1 Corinthians 14:34

[JesusFreak78]

In 1 Corinthians 14:34 it is written:
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.


Why is Paul writing this when we no longer are under the law, but under God's grace. The law was under the old covenant and we now live under the new covenant.

We also know Jesus was the first person who accepted women and didn't thought any less of them.

So why does Paul, who think it is very important we follow the new covenant and not the old covenant, ask us to follow something that is under the law?

 

[Morghaine]

I remember someone (maybe a pastor from long ago!) telling me that he thought this passage was directed to a particular problem in the Corinthian church - possibly a group of women possibly out of control there. I tend to agree with that scenario, as in 11:5, Paul is speaking about women praying and giving prophesy

 

[JesusFreak78]

That sound like a good answer.
Thanks for your help.

 

[lady06]

1Co 14:34

This command applied only to Grecian churches at Ephesus & Corinth. At that time, at Corinth, there was a religious fad and people were flocking to worship Diana and some other greek deity. These women brought about confusion and posed a problem to the elders of the church.

Since the men were educated and the women were not, they were exhorted to keep silent and submit to their husbands who have more knowledge on spiritual matters.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

 

[JesusFreak78]

Thank you for you answer. That explain a lot for me.

 

[PETE_]

14:32-33a. Paul apparently did not believe the prophets were any more restrained than their fellow members gifted in tongues. So he gave the prophets an instruction that was similar to what he gave the tongues-speakers (v. 28). The spirits referred to a prophet’s spiritual gift, which did not control the gifted member, but he controlled it (cf. v. 30). If two or three prophets spoke in a particular service, others gifted and with something to say could do so on another occasion. The church was not a forum for personal pontification or self-glorification; it was a place where people were to be built up and God was to be honored (cf. 10:31-33). The service and those who took part in it should reflect the character of God. He is a God . . . of peace, not disorder, and His Spirit worked to produce the same fruit (Gal. 5:22) in believers’ lives.
14:33b-36. Some of the verses in this section (vv. 34-35) were felt by some early copyists to be out of place at this point in the letter and so were transposed to the end of the chapter. A more drastic approach taken by some recent commentators is to regard these verses as spurious and unworthy of comment. Though the exact meaning of these verses is difficult to determine, neither expedient has much to commend it. In fact it seems that the guiding thread which prompted these comments by Paul about women was the same theme developed in the preceding verses addressed to those gifted in tongues and prophecy. The church members needed to exercise self-control on occasion, a self-control expressed by silence (vv. 28, 30, 34) in order that the assembly might be characterized by peace.
Apparently certain women in the Corinthian assembly needed to hear this refrain. More than uncovered heads were amiss in regard to their participation in worship services (11:2-16), and Paul was not about to dodge the problem.
Whether the admonition for silence was directed to all women (cf. 11:2-16) or only to those who were married may be debated. The word translated women (gynaikes) was used to refer to women generally (as in all 11 occurrences in 11:3-15), or to unmarried women (e.g., 7:34), or to married women (e.g., 5:1; 9:5; and all 14 occurrences in chap. 7 except once in 7:34). The context alone aided the readers in distinguishing between the alternative meanings.
Two indications strongly suggest that married women were in view in this passage. The first is the word submission (hypotassesthōsan, v. 34). When it occurs elsewhere in the New Testament with specific reference to a woman, it always refers to a married woman who was to be subject to her husband (Eph. 5:22; Col. 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Peter 3:1, 5).
The second indication is the phrase their own husbands (1 Cor. 14:35), whom the inquisitive women were to consult if they had questions. This would obviously be a difficult assignment for single women (e.g., 7:34) or those with unbelieving husbands (e.g., 7:13).
First Timothy 2:11-15, which enjoins women to be quiet in worship, is frequently cited as a parallel to this passage. But there too, married women were probably in view, as verse 15 would not apply to an unmarried woman. Also, when Eve is named in the Old Testament, it is as Adam’s wife (Gen. 3:20; cf. 2 Cor. 11:2-3, the only other NT passage besides 1 Tim. 2:13-14 that names Eve), and her submission is rooted in that relationship (Gen. 3:16, the text Paul probably referred to in 1 Cor. 14:34). In addition, the noun hēsychia in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 means “quietness, absence of disorder,” whereas the verb sigaō in 1 Corinthians 14:28, 34 means “remain silent.” (See comments on 1 Tim. 2:11-14 and 2 Thes. 3:12).
Paul then wanted silence on the parts of married women whose husbands were present in the assembly, but he permitted the participation of other women when properly adorned (1 Cor. 11:2-16). Such silence would express their subordinate (but not inferior) relationship to their husbands. This contrasts with a disturbance caused by their talking to their husbands during the service.
The Corinthian believers were not to think of themselves as exclusive, independent interpreters or recipients of the Word of God. (14:36). They, like those in all the congregations (v. 33b), were to submit to God’s truth by conforming to this standard of conduct.​

http://www.christianforums.com/t3695006-1-corinthians-1434.html#_ftn7v. verse

cf. confer, compare

vv. verses

e.g. exempli gratia, for example

chap. chapter

NT New Testament

http://www.christianforums.com/t3695006-1-corinthians-1434.html#_ftnref7Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. 1983-c1985. The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures. Victor Books: Wheaton, IL

 

[holdon]

Two indications strongly suggest that married women were in view in this passage. The first is the word submission (hypotassesthōsan, v. 34). When it occurs elsewhere in the New Testament with specific reference to a woman, it always refers to a married woman who was to be subject to her husband (Eph. 5:22; Col. 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Peter 3:1, 5).

The second indication is the phrase their own husbands (1 Cor. 14:35), whom the inquisitive women were to consult if they had questions. This would obviously be a difficult assignment for single women (e.g., 7:34) or those with unbelieving husbands (e.g., 7:13). Paul then wanted silence on the parts of married women whose husbands were present in the assembly, but he permitted the participation of other women when properly adorned (1 Cor. 11:2-16).​

This is nonsense. 1 Cor 14:34 says clearly "the women should be silent in the assemblies". It is as general as possible: "the women". It says then that they could ask their own "men" at home. That doesn't necessarily mean husbands. Unmarried women could ask the males at home. "Men" are contrasted to "women" in Mt 14:21 and Jn 6:10 (two words).​

The important distinction is not whether the woman was married or not, but whether she was in the assembly or not: she should be silent in the assemblies.
1 Cor 11:1-16 is about the general behavior and attire of women. If she were to prophesy (=speak from God) or pray, she should have her head covered.​

But from 1 Cor 11:17 onward Paul starts a new subject: the coming together in assembly.
That required some specific attention since the Corinthians had made a mess out of it. First it's about the Lord's supper, mutual respect and then about the mutual need of the gifts for each other, then about the the motive in service, then about order in their meetings. Here it is that Paul gives the rule that "the women" meaning all females, should be silent in those meetings.​

In the meetings: silence.
Outside the meetings: free exercise of their gifts, but with head covered if it was prophesying or praying.​

1 Cor 11 and 14 are in not in contradiction at all.​

 

[JesusFreak78]

14:32-33a. Paul apparently did not believe the prophets were any more restrained than their fellow members gifted in tongues. So he gave the prophets an instruction that was similar to what he gave the tongues-speakers (v. 28). The spirits referred to a prophet’s spiritual gift, which did not control the gifted member, but he controlled it (cf. v. 30). If two or three prophets spoke in a particular service, others gifted and with something to say could do so on another occasion. The church was not a forum for personal pontification or self-glorification; it was a place where people were to be built up and God was to be honored (cf. 10:31-33). The service and those who took part in it should reflect the character of God. He is a God . . . of peace, not disorder, and His Spirit worked to produce the same fruit (Gal. 5:22) in believers’ lives.
14:33b-36. Some of the verses in this section (vv. 34-35) were felt by some early copyists to be out of place at this point in the letter and so were transposed to the end of the chapter. A more drastic approach taken by some recent commentators is to regard these verses as spurious and unworthy of comment. Though the exact meaning of these verses is difficult to determine, neither expedient has much to commend it. In fact it seems that the guiding thread which prompted these comments by Paul about women was the same theme developed in the preceding verses addressed to those gifted in tongues and prophecy. The church members needed to exercise self-control on occasion, a self-control expressed by silence (vv. 28, 30, 34) in order that the assembly might be characterized by peace.
Apparently certain women in the Corinthian assembly needed to hear this refrain. More than uncovered heads were amiss in regard to their participation in worship services (11:2-16), and Paul was not about to dodge the problem.
Whether the admonition for silence was directed to all women (cf. 11:2-16) or only to those who were married may be debated. The word translated women (gynaikes) was used to refer to women generally (as in all 11 occurrences in 11:3-15), or to unmarried women (e.g., 7:34), or to married women (e.g., 5:1; 9:5; and all 14 occurrences in chap. 7 except once in 7:34). The context alone aided the readers in distinguishing between the alternative meanings.
Two indications strongly suggest that married women were in view in this passage. The first is the word submission (hypotassesthōsan, v. 34). When it occurs elsewhere in the New Testament with specific reference to a woman, it always refers to a married woman who was to be subject to her husband (Eph. 5:22; Col. 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Peter 3:1, 5).
The second indication is the phrase their own husbands (1 Cor. 14:35), whom the inquisitive women were to consult if they had questions. This would obviously be a difficult assignment for single women (e.g., 7:34) or those with unbelieving husbands (e.g., 7:13).
First Timothy 2:11-15, which enjoins women to be quiet in worship, is frequently cited as a parallel to this passage. But there too, married women were probably in view, as verse 15 would not apply to an unmarried woman. Also, when Eve is named in the Old Testament, it is as Adam’s wife (Gen. 3:20; cf. 2 Cor. 11:2-3, the only other NT passage besides 1 Tim. 2:13-14 that names Eve), and her submission is rooted in that relationship (Gen. 3:16, the text Paul probably referred to in 1 Cor. 14:34). In addition, the noun hēsychia in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 means “quietness, absence of disorder,” whereas the verb sigaō in 1 Corinthians 14:28, 34 means “remain silent.” (See comments on 1 Tim. 2:11-14 and 2 Thes. 3:12).
Paul then wanted silence on the parts of married women whose husbands were present in the assembly, but he permitted the participation of other women when properly adorned (1 Cor. 11:2-16). Such silence would express their subordinate (but not inferior) relationship to their husbands. This contrasts with a disturbance caused by their talking to their husbands during the service.
The Corinthian believers were not to think of themselves as exclusive, independent interpreters or recipients of the Word of God. (14:36). They, like those in all the congregations (v. 33b), were to submit to God’s truth by conforming to this standard of conduct.​

v. verse

cf. confer, compare

vv. verses

e.g. exempli gratia, for example

chap. chapter

NT New Testament

Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. 1983-c1985. The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures. Victor Books: Wheaton, IL

Wow, that was a long and interesting post. I thank you for taking your time to explain all this for me.

It was a lot there I haven't been thinking about, so together with the other posts, this give more sense now.

 

[PETE_]

This is nonsense. 1 Cor 14:34 says clearly "the women should be silent in the assemblies". It is as general as possible: "the women". It says then that they could ask their own "men" at home. That doesn't necessarily mean husbands. Unmarried women could ask the males at home. "Men" are contrasted to "women" in Mt 14:21 and Jn 6:10 (two words).​

The important distinction is not whether the woman was married or not, but whether she was in the assembly or not: she should be silent in the assemblies.
1 Cor 11:1-16 is about the general behavior and attire of women. If she were to prophesy (=speak from God) or pray, she should have her head covered.​

But from 1 Cor 11:17 onward Paul starts a new subject: the coming together in assembly.
That required some specific attention since the Corinthians had made a mess out of it. First it's about the Lord's supper, mutual respect and then about the mutual need of the gifts for each other, then about the the motive in service, then about order in their meetings. Here it is that Paul gives the rule that "the women" meaning all females, should be silent in those meetings.​

In the meetings: silence.
Outside the meetings: free exercise of their gifts, but with head covered if it was prophesying or praying.​

1 Cor 11 and 14 are in not in contradiction at all.​

Paul began (11:2-16) and ended (14:34-35) his discussion of Christian freedom as it pertained to worship with remarks directed primarily at the behavior of women in the Corinthian church. Some have questioned whether his comments in this section refer to the actual meeting of the church or to extra-church occasions in which a woman might pray or prophesy. The fact that Paul appealed to church practice elsewhere as a feature of his argument in this section (11:16) suggests that he was discussing church meetings. Modern distinctions between meetings of the church for worship and other meetings of Christians seem based more on expediency than biblical evidence.​

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=27667278#_ftn1

 

[holdon]

Paul began (11:2-16) and ended (14:34-35) his discussion of Christian freedom as it pertained to worship with remarks directed primarily at the behavior of women in the Corinthian church. Some have questioned whether his comments in this section refer to the actual meeting of the church or to extra-church occasions in which a woman might pray or prophesy. The fact that Paul appealed to church practice elsewhere as a feature of his argument in this section (11:16) suggests that he was discussing church meetings. Modern distinctions between meetings of the church for worship and other meetings of Christians seem based more on expediency than biblical evidence.​

There is a clear cut between 1 Cor 11:16 and 17. That vs. 16 mentions assemblies means only that Paul had a broader consensus base on the matter.
Vs 17 clearly enters into a different subject and the theme is introduced at once: their coming together, which was a mess.
That this "coming together" is the theme is further proven by its repeated mention in vs 18, 20, 30, 34 and 14:23, 26

There is a clear distinction in the NT in the coming together as assembly and other personal behavior elsewhere.

 

[FollowTheLamb]

In 1 Corinthians 14:34 it is written:
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.


Why is Paul writing this when we no longer are under the law, but under God's grace. The law was under the old covenant and we now live under the new covenant.

We also know Jesus was the first person who accepted women and didn't thought any less of them.

So why does Paul, who think it is very important we follow the new covenant and not the old covenant, ask us to follow something that is under the law?

1. The law Paul was referring to was probably to be in submission to those in authority.

2. "We are not under law, but under grace." Read in context in Romans 6, our sin nature was using the law to gain self-righteousness (such as the Pharisees usign the law to appear more righteous than the common people). Now in the Spirit we may act in obedience to God out of faith and love. It depends on what attitude you have towards obeying God, not whether you obey laws or not. Your reference to law and grace does not apply to the usage of "law" the passage you mentioned. The context is different.