1 Cor 11 "this is my body" in communion vs Literal historic accounts

[BobRyan]

I believe that everyone who is visited by Christ for being born again has The Same Teacher. In John 6, Christ Tells the crowd that they must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. At that mandate, many stopped following Christ. He was Saying that we must read The Word of God which Christ was made flesh and be filled with The Holy Spirit Christ’s Life Blood.

In fact in that very chapter Christ said that the context of spiritual life - eating literal flesh is pointless... It is the Word that has Spirit and LIFE.

John 6
54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”
...? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Matt 16
6 And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 7 They began to discuss this among themselves, saying, “He said that because we did not bring any bread.” 8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, “You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread? 9 Do you not yet understand or remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets full you picked up? 10 Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets full you picked up? 11 How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The disciples walked away thought he was speaking literally, just like many people here. Ironic...

Well seems like if they were confused, then this would have been an easy fix. All Jesus had to do was explain that He was speaking symbolically or figuratively.

But He didn't.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Anyway, I don't think those verses are in the Authorized SDA Version of the Bible.

There is an "Authorized SDA Version of the Bible"?? do tell

Apparently you have been holding back on us ... surely you can tell us what that version would be after all these years ... I for one would like to read it.

 

[BobRyan]

Well seems like if they were confused, then this would have been an easy fix. All Jesus had to do was explain that He was speaking symbolically or figuratively.

IF He wanted them to come back.

He offered them a small "excuse" to leave if they wish... they took the exit.

Ok fine that was the "faithless" group leaving - but what about the faithFUL group that stayed? Even they do not bite anyone.

 

[Jipsah]

It is against the law of God to drink blood, and also, the Jerusalem Council taught the converting Gentiles to abstain from blood.
The disciples walked away thought he was speaking literally, just like many people here. Ironic...

Even after our Lord tried so desperately to explain what He really meant so they'd come back. Oh, He didn't? And was even going to let the 12 walk too? Wow, it's almost as if He did mean it literally! Nah, that's the sort of things that would have made the Jews reject Him out of hand.

 

[BobRyan]

That’s actually not true. In the dark ages, most literate people in the jurisdiction of the Roman church could read Latin, and furthermore, vernacular Bibles were available to a great many Christians (Slavonic-speaking Christians, including Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Carpatho-Rusyns, Bulgarians, Serbians, Dalmatians, Czechs), Romanians, Georgians, Armenian, Assyrians, Maronites and other Syriac speakers, such as the Indian Orthodox, Ethiopians, Copts, Arabic-speaking Christians, and others).

hmm. German, French, English etc seem to be missing from your list and the Bible was on list of "forbidden books" in Europe.

I am pretty sure there were plenty of English, German and French peasants that could not read latin books.

That’s because until much later, in the middle ages, literare Germans, French and English speakers primarily read and wrote in Latin. Indeed, Latin was the lingua franca for scientific literature well into the 18th century.

So nobody could read their own native language until they learned to read Latin?

 

[Jipsah]

I've never understood why this is a issue. Does it make any difference practically if the bread and wine is the actual flesh and blood of wine or symbolic or Real Presence.

I dunno, having come from the mouth of God Himself, it might possibly be worth paying attention to.

 

[lsume]

In fact in that very chapter Christ said that the context of spiritual life - eating literal flesh is pointless... It is the Word that has Spirit and LIFE.

John 6
54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”
...? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Matt 16
6 And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 7 They began to discuss this among themselves, saying, “He said that because we did not bring any bread.” 8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, “You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread? 9 Do you not yet understand or remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets full you picked up? 10 Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets full you picked up? 11 How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

I know The Truth and apparently you also know The Truth. If so, you also know that if the soil hasn’t been prepared, the seed won’t take. God Will not lose any of His elect. The world does not want The Truth.

 

[Jipsah]

hmm. German, French, English etc seem to be missing from your list and the Bible was on list of "forbidden books" in Europe.

Whose list of "forbidden books"?

I am pretty sure there were plenty of English, German and French peasants that could not read latin books.

Or any other kind, for that matter.

 

[Jipsah]

. He was Saying that we must read The Word of God which Christ was made flesh and be filled with The Holy Spirit Christ’s Life Blood.

Yea, y'all are all in agreement that He was certainly saying almost anything other than what He said.

 

[BobRyan]

Even after our Lord tried so desperately to explain what He really meant

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Peter’s Confession of Faith
66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69 We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”

 

[Jipsah]

There is an "Authorized SDA Version of the Bible"?? do tell

The NEV, isn't it? The New Expurgated Version, the one that has gotten rid of unnecessary verses like 1 Corinthians 11:27-29?

Apparently you have been holding back on us ... surely you can tell us what that version would be after all these years ...

Done!

I for one would like to read it.

Seeing a lot of the stuff you have, shall we say, religiously, avoided quoting in the past, I naturally assumed you read no other translation.

 

[Jipsah]

IF He wanted them to come back.

Yeah, I can see how He'd want to get shut of people who took Him at His word.

He offered them a small "excuse" to leave if they wish... they took the exit.

So you're saying He intentionally mislead them? Interesting.

Ok fine that was the "faithless" group leaving

The silly sods who thoght He actually meant what He said. Yeah, who need's 'em!

what about the faithFUL group that stayed?

Reckon He privately let them in on what He really meant?

It all comes down to knowing what Scripture really means, to your lot,doesn't it? Forget what it says, you have to grasp the real meaning that is hidden beneath the accident of what was said. It's about gnosis, innit? But the really fun religions always are, aren't they?

 

[Hmm]

I dunno, having come from the mouth of God Himself, it might possibly be worth paying attention to.

Do you believe you speak for God. Not disagreeing btw, just interested in your mindset.

 

[Hmm]

[

If it is Jesus Christ, then it demands the fullness of our honor and respect, for here is Christ come to command our praise and worship and to give us Himself fully.

I appreciate and respect what you say but, for myself, I would feel exactly the same even if it was symbolic, i.e:

If this is done to remember Jesus Christ, then it demands the fullness of our honor and respect, for Christ came to command our praise and worship and to give us Himself fully

 

[Jipsah]

Do you believe you speak for God. Not disagreeing btw, just interested in your mindset.

Nope, I'm content to let God do the talking, and feel no need to assign a "real meaning" to His words to make them fit my favorite doctrines. When our Lord says "Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you", I don't feel it necessary to change it to 'Take, eat: this is a symbol of my body, which is broken for you'. You may change it to "mean" "this is a cracker and a sip of Welchade for a church ritual we perform at odd intervals to commemorate the Last Supper or something" if it suits your worship format better.

 

[Dkh587]

Well seems like if they were confused, then this would have been an easy fix. All Jesus had to do was explain that He was speaking symbolically or figuratively.

But He didn't.

-CryptoLutheran

they weren’t there to learn.

They were more interested in actual bread rather than the signs he was performing anyways - they were stuck in the physical.

he didn’t bother to chase them or send someone to bring them back, he let them go their own way in their error

 

[Hmm]

Yes, absolutely. We see this reflected in the approach Anglicans, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and Assyrians take with regards to the handling of the Eucharist.

But what is the difference practically then, (other than a difference of ideas)? Isn't the practical thing the remembrance of Jesus' life where death whereswhere je demonstrated God's totally good and self-sacrifical love? The issue of Real Presence etc. seems very abstract and divorced from our actual lives compared to that. I'm not saying that it's wrong to think about things but surely what wet think about should make some difference to our lives.

 

[Dkh587]

Even after our Lord tried so desperately to explain what He really meant so they'd come back. Oh, He didn't? And was even going to let the 12 walk too? Wow, it's almost as if He did mean it literally! Nah, that's the sort of things that would have made the Jews reject Him out of hand.

He was teaching heavenly/spiritual things, yet the people who walked away were stuck in the physical/literal

The irony is that you and others fall into that same category of thinking he was literally teaching people to eat his flesh and drink his blood. The ones who thought it to be literal walked away from him.

 

[Hmm]

Nope, I'm content to let God do the talking, and feel no need to assign a "real meaning" to His words to make them fit my favorite doctrines.

Nope, you are not content to let God do the talking. You have to add your own clarificatory footnote hence your many dismissive posts