1 Cor 14: 22 - 25

[Perceivence]

Hey

I've been reading these verses and commentaries for them...but I still don't get it. Here it is from verse 20 in the NKJV

20Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21In the law it is written:
"With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,"[a]
says the Lord.

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[g] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand[h]comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

It seems to me that following the statement that tongues are a sign to unbelievers and prophecy to believers in verse 22, Paul proceeds to explain in verses 23 - 25 why tongues are not for unbelievers and why prophecy is for them. This is apparently the complete opposite of what he said in verse 22!

An alternative explanation would be that tongues are a sign to unbelievers but it is not useful for witnessing to them. But then, what sense does that make? How can it be a sign if it isn't useful? What kind of sign to unbelievers can it be if they think the believers mad? Following in this alternative explanation is that prophecy is not a sign for unbelievers but is useful for believers. But then Paul in verses 24 - 25 talks of the practical use of prophecy for believers!

So what's up with this? What am I missing...and where? I'm quite certain that Paul wouldn't contradict himself within the space of a verse.

Thank you.

(Cross-posted on Exposition and Bible Study board for variety of perspective.)

 

[x Genuine For Christ x]

You confused me confusing yourself.

 

[AudioArtist]

I've never got that section. Logically, prophecy is a sign for unbelievers as it will reveal certain things that may lead them to believe God is behind such knowledge, while tongues may cause people to think we are mad (as Paul said.) However, I still don't understand why he stated the complete opposite prior to this either.

 

[Hadron]

It is confusing... but I'm sure some nice devout Baptist can show you that tongues has passed away, so you don't need to worry about it anymore.

 

[Emiliya]

I think Paul mean in the verse 22 that thing like it was when Holy Spirit came to earth (Acts 2:6 "When they heard this sounds, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each of us hears them in his own language")

And in the 23 verse Paul said about prayer on tongues when our mind cannot understand what we say, because it is preyer of Spirit (1 Cor. 14:2)

 

[FoundInGrace]

Hey

I've been reading these verses and commentaries for them...but I still don't get it. Here it is from verse 20 in the NKJV

20Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21In the law it is written:
"With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,"[a]
says the Lord.

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[g] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand[h]comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

It seems to me that following the statement that tongues are a sign to unbelievers and prophecy to believers in verse 22, Paul proceeds to explain in verses 23 - 25 why tongues are not for unbelievers and why prophecy is for them. This is apparently the complete opposite of what he said in verse 22!

An alternative explanation would be that tongues are a sign to unbelievers but it is not useful for witnessing to them. But then, what sense does that make? How can it be a sign if it isn't useful? What kind of sign to unbelievers can it be if they think the believers mad? Following in this alternative explanation is that prophecy is not a sign for unbelievers but is useful for believers. But then Paul in verses 24 - 25 talks of the practical use of prophecy for believers!

So what's up with this? What am I missing...and where? I'm quite certain that Paul wouldn't contradict himself within the space of a verse.

Thank you.

(Cross-posted on Exposition and Bible Study board for variety of perspective.)

i once heard of a person who brought an unbelieving relative to a service and there was a person standing behind them singing away in tongues, loudly apparently. The unbelieving relative did think everyone was loopy because of this and hasn't been interested since.
the person who took the unbeliever said if the person behind them had been praising God in a language the person understood, it would have been more positive in that person understanding about God.

So tongues are a sign to unbelievers that something is going on (loopy or not) but words of prophecy - whether preaching or from a prophet in the church are more useful to unbelievers than tongues because of course they can understand prophecy and usually the message of prophecy points a person repentance before God.

prophecy is also needed for believers to edify them in their walk with God.
In a group of believers where prophecy is happening, if an unbeliever is there it will be useful to an unbeliever while edifying the believer aswell - calling both to repentance of sin in their lives before God.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If you read the original passage from which this was quoted (Is 28) you will see something. The Jews Isaiah was speaking to would not listen to the word spoken by prophets and obey so He told them that if they would not listen to plain speaking then He would speak to them in babbling.
Paul quotes this passage with this idea in mind.
How you react to tongues will tag you as an unbeliever or someone that does not know what is going on or a knowledgeable believer who knows what is happening.
If an unbeliever or someone ignorant about tongues in the church hears tongues, he will say "what in the world are you people doing? are you all crazy?".
If a believer who is knowledgeable about tongues hears tongues being spoken in church they will know what is happening and not be upset or confused.
Therefore, how you react will tag you or distinguish you as a believer or an unbeliever.




This is why Paul goes on to say:

1Co 14:23-24(23) If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
(24) But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:


​

So if people come into church and all they hear are tongues, first off you will know that are unbelievers by the way they react (their reactoin is a sign).
But if you speak by prophecy, then they will be as good as believers in that they know what is going on, hear the message, and are convinced.
The "sign" therefore is not tongues or prophecy.... rather the "sign" is the way people react.


Use the word "of" instead of "to" and it is a little clearer:

1Co 14:22

(22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not OF them that believe, but OF them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[Apples of Gold]

I like the NLT Version, it's pretty self explanatory...... see what you think.

1 Corinthians 14:22-25 (New Living Translation)

22So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. 23Even so, if unbelievers or people who don't understand these things come into your meeting and hear everyone talking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. 24But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don't understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin, and they will be condemned by what you say. 25As they listen, their secret thoughts will be laid bare, and they will fall down on their knees and worship God, declaring, "God is really here among you."

 

[Heinrich]

Nice answer FoundInGrace

here is my 5cents:
Paul talks about 2 kinds of tongues in 1 Cor 12-14.
The one is "praying in tongues" the other is "speaking in tongues WITH interpretation"

Paul also says: When tongues are interpreted everyone is edified but if not it simply leaves people confused.

So if we "pray in tongues" ie. no interpretation, people will think we are nuts. Like paul explained.
But if somebody speaks in tongues and somebody interprets and with the conviction of the Holy Spirit this will be a testimony to unbelievers.
Lets think: Unbelievers are not born again. There spirits are dead. And since they aren't "filled with the Holy Spirit" the're spiritual senses would be a little dead?
Yes unbelievers have spiritual abilities sometimes. That is how God makes people. But anyways.
So if person stands up in front of them and says "I believe God is saying that ..."
They will probably think , he's making it up. While believers will be able to decerne if we're grown enough spiritually.
But if person stands up and speak in tongues and then somebody interprets.
Firstly (according to Smith Wigglesworth) tongues in this form is clearly decernable from the usual praying in tongues.
Secondly there is a message/ interpretation. And it should also be clear that the person is not making it up as he goes.
Then what further sometimes happen with this is that God gives one message throught different people. Each person has a part and only when things comes together the complete picture is seen.
Then the OT scripture listed there is still largely mystery to me.
I have an idea that is something like God saying:
"I will have people speaking to them in there own language who is actually not capable of speaking there language in the natural but even with this miracle they will not listen."
but I really don't have a clue.

Ok now for the prophecy part.
Firstly.. the gifts are more life groups of gifts. Prophecy is not just strictly one thing. And a lot of "acts" goes throught as prophecy.
Now one type of phophecy is what I 4 now will call "prophecying unto men"
This prophecy is for the edification of the recieving believer. (or maybe a group in some cases)
It might encourage. It might give strategic guidance for the future (althought this might be more the word of wisdom manifesting) It might be to deliver from past hangups maybe? It might simply be a way for God to share his love for a person. Or it might be a confirmation. Or a warning.
These things are all great for believers. If somebody prophecies to you and says "I believe God is saying that He sees you as a runner that will endure." (for example)
That is great right?
But if the person is an unbeliever it will just irritate him and he will not really be edified throught this.

Then there is what I will call "prophecying unto God"
This is like worshipping God with the help of the Holy Spirit ... might be a good explanation?
So if unbeliever walks in a hears people praising God and throught the conviction of the Holy Spirit he will be "convinced" and "convicted"
Our one bible school teacher was converted mostly because he walked into a place where people were "worshipping" God with all there hearts and was convinced that there must be something more.
this is the once explanation I have.

The other one that I sometimes wonder about but aren't so sure:
Maybe Paul included words of knowledge into the "prophecy" in that second verse.
E.g. My pastor and another guy was doing outreach. And they talked with one guy. He was all into evolution and science and was not really open to the gospel at all and argueing about all this stuff.
Then God gave my pastor a word.
So my Pastor said : "You can argue all you want with this stuff, but God knows that this morning you've got a call of your mother that is sick in the hospital..."
Well he dropped the arguments and became a christian

Keep your eyes on Jesus!
-Heinrich

 

[Perceivence]

Heinrich

I've never heard of prophecy as worshipping God as lead by the Spirit....

Otherwise, I get all of those...but I don't get why Paul says prophecy is not for unbelievers in verse 22 then explains how it can be used for them in verses 24 and 25.

 

[Hadron]

This was something I came across:
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/tonguesunbelievers.htm

I liked how this guy tied Isaiah 28 into it, but I dunno if it is the right way. He claims that that particular prophecy was fulfilled (and it was) and is just merely being referenced by Paul as an example.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Heinrich

I've never heard of prophecy as worshipping God as lead by the Spirit....

Otherwise, I get all of those...but I don't get why Paul says prophecy is not for unbelievers in verse 22 then explains how it can be used for them in verses 24 and 25.

Prophecy is not a sign of unbelievers. Unbelievers get prophecy just like believers do. What unbelievers do not get and so is a sign that they are unbelievers is that they do not "get" or understand what tongues are all about.
Tongues are a sign OF unbelievers. You can tell they are unbelievers by the way they react to tongues.

 

[Heinrich]

The question about: Prophecy unto God leading of Holy Spirit...
Well. It's sad that You've never heard that one can prophecy unto God.
In Rev 19 it says that the spirit of Prophecy is the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(Although I understand next to nothing of Revelations)
Ok firstly Prophecy is Holy Spirit inspired filled breathed or whatever terminology you like. If you try to prophecy without the Holy Spirit I don't want to be near.

Then why can't we prophecy unto God. And why would that not be worship?
God requires us to worship him in spirit and in truth. So I believe prophecying unto God is a great way of accomplishing this, won't you agree?

Just a little testimony: My one very good friend just a few days ago reported to me that in a prophecy "exercise" God asked him to prophecy unto Him.
Prayer is suppose to be 2-way communication.

Then the key to understand the seemingly contradicting verses is to understand that both tongues and prophecy include more than one type of act if you break it down, thus Paul is not talking of exactly the same things.

-Heinrich

 

[Perceivence]

I was wondering if Paul is speaking at all in verses 21 and 22.

The statements in verses 21 and 22 followed by an affirmation of the complete opposite in verses 23 - 25 reminds me of verses 34 and 35 (the ones about women's silence), where something is stated and then verses 36 - 38 that apparently directly contradict it. I've read on a theory that Paul is quoting from the Corinthians in verses 34 and 35. Is that possible in verses 21 and 22?