† RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST, PROOF OF.

[FEZZILLA]

There is nothing in the context that even remotely suggests what you say it is either!

Sure there is. But you did not attentively read the article.

After God scatters the Jews from one end of the earth to the other, He brings them back to Israel and blesses them. The scattering of the Jews from one end of the earth to the other didn't begin fulfillment until A.D.70. God cursed the Jews for their disobedience as He said He would due to being a "stiff-necked people." But God promises to bring them back. Keep in mind that these prophesies are written before the Jews even enter into the Promised Land.


Deuteronomy 30:1-6
The Promise of Restoration
30 When all these things happen to you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you remember them among all the nations, where the Lord your God has driven you, 2 then you must return to the Lord your God and obey His voice according to all that I am commanding you today, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul. 3 Then the Lord your God will overturn your captivity and have compassion on you and will return and gather you from all the nations, where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If any of you are driven out to the outmost parts of heaven, from there will the Lord your God gather you, and from there He will get you. 5 The Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. 6 The Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live."

So this prophecy is in connection with Isaiah 60:4-10. Verse 4,

"Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side."

Their sons and daughters will come from afar.

Verse 9,

"Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee."

Here again the subject matter is Jews traveling from afar. So where are they going? They are going back to Israel.

Verse 10,

"And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee."

God's wrath struck the Jews back in A.D 70. From there the Jews scattered all over the world. They arrive back to Israel only after God's wrath against the Jews is complete. Verse 8 is in context with traveling back to Israel and many Jews did return by air just as prophesied would happen. The gentile nations helped rebuild Israel as well and protected them. In no time do we see this prophecy fulfilled before 1948. Now any nation to curse Israel will also become accursed. And when God curses a nation...well, its not a pleasant outcome.

I havent, but plenty of Jewish Rabbi's have, & they interpret it nothing at all like you do! I think I would trust the Rabbi's interpretation over yours!

Well since Jesus is the Messiah the Jewish interpretation is wrong. There are things you do not understand about the origins of modern Jewish Theology nor will I share those things with you.

You do realise that people were living in America for thousands of years before Isaiah was written, and more thousands of years before 'Christopher Columbus' which is what you are probably referring to regarding the so called 'discovery'.

Nope. There were only 1-million native Americans living in America at the time of the revolution. A very educated Cherokee friend of mine knows Indian history very well. He said he laughs when he hears evolutionists teach about Indian history. Talk about white man making up lies about the Indians -- evolutionists do not agree with Indian traditions. My friend told me that Indians have lived in America for no more than 2000 years. He laughed at the 10,000+ years evolutionists assigned to them.

 

[FEZZILLA]

A unique civilisation "All Jews who were young and unmarried were virgins". I doubt if you could say that about any ethnic group, then or now.

No I couldn't. But that's another category of prophecies commonly known as EndTime prophecy.

You see, Isaiah 60:3 prophesied the greatness of the gentile nations who came to Christ. This was a paradigm in history fulfiilled by Christendom. Then there the great falling away paradigm of prophecy which was not fulfilled until 2005 (to present). That year marks the birth pains of the coming tribulation.

 

[FEZZILLA]

Which is exactly why all four gospels disagree and vary wildly from each other when they don't agree.

I don't read 4 different testimonies. That is probably because I've actually read the NT and many times.

I'm not sure why you consider Bruce Metzger to be an "overly skeptical atheist," but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

A 20th century man refuted by 1st & 2nd century church fathers. So no...I'm not impressed.

You'll need to do better than handwave away critical historical methods that all scholars use to determine why Mark was written first.

Has it ever dawned on you that these 20th & 21st century liberal historians may be too overly critical for political reasons"

*sigh

Was Mark the First Gospel Written?


This isn't even a radical notion, John is known as the 'maverick gospel.' (I'm assuming this is all new to you, so I'll do my best to bring you along slowly.)

The Story Of The Storytellers - The Gospel Of John | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/john.html

Oh wonderful, a link to 20th & 21st century con-artists (*rolls eyes*).

"14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

It's pretty clear what his name is. This is one of those prophecies that believers have to equivocate to accept. Not my problem.

Wrong again. The name Immanuel refers to God's presence among mankind. Immanuel means "God is with us" and Isaiah 7:14 is connected to Isaiah 9:6,

"For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government shall be upon his shoulder.
And his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

Who else was born of a virgin and bore this title? Only Jesus Christ fulfilled this prophecy and nobody else. Jesus is the word made flesh...God with us.

Nope.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ in the Book of Job

Job 19:23-27:

23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."

Sounds similar to the words of Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.: "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the Coming of the Lord." But Job's words were recorded 4000 years before Dr.King and 2000 years before Jesus came to earth as a man. Job also speaks about the resurrection of the dead at the end of time. In verse 26 & 27 Job mentions how long after his body is decayed, he will rise incorruptible and see God. When he says "and not another" he means that he will see as Job currently does see and not another version of Job--that the same body that died will be raised up again incorruptible and gaze upon the glory of God.

Jesus? Did Job know about the Christ 2000 years before Jesus came to earth as a man?

Job 13:15-16:

15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
16 He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him."

The word translated "salvation" in verse 16 is Strong's H3444 יְשׁוּעָה yᵉshûwʻâh which is nothing short of the name of Jesus in Hebrew.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

1 Corinthians 15:52:

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Our resurrection will not come with the corruptible features of the sinful nature of our mortal selves. We will be raised without sin and without corruption.

Actually, only Matthew's account has the massacre of the innocents.

Its covered then. Matthew was the first Gospel. The other three Gospels written after it did not have to mention it.

Massacre of the Innocents - Wikipedia

Flight into Egypt - Wikipedia

Wikipedia is an atheist run site who openly analyze Scripture with an atheist point of view. I refuted Wiki's Flat Earth article so their credibility is destroyed.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Coming from a Lutheran vantage point, I would simply point to where Jesus says, "You believe because you have seen Me, blessed are those who believe and have not seen." (John 20:29). At the end of the day the central Christian faith claim that Jesus rose from the dead is contrary to everything in our experience in life, it isn't a reasonable proposition. So belief in this claim does not arise from its evidence (there is no empirical evidence of this event) nor from its reasonableness (because it is wholly unreasonable). The Christian does not believe that Jesus rose from the dead on the basis of reason or evidence (though many such attempts have been made post hoc out of a desire to make such faith appear more reasonable), but because of faith. As a Lutheran I confess that faith, at least this kind of faith, comes extra nos, "from outside ourselves" as gift and grace (Ephesians 2:8).

One cannot argue a person into faith because, at least by our confession of faith, God alone converts.

To that end I fail to see much point in trying to place such faith claims under the scrutiny of scientific investigation, at least with the aim of trying to demonstrate the veracity of such claims. Those who don't believe have every reason not to, and those who believe believe not on account of the reason and evidence, but on account of faith.

I believe Jesus rose from the dead. Such a belief is absolute foolishness, unreasonable, and from the vantage point of reason completely without merit. That is not an attack on my own belief, since I most definitely believe--but I believe in spite of reason, not on account of it. I make my confession boldly as a fool in the world (1 Corinthians 4:10).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This is not an apologetics forum! This thread is closed.​