1̶̶̶0̶̶̶ ̶2̶̶̶0̶̶̶ ̶3̶̶̶0̶̶̶ ̶4̶̶̶0̶̶̶ ̶5̶0̶ ̶6̶0̶ 70k new cases a day in the US

[Jesse Johnson]

Yeah, ya gotta love authoritarian/totalitarian regimes.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It is basically so the individual wearing the mask doesn't spread anything. A n95 is a rating of 95% protection/filtration at .03 microns. That leaves 5% to get thru. Sneezing/breathing in a mask will catch most of the droplets. But covid-19 can get smaller than .03 microns, so it is just one of those things you get better odds if people do wear them.

Wouldn't it make sense to protect yourself from the 5% that comes from the sick person wearing the mask. You could filter out 95% of the 5% and trust your immune system to take care of the rest. That Italian town was infected by people that were "healthy".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You need to know how to use a mask for it to be effective for preventing. For example to take it off you must not touch the outside and go from the inside. It must be immediately disposed of after use in a closed container and hands must be washed immediately. It also should not be reused, thrown out and it should be changed frequently.

Health professionals will use a new one for each patient. I don't think if it's an effective solution for the healthy unless you know you will be exposed to a sick person, but after your visit throw it out immediately and wash hands. I see people doing all kinds of stuff with their masks that make them more at risk for wearing one.

To the sick, well they are already sick so touching the mask or handling it properly is less of a concern with the exception of disposing of it properly and promptly after use.

I think gloves should be used along with masks.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Or those recovering or a known carrier of the virus. But if you don't think you're sick and feel good it's better not to wear one unless you are caring for someone who is sick.

Then wouldn't the virus that might accumulate on the mask accumulate on your face?

 

[Bobber]

It is not a mixed message:

1. The masks do little to prevent a healthy person from getting an infection.
2. If a person is sick and, for whatever reason, has to, or elects to, go out, the masks (worn by the sick person) do indeed reduce the risk of transmission to others.

Does this really make sense though? OK infected person exhales....mask stops or hinders virus from leaving his face area. One not infected wears the same mask and yet the outside of it won't stop the virus from getting him? How can one say it'll work one way and not the other?

 

[DamianWarS]

I think gloves should be used along with masks.

Gloves are the same. If you don't know how to use them your create a higher risk for yourself and those around you. You can do it but know whatever you touch can be exposed by whatever is on the gloves. This is the same with hands of course but it's easier to wash your hands or use sanitizer often than it is to constantly be changing your gloves.

Got an itch? Remove you gloves by not touching the outside (there's a special way to do this), dispose of them immediately in a closed container, wash your hands, now itch. Now put on new gloves. Medical professionals will change their gloves after every patient regardless if there was contact.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Gloves are the same. If you don't know how to use them your create a higher risk for yourself and those around you. You can do it but know whatever you touch can be exposed by whatever is on the gloves. This is the same with hands of course but it's easier to wash your hands or use sanitizer often than it is to constantly be changing your gloves. Got an itch? Remove you gloves by not touching the outside, dispose of them immediately in a closed container, wash your hands, now itch. Now put on new gloves. Medical professionals will change their gloves after every patient regardless if there was contact.

I suggest wearing gloves (especially if one has cuts or sores) and hand washing.

Sadly most if not all 'research' on this topic is done on paper, not in the real world. We don't know if a preventative program using masks and gloves in a supervised setting will work because it has never actually been tried.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

. If you don't know how to...

Don't we spend $trillions teaching people how to learn and do things? How steep is the learning curve for gloves and masks. Is it something a normal person can overcome? We can send men to the moon and returned them to earth, but we can't learn how to properly use simple personal protective equipment?

 

[DamianWarS]

Then wouldn't the virus that might accumulate on the mask accumulate on your face?

Yes of course, but they are mishandled too much to be effective. Slight air exposure vs possible mass collective exposure, the latter will increase you chances of infection over the former.

If you want to use them to prevent get infected educate yourself how to use them and memorize things not to do. Also change them frequently. I wouldn't bring a used mask in my car or house (unless someone was sick in those places). Immediately dispose of them after use safely so you don't risk others.

For example if you go to a store to get milk, put it on in the store and take it off and dispose of it when you leave, wash hands carry on to the next place and do the same. People are too careless for it to really be effective and that level is something people are not interested in.

 

[DamianWarS]

Don't we spend $trillions teaching people how to learn and do things? How steep is the learning curve for gloves and masks. Is it something a normal person can overcome? We can send men to the moon and returned them to earth, but we can't learn how to properly use simple personal protective equipment?

It's easy to know the head knowledge but hard to untrain yourself of the hundreds of things we do that put us at further risk.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes of course, but they are mishandled too much to be effective. Slight air exposure vs possible mass collective exposure, the latter will increase you chances of infection over the former.

If you want to use them to prevent get infected educate yourself how to use them and memorize things not to do. Also change them frequently. I wouldn't bring a used mask in my car or house (unless someone was sick in those places). Immediately dispose of them after use safely so you don't risk others.

For example if you go to a store to get milk, put it on in the store and take it off and dispose of it when you leave, wash hands carry on to the next place and do the same. People are too careless for it to really be effective and that level is something people are not interested in.

So it isn't the mask per se, it's the improper use of the mask.

 

[Amittai]

It's reasonable to assume the numbers in China are somewhat higher than stated.

On a statistical programme on Radio Four they were estimating from scanty available evidence that Iran has getting on for 100,000 cases. Some Chinese brought covid to China from Iran.

Iceland says there may be 40 variants. Previously I heard there are two. This is probably why one bout doesn't necesarily confer enough immunity from the next.

I was told some people had three variants of ailment at 4 to 6 week intervals - first slight, then moderate, with some recovery in between, lastly very severe.

There has been only a fraction of the usual amount of flu so far this year.

The most likelihood of death from covid is similar to usual for your age, but these will occur in weeks not spread over a year. Then the normal amount of deaths will carry on occurring anyway.

I.e the death rate will at least double.

The most likelihood of going to hospital with covid is also similar to usual (for illnesses) for your age.

I've heard of a lot of lasting complications in lung damage and probably encephalitis.

I've been moderately well, but stayed in for a week. Several people will probably bring me a few groceries every now & again.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's easy to know the head knowledge but hard to untrain yourself of the hundreds of things we do that put us at further risk.

Is there a study that shows greater infection rates for those who wear masks?

 

[DamianWarS]

I suggest wearing gloves (especially if one has cuts or sores) and hand washing.

Sadly most if not all 'research' on this topic is done on paper, not in the real world. We don't know if a preventative program using masks and gloves in a supervised setting will work because it has never actually been tried.

Medical professionals do it all the time, their measures typically are too strict and impractical for people outside medical care. Ask a doctor, nurse or paramedic how many times a day they change gloves?

 

[SeventyOne]

One must assume the same for the US.

One thing about communist countries is they can carry out restrictions quickly, mobilize a lot of people at once and use land for what they see fit. I doubt the US is going to have drones patrolling areas and when someone opens their door the drone tells them to get back in the house.

Another thing about the communist countries is the numbers are state-approved, not actual. They have a history of lying about such things. I recall an interview with WHO officials, maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago now, and they were asked about the numbers for China. The guy who responded said that given their past truthfulness is such matters, they should probably be multiplied by 3 to 5 times the reported numbers.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Medical professionals do it all the time, their measures typically are too strict and impractical for people outside medical care. Ask a doctor, nurse or paramedic how many times a day they change gloves?

Their measures aren't necessary for people outside of medical care work. There's a big difference between a doctor caring for 20 or 30 different sick people all day long and someone going to the grocery store for a half hour.

 

[DamianWarS]

Another thing about the communist countries is the numbers are state-approved, not actual. They have a history of lying about such things. I recall an interview with WHO officials, maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago now, and they were asked about the numbers for China. The guy who responded said that given their past truthfulness is such matters, they should probably be multiplied by 3 to 5 times the reported numbers.

Saving face is baked into eastern cultures. Their go to response typically is also the response that looks the best. But that aside, numbers speak a lot, even if they are false. We can use the numbers reported as a bench mark, right now it's the top, and the US is going to surpass it. False or not the US will be the top of the list.

 

[DamianWarS]

Their measures aren't necessary for people outside of medical care work. There's a big difference between a doctor caring for 20 or 30 different sick people all day long and someone going to the grocery store for a half hour.

You need to view "sick people" as each new door that you open that's not your own. Hopeful it's not 20 - 30 places in a day.

 

[DamianWarS]

Today there is almost 6000 new cases and still climbing. The curve is only bending because the day isn't over.

Now 7500+ still climbing...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's easy to know the head knowledge but hard to untrain yourself of the hundreds of things we do that put us at further risk.

That's what PSA's (public service announcements) are for.