† RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST, PROOF OF.

[Speedwell]

Well I would hope that on this forum Christians would take the resurrection seriously.

We do. We just don't take your "arguments" seriously.

 

[Strathos]

Faith is the reason people give when they don’t have good reasons.

On the contrary, faith in God is the best reason there is.

 

[klutedavid]

Were you there? No, no you weren't.

You also were not there.

So what is the point that you are making?

 

[klutedavid]

Funny how the people who wrote the OT don’t think this.

The people that wrote the Old Testament manuscripts were long gone before Jesus arrived. The last author in the Old Testament was perhaps four centuries before the first century.

I cannot see how your argument can be a valid argument?

 

[FEZZILLA]

So you get to be rude to atheists but you don’t tolerate people being rude to you.

Because, let me tell in case you didn’t know - the above statement was incredibly rude.

I was kinda hoping we could stick to the topic. 6 pages have gone by and no discussion about the OP. Who is actually being rude here?

 

[HitchSlap]

I was kinda hoping we could stick to the topic. 6 pages have gone by and no discussion about the OP. Who is actually being rude here?

We’re still waiting for evidence. What you copy pasta’d were claims. Learn the difference.

 

[Theo Barnsley]

You should try reading for once. I already posted proof. You have not refuted it.

You didnt post any proof at all. Most of your original post had nothing at all to do with the resurection. You spent most of your post trying to claim that Isiahah prophecied planes. I dont know what that has to do with the resurection! Also a prophecy is only a prophecy if it predicts sommething, & you can recognise what the prediction refers or points to BEFORE it happens. I doubt that any jews after reading isaiahs prophecy thought, "i wonder when they are going to invent these planes that isaiah prophesied?"

 

[FEZZILLA]

You didnt post any proof at all. Most of your original post had nothing at all to do with the resurection. You spent most of your post trying to claim that Isiahah prophecied planes. I dont know what that has to do with the resurection! Also a prophecy is only a prophecy if it predicts sommething, & you can recognise what the prediction refers or points to BEFORE it happens. I doubt that any jews after reading isaiahs prophecy thought, "i wonder when they are going to invent these planes that isaiah prophesied?"

So if you were a Jew who lived in 700 B.C. and was given a revelation from God that showed your people traveling back to Israel by air, then you would say, "ah, that's an airplane!"? The only thing Isaiah had to compare an airplane with was clouds and birds and so he used both in verse 8. He ends the verse with a question mark because he wants future readers to be able to identify what it is they are flying in.

I've studied the prophecy for years and there is no other way of interpreting it properly. All other interpretations largely deviate from the context. Proper exegesis requires following the context.

 

[Theo Barnsley]

So if you were a Jew who lived in 700 B.C. and was given a revelation from God that showed your people traveling back to Israel by air, then you would say, "ah, that's an airplane!"? The only thing Isaiah had to compare an airplane with was clouds and birds and so he used both in verse 8. He ends the verse with a question mark because he wants future readers to be able to identify what it is they are flying in.

I've studied the prophecy for years and there is no other way of interpreting it properly. All other interpretations largely deviate from the context. Proper exegesis requires following the context.

As God is SUPPOSED to be able to do anything, there are many ways the jews could return by air, which includes just flying through the air, or sitting on a cloud. No aeroplane is necessary. Jesus was supposed to have disappeared into the clouds, & he is apparently supposed to return the same way. Are you expecting him to return in an aeroplane?

And considering your post is supposed to be about the resurrection, why have you spent so much time claiming prophecy of an aeroplane, & so little time on trying to prove the resurrection? It is obvious you have absolutely no evidence to present of the resurrection, which is why you have diverted attention to something else.

If youve studied the prophecy for years, & the best explanation you can come up with is prophecy of an aeroplane, then you are an extremely slow studier, since it is only about 2 lines! You should study something a bit more worthwhile, like how to interpret prophecy!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Then he should have taken this discussion more serious. If want to troll on my topics you will be ignored. I offer only serious discussions to those who still have a clear thinking mind. All trolls are ignored.

Sounds like what you really mean by "serious discussion", is any discussion where all parties agree with you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well I would hope that on this forum Christians would take the resurrection seriously. The proof is there and you may have denied but you didn't refute it nor can you.

Yeah, well.... it's kind of hard to refute unfalsifiable claims.

As always atheists don't care about truth. They'd rather throw dice with their souls and gamble against the odds.

Ow groovy....
Pascal's wager coupled with not-so-hidden-threats.

How unsurprising.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You also were not there.

So what is the point that you are making?

Seems rather obvious.

You said "WE have seen god".
"we", includes you.
But you weren't there.
So when you say "we", you really mean "they".
And since you weren't there, when you then say "they saw god", what you really mean is "they claim to have seen god". And you are just believing them.

His point was rather obvious to me.

You don't have knowledge or evidence or proper reason.

You just have belief in ancient extra-ordinary claims that aren't supported by rational evidence.

 

[HitchSlap]

I've studied the prophecy for years and there is no other way of interpreting it properly. All other interpretations largely deviate from the context. Proper exegesis requires following the context.

This, right here, is what "prophecy" is, someone who's "studied prophecy for years" best guess. Harold Camping, who "studied prophecy for years," got it wrong, twice.

lol

 

[FEZZILLA]

As God is SUPPOSED to be able to do anything, there are many ways the jews could return by air, which includes just flying through the air, or sitting on a cloud. No aeroplane is necessary. Jesus was supposed to have disappeared into the clouds, & he is apparently supposed to return the same way. Are you expecting him to return in an aeroplane?

The Jews are not God so no, they are going to fly without the airplane. You view on God and the Bible is very immature. I know of no Christians who interpret the Bible the way you do. 2000 years of Christianity and no one reads into things as you do. This is always a clear indicator that you have neither read nor studied the Bible. We humans are not God. Christianity is monotheism and not pantheism.

And considering your post is supposed to be about the resurrection, why have you spent so much time claiming prophecy of an aeroplane, & so little time on trying to prove the resurrection? It is obvious you have absolutely no evidence to present of the resurrection, which is why you have diverted attention to something else.

You clearly didn't read the post. All the proof a person needs to know is there.

Verse 3 is the key to understanding Isaiah chapter 60. If you can't understand that Isaiah 60:3 you cannot understand any of the chapter.

Verses 3 is about how the gentile nations and their kings will become great nations who come to the light of the risen Messiah. This prophecy only fulfilled with what many historians would refer to as Christendom.

But there are also overlapping prophecies that also take place beginning in the first century and reaching fulfillment in the 20th century. I have all these prophecies listed in the OP. Because of the Jews disobedience to God after all the miracles done in the sight of all Israel, God told Moses that a time will come when He will no longer put up with their disobedience and they shall be scattered from one end of the earth to the other. This was told to Moses before the Jews entered into the promised land. This scattering of the Jews from one end of the earth didn't take place until the Jews decided to kill God the Son. It wasn't long afterword and God abandoned Israel and gave them over to their enemies -- the Romans. The Romans came in and slaughtered a multitude of them and many were taken as slaves to work the mines in Egypt. This was the beginning of a prolonged plague God placed on the Jews for their constant disobedience. It didn't matter if Jesus' death was part of human restoration, or that prophecy also declared the Jews would reject and kill their Messiah. Its their act of disobedience God warn the Hebrews about through Moses. All the plagues of madness, famine etc. all came true.

But God also told Moses that He would restore His people and return them from all parts of the earth back to Israel. Again this prophecy is covered in the OP. But this return back to Israel will not happen until the prolonged curse is lifted. Meanwhile, the Gentile Christian nations are rising to power and becoming great nations. The nations that did not come to Christ became third world nations and required much charity from the Christian nations just to keep up with Christendom. Soon Christians would invent air travel (the airplane) and God would show mercy to His people after the Holocaust and return them to their homeland where Christian would show compassion to the and help rebuild their infrastructure. But these Jews would be traveling long distances by land, sea and air. To prove God's seal of Authority God blessed the works of Israel and turned it from a dry rocky desert wasteland to a lush green oasis. All this was fulfilled in 1948.

If youve studied the prophecy for years, & the best explanation you can come up with is prophecy of an aeroplane, then you are an extremely slow studier, since it is only about 2 lines! You should study something a bit more worthwhile, like how to interpret prophecy!

My knowledge of prophecy does not come from me alone but by the spirit of God Who opens my eyes to understand it. Verse 8 is about how airplanes would return the Jews back to Israel in 1948. That is what the prophecy is speaking of.

What does all this have to do with Christ' resurrection from the dead? Isaiah 1 & 2 are about mankind's redemption through Christ' resurrection. Isaiah 60:3 is about the gentile nations and kings coming to the light of Christ. And this prophecy does not include all prophecies about Christ' first coming as a man on earth. The prophecies I have listed pertain to events that happen after the resurrection and some of them reach fulfillment in the 20th century.

All of this is better referenced in the OP.

 

[FEZZILLA]

This, right here, is what "prophecy" is, someone who's "studied prophecy for years" best guess. Harold Camping, who "studied prophecy for years," got it wrong, twice.

lol

But I'm not so-and-so and neither am I getting it wrong. You are free to try and refute the interpretation if you like. A word of advice: Don't deviate from the context of the passage.

 

[HitchSlap]

But I'm not so-and-so and neither am I getting it wrong. You are free to try and refute the interpretation if you like. A word of advice: Don't deviate from the context of the passage.

I don't care about the "context of the passage." There is no such thing as "prophecy." Every time someone tries to "interpret prophecy," they've been wrong... e v e r y t i m e.

 

[HitchSlap]

All this was fulfilled in 1948.

I'm not aware of "1948" being in the book of Isaiah.

 

[klutedavid]

Seems rather obvious.

To you it seems obvious.

You said "WE have seen god".
"we", includes you.

The usage of 'we' is in the sense of mankind seeing God.

So we (mankind) have witnessed God during human history.

For example, we fought a world war in 1942 means that humanity was at war in 1942. I don't have to have been involved myself, it is just a generalization (we).

But you weren't there.

I did not need to be there as there were sufficient witnesses present during such manifestations.

So when you say "we", you really mean "they".

If you read one of these accounts of the manifestation of God, then you also have seen what they saw.

And since you weren't there, when you then say "they saw god", what you really mean is "they claim to have seen god". And you are just believing them.

That is why they wrote those accounts so that you could see what they saw. The accounts themselves are the evidence.

The apostles wrote of their time as witnesses of Jesus. They were not claiming anything rather they wrote about what they saw.

His point was rather obvious to me.

But not to me.

You don't have knowledge or evidence or proper reason.

I have abundant evidence for the existence of God.

You just have belief in ancient extra-ordinary claims that aren't supported by rational evidence.

If you claimed to have seen God then I don't know whether you have seen God or not. But if two or more people claim to have seen God, then that claim itself can be regarded as objective evidence.

Have you ever considered the idea that the spiritual realm may be the real and authentic realm. Yet, the physical realm that we exist within may be a temporary realm, a realm separated from reality itself.

 

[HitchSlap]

have seen God or not. But if two or more people claim to have seen God, then that claim itself can be regarded as objective evidence.

Nope. All you have is two people making subjective claims, not even approaching the level of evidence. Objective literally means, independently verifiable and demonstrable.

 

[klutedavid]

Nope. All you have is two people making subjective claims, not even approaching the level of evidence. Objective literally means, independently verifiable and demonstrable.

Good enough for a court of law but not for you?