheists use plain statements from the Old Testament but do not understand the context and cannot come to the knowledge of truth, not to mention they are open rebels and heathens that cannot understand the things of God 1 Corinthians 2:14.

4. If everything hinges completely on God's sovereignty then we would be robots and we would be perfect in all knowledge.

5 You are going to have to show more than one verse to prove your point.
I have already proven you wrong about separation of a Christian and those born of God.
I have already shown the context is about abiding.
So what is your scriptures that rebut the context of scripture that I have stated about abiding and that there is no difference between a Christian and one born again? Jerry kelso

 

[mark kennedy]

No not a rhetorical question.
No tricks!

It's a rhetorical fallacy, and a direct contradiction.

THE MAN CANNOT SIN, ANY MORE.

Which is to say you have no sin.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.… (1 John 3:7-9)​

YET, there ARE MEN WHO CLAIM;
THEY ARE BORN OF GOD, AND CONTINUE TO SIN....

The question is not rhetorical.

The question IS, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?
ONLY the man WHO MAKES THE CLAIM,

Are you born of God?
Do you claim you still sin?

If we claim we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. That is a sin. We are done here. I avoid discussing theology on here for that reason. It's depressing to see something so basic distorted like this.

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. Because you don't understand proper hermeneutics you showed you didn't understand the context of 1 Corinthians 15:31.

Thanks for providing how you arrive at your ability to interpret scriptures to change their meaning.

Hermeneutics, allows for men to interpret scriptures.

Scripture says understanding of Scripture comes from God, not men.

2. Just like I addressed my yes in the context of 1 Corinthians 15:29 I have already said my yes in 1 John 3:9 in context of abiding in him.

Yes, you sin no more, "IF" you abide in Him?
Correct?
So, to BE, born of God, Gods seed, is IN YOU, remains IN YOU, but you have the ability,
TO or NOT TO abide in Him?
When you Abide IN HIM, you do not sin?
And When at times you DO NOT Abide IN HIM, you do sin?

Can you simply reply yes or no to the questions?

[/QUOTE]This is a plain scripture that those who believe in Christ is born again.
There is no separation between a Christian and those born of God like you have espoused.[/QUOTE]

So, ALL Christians, believe in Christ, and when decides to quit being a Christian, it is because.....he no longer believes in Christ?
And he becomes "UNBORN of God"?

3. Passages like 1 Corinthians 15:31 and 1 John 3:9 are called paradoxes. One scripture says you can sin and the other says you cannot, but both cannot be right as absolutes.

1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Philosophical hermeneutics....corrects Paul,
IS that your VIEW?
One should read 1 Corinthians 15:31 to say...

1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ. Jesus our Lord...........I SIN DAILY.

4. If everything hinges completely on God's sovereignty then we would be robots
and we would be perfect in all knowledge.

Nonsense. God made man in His Likeness of very good. God didn't reproduce Himself.
Being very good, has nothing to do with being all knowing.

5 You are going to have to show more than one verse to prove your point.
I have already proven you wrong about separation of a Christian and those born of God.

Believe and become saved is already established.
Confession and presenting ones body is already established.
Loving the Lord is already established.
Freed from SIN is already established.
Becoming made WHOLE is already established.

Romans 10:9
That IF thous shalt confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God has trained him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 6: 6
.....our old man is crucified....
Roman 6: 7
For he that is dead is freed from sin

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all they soul, and with all they mind.

1 Thes 5: 23
The very God of peace SANCTIFY YOU WHOLLY;

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER IS born of God....CANNOT SIN.

I have already shown the context is about abiding.
So what is your scriptures that rebut the context of scripture that I have stated about abiding and that there is no difference between a Christian and one born again? Jerry kelso

So, people who go to an Alter Call, BECOME Christians, the moment they become Born Again?

What, if they had been attending the Church for a year beforehand, calling themselves Christians....were they already Christians, born again, before they Confessed? or liars for calling themselves Christians?

How does that work according to you?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

It's a rhetorical fallacy, and a direct contradiction.



Which is to say you have no sin.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.… (1 John 3:7-9)​

If we claim we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. That is a sin. We are done here. I avoid discussing theology on here for that reason. It's depressing to see something so basic distorted like this.

I suppose it would be frustrating to reword what one says, they wonder why the one will not explain what another has said for them.

Whosoever is born of God....cannot sin.

It has very clearly been established...
Men are NOT naturally born of God.

It has very clearly been established...
Natural men are born IN SIN.
Natural men commit SIN.
Natural men are FORGIVEN their SIN.
Natural men Forgiven have their SIN COVERED!
Natural men will THEN receive Gods SEED.
Natural men will THEN become born of God.
Natural men will THEN SIN NO MORE.

It is almost comical to hear men quote;
1 John 3:8. AS IF they are trying to POINT OUT, a man saying he "HAS NO SIN"....

Is the same man who has claimed he has sin, and it is covered.

It appears, even after being told and explained; some men do not comprehend the difference between:
"Have no sin"
And
"Covered sin".

I have Covered my children, and amazingly, I still have children.

Which is to say you have no sin.

Guess for some: to say, I covered my children, is to say, they have no children.

Funny.
God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

Thanks for providing how you arrive at your ability to interpret scriptures to change their meaning.

Hermeneutics, allows for men to interpret scriptures.

Scripture says understanding of Scripture comes from God, not men.



Yes, you sin no more, "IF" you abide in Him?
Correct?
So, to BE, born of God, Gods seed, is IN YOU, remains IN YOU, but you have the ability,
TO or NOT TO abide in Him?
When you Abide IN HIM, you do not sin?
And When at times you DO NOT Abide IN HIM, you do sin?

Can you simply reply yes or no to the questions?

This is a plain scripture that those who believe in Christ is born again.
There is no separation between a Christian and those born of God like you have espoused.[/QUOTE]

So, ALL Christians, believe in Christ, and when decides to quit being a Christian, it is because.....he no longer believes in Christ?
And he becomes "UNBORN of God"?



1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Philosophical hermeneutics....corrects Paul,
IS that your VIEW?
One should read 1 Corinthians 15:31 to say...

1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ. Jesus our Lord...........I SIN DAILY.



Nonsense. God made man in His Likeness of very good. God didn't reproduce Himself.
Being very good, has nothing to do with being all knowing.




Believe and become saved is already established.
Confession and presenting ones body is already established.
Loving the Lord is already established.
Freed from SIN is already established.
Becoming made WHOLE is already established.

Romans 10:9
That IF thous shalt confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God has trained him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 6: 6
.....our old man is crucified....
Roman 6: 7
For he that is dead is freed from sin

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all they soul, and with all they mind.

1 Thes 5: 23
The very God of peace SANCTIFY YOU WHOLLY;

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER IS born of God....CANNOT SIN.



So, people who go to an Alter Call, BECOME Christians, the moment they become Born Again?

What, if they had been attending the Church for a year beforehand, calling themselves Christians....were they already Christians, born again, before they Confessed? or liars for calling themselves Christians?

How does that work according to you?

God Bless,
SBC[/QUOTE]

sbc,

1. Hermeneutics means the art of interpretation.
You have hermeneutics whether you want to admit it or not.

2. One can be a sinner and understand many things of the Bible. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand John 3:16.

3. I already gave you scripture that shows one can lose their salvation.
God will not go against your freewill if you decide to change masters. Whoever you yield yourself to is the truth who is your master.
You can call it unborn of God but it is not like an earthly birth where you can be born only one time. It's a moral and spiritual decision man makes according to his freewill. He can lose his salvation more than once just like the illustration Jesus gave about the woman and the lost coin which had to deal with salvation in the context.

4. 1 Corinthians 15:31 should not say I sin daily and I made that perfectly clear that it was about the putting his life on the line for the cause of Christ and believe in the hope of a physical resurrection.

5. Listen, there are people who are mere professors and not true Christians.
Calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean you are. Going to church doesn't save you.
One must repent but one must also have fruit and the markings for living as a Christian.
We can judge spiritual things 1 Corinthians 2:15 but it is God who judges the heart Revelation 2:23.

6. James deals with the man who looks in the mirror and sees whether you really believe what you say you do.
There is a justification of works as well as a justification of grace and they are two different things.
Justification of grace is God's approval of salvation and justification of works deals with the fruit that shows you have cooperated with God by believing in faith.
The same way in your daily life you have to be obedient and faithful and show fruit.

7. I do not believe that just because you sin as a Christian you are necessarily going to hell.
There are death penalty sins that left unconfessed might cause one to lose their salvation. God knows your heart and he is looking mores at your heart than merely breaking the law.
Actually. when conviction come it's better to take care of it then and there.
I also don't believe you just keep rededicating your life all the time in the context of being saved.
Apostasy usually takes a while but it can happen according to the laws of degeneration.

7. I have already explained the paradox of 1 John 3:9 and you don't want to believe that it is at odds with 1 John 2:2.
Christians can sin so 1 John 3:9 cannot mean that you never have the possibility to sin no more.


8. John says all unrighteousness is sin. What do think is unrighteousness? Make a list.
Do you worry, fret, get angry, obey God in all things? Do you ever miss the mark about anything? Let me know. Jerry kelso