“We are all fundamentally good ... the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Well, at least one of your statements is true.

And since there are God's people outside of the catholic church, the true Church is not the catholic church

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

When did the Catholic Church make up the fact that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. That's all I asked.

I have no idea when did they make it up, why don't you ask catholics who believe this, since there is nothing in the Bible that there is an ark of the new covenant, neither does it say that Mary is the Ark of the new covenant

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Why are you applying to what belongs exclusively to Christ to someone else?

what I wrote again.

 

[Valletta]

I already explained the ending of Revelation 11 and beginning of Revelation 12. No where it is written that Mary is the ark of the new covenant, that's something catholics made up

As with God being one God, three Persons, to the identity of the woman in Revelation, numerous things in the Bible are not flat out stated. Despite so many learned Catholics coming to the same conclusions as far back as the early centuries of the Catholic Church, you claim your personal interpretations are accurate while Catholic Biblical analysis is "made up." It would be more productive to try and present a Biblical analysis without resorting to such characterizations.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

As with God being one God, three Persons, to the identity of the woman in Revelation, numerous things in the Bible are not flat out stated. Despite so many learned Catholics coming to the same conclusions as far back as the early centuries of the Catholic Church, you claim your personal interpretations are accurate while Catholic Biblical analysis is "made up." It would be more productive to try and present a Biblical analysis without resorting to such characterizations.

Scripture is interpreted with Scripture.
Notice how identincal this verse is with Genesis 37:9

Rev 12 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars

Genesis 37:9 Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.
It's Israel.

The woman will also flight into wilderness for 1,260 days. Did Mary flight into wilderness for 1,260 days? No

But Israel will flight into wilderness for 1,260 days (42 months, 3 and half years). This is the second half of the great tribulation when the Beast (the Antichrist) will set an image of himself up in the temple that will be built in Jerusalem. This is the abomination that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14. When the Beast does this, he breaks the peace pact he had made with Israel, and the nation has to flee to safety. This escape of the Jews is pictured as the woman fleeing into the wilderness.

Revelation 12:12-17 speaks of how the devil will make war against Israel, trying to destroy her. The devil never made a war against Mary.

 

[RileyG]

Catholics keep saying salvation can be lost, and that we have to add deeds.
Catholics pray to 'Mary' and 'Saints' even though prayer belongs exclusively to God alone.
Catholics keep calling the pope 'holy father' even though the title belongs to God alone. Even the Lord tells us so in Matthew 23 'Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.'

#1. See John 6:66. Salvation ABSOLUTELY can be lost.

#2. Do you ask other believers to pray for you? We are just asking those in heaven to pray for us before the throne of God. They are alive in Christ, not dead.

#3. They are SPIRITUAL Fathers. Even Paul called himself a father through the Gospel (1 Corinthians 4:15)
You are taking Matthew 23:9 out of context. Do you not call your mother's husband "dad' or "father'? What about teachers? Do you use the terms Mr. Mrs, Doctor because they all come from terms meaning master or teacher, respectively.

 

[RileyG]

Scripture is interpreted with Scripture.
Notice how identincal this verse is with Genesis 37:9

Rev 12 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars

Genesis 37:9 Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.
It's Israel.

The woman will also flight into wilderness for 1,260 days. Did Mary flight into wilderness for 1,260 days? No

But Israel will flight into wilderness for 1,260 days (42 months, 3 and half years). This is the second half of the great tribulation when the Beast (the Antichrist) will set an image of himself up in the temple that will be built in Jerusalem. This is the abomination that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14. When the Beast does this, he breaks the peace pact he had made with Israel, and the nation has to flee to safety. This escape of the Jews is pictured as the woman fleeing into the wilderness.

Revelation 12:12-17 speaks of how the devil will make war against Israel, trying to destroy her. The devil never made a war against Mary.

Did Israel gave birth to Jesus? Revelation can have multiple meanings, you know.

 

[RileyG]

As with God being one God, three Persons, to the identity of the woman in Revelation, numerous things in the Bible are not flat out stated. Despite so many learned Catholics coming to the same conclusions as far back as the early centuries of the Catholic Church, you claim your personal interpretations are accurate while Catholic Biblical analysis is "made up." It would be more productive to try and present a Biblical analysis without resorting to such characterizations.

That's why there are 60,000+ Protestant denominations. Each man (or woman) is his own "Pope" interpreting Scripture (or tradition) as they please.

 

[RileyG]

The Church of Christ is every born again Christian, that is the Church of Christ. And since there are born again genuine believers outside of the catholic church, the catholic church is not the true Church of Christ. The Church is not a building, it is as an assembly of God's people.

Catholics teach that salvation can be lost. Catholics teach that grace and faith are not enough, but you have to add deeds, which is not Biblical.
If you trust in yourself and your deeds, you do not trust in Christ alone.

Salvation is a gift from God. You cannot earn it or deserve it. The Church does not teach you have to trust in yourself for salvation. You made that up.

 

[TheWayOfHoliness]

When you observe your siblings, children, or parents, and then your neighbor, what feelings arise in your heart? Do you see "a sinner, wicked and hostile towards God and humanity, a corrupter of all that is good, holy, and pure"? Or do you perceive "a person created in the image of God, one whom Christ sought to save, one whom God loves deeply and eternally, and for whom God is willing to suffer and die"? Is it possible to hold both views? Can we acknowledge that human nature bears the image of the only good God, yet also recognize a person who rebels against God, carrying the same deceit Satan offered Eve; the belief that disobedience to God will grant godlike status, discerning good from evil, and making one's own judgments?

Pope Francis affirmed the truth that God created humankind good. At the conclusion of the creation narrative, it is declared, "God saw all that He had made, and it was very good." The Pope cannot contradict God's word; what God created was very good and remains so, which is why God redeems human beings.

And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. (Mark 10:17-18 ESV)

I'll add that Jesus isn't directly commenting on the sentiment expressed in the statement. Rather, He's prompting the man to consider who deserves to be called "good".

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Do you ask other believers to pray for you? We are just asking those in heaven to pray for us before the throne of God. They are alive in Christ, not dead.

Yes. But I am with them and they can physically hear me. Or they read my message I send to them, we communicate directly. The saints in Heaven cannot hear your prayer because they are not omnipresent nor they are omniscient, only God is.

God gave everything He had for our salvation (despite us being wicked evil), He gave Himself. If you are saved, then God carried the cross for you, He suffered for you, He was beaten up for you, He was crucified for you, He suffered wrath for your sins for you, He died for you. Why oh why would you not pray to Him directly? Has He not done enough for you? He sent His Spirit so He can be always with us, so we can talk to Him wherever we are.

One of the reason Jesus came was that through Him we can enter the Holy of Hollies. When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with human hands. In a sense, the veil was symbolic of Christ Himself as the only way to the Father. This is indicated by the fact that the high priest had to enter the Holy of Holies through the veil. Now Christ is our superior High Priest, and as believers in His finished work, we partake of His better priesthood. We can now enter the Holy of Holies through Him. Hebrews 10:19-20 says, “We have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body.” Here we see the image of Jesus’ flesh being torn for us just as He was tearing the veil for us.

Christ is the only mediator between man and God. Why won't you pray directly to Him, when He sits by the right hand of His Father? Jesus promised us that when we pray in His name, the Father will hear our prayers. So tell me why to pray to anyone else?

I even heard some catholics say that Mary softens Jesus' heart? Really? After all that Jesus done on the cross for you, His heart is not soft enough? Because there is no greater love than what God done on the cross. And you telling me His heart is not soft enough? Seriously?

See John 6:66. Salvation ABSOLUTELY can be lost.

That verse absolutely does not mean that salvation can be lost. These followers tasted God's grace, but they did not respond in faith, and they rejected Him.

Do you know what Christ done on the cross? Either He atoned for your sins or He has not. If He did, then there is no condemnation on you, you passed God's judgement in Christ, because Christ was without sin, therefore the penalty of death was not valid, and He defeated death. When Christ was crucified, He said 'it is finished' or in Greek 'tetelestai' which means paid for. Christ on the cross fully paid for every believer. If you are in Christ, then there is no sin for you.

God cannot judge His people in any way because His people have already been judged in Jesus. When Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ. So tell me how can you lose your salvation when Jesus done all of this?

By saying that salvation can be lost, you are saying Jesus' sacrifice was not perfect, that it was not enough. But we know Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, and He is enough! What more could He have done on the cross for you?

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. - Christ said He will lose none, so how can you lose your salvation if He said He will lose no one?

In Ephesians 1:13 the Bible says that “when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. - Are you telling me you or anyone else can break this seal? It is through the Holy Spirit and His teachings and guiding power that we are sealed and confirmed until the day of redemption, complete and free from the corruption of sin and the grave. Because we have the seal of the Spirit in our hearts, we can live joyfully, confident of our sure place in a future that holds unimaginable glories.

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Nothing can separate you from the love of God, how can you then lose your salvation? If you could lose your salvation, then this verse is false, but we know that's impossible.

You are taking Matthew 23:9 out of context. Do you not call your mother's husband "dad' or "father'? What about teachers? Do you use the terms Mr. Mrs, Doctor because they all come from terms meaning master or teacher, respectively.

But the Lord is not talking about physical parents. The title Holy Father belongs to God alone, as only He is Holy.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Did Israel gave birth to Jesus? Revelation can have multiple meanings, you know.

While it is true that Mary gave birth to Jesus, it is also true that Jesus, the son of David from the tribe of Judah, came from Israel. In a sense, Israel gave birth—or brought forth—Christ Jesus. Israel, often pictured as a mother giving birth for example Isaiah 26:17-18

Why do you keep ignoring Genesis 37:9? Does in not fit your narrative? Genesis 37:9 'Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, "Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me." Do you see how identical this verse is to Genesis 12:1?

If this is Mary...is Mary clothed in the sun? Does she have the moon under her feet? Does she have a crown with 12 stars? You only concentrate on the woman giving birth while you ignoring everything else. But we cannot do that. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel, because the woman is Israel.

 

[David Lamb]

When did the Catholic Church make it up? Your answers display your ignorance of Christ.

It's not necessary to know when the Roman Catholic church introduced the term "Ark of the New Covenant" to know that the term is found nowhere in the bible.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Salvation is a gift from God. You cannot earn it or deserve it. The Church does not teach you have to trust in yourself for salvation. You made that up.

So why does the catholic church teach faith + deeds? Why don't they teach grace alone? Why do they teach that salvation can be lost, can you add anything to the cross of Christ? Because by saying that salvation can be lost, you are saying that Christ's sacrifice was not enough.

 

[concretecamper]

It's not necessary to know when the Roman Catholic church introduced the term "Ark of the New Covenant" to know that the term is found nowhere in the bible.

Sure it is. It goes to knowledge of history and the development of His Church. Its up to you to care to know about Christ and His Church.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sure it is. It goes to knowledge of history and the development of His Church. Its up to you to care to know about Christ and His Church.

Ark of the Covenant is found in scripture. It is used in these passages and many more.

Numbers 10:33, Numbers 14:44, Deuteronomy 10:8, Deuteronomy 31:9, Deuteronomy 31:25, Deuteronomy 31:26, Joshua 3:3, Joshua 3:6, Joshua 3:8, Joshua 3:11, Joshua 3:14, Joshua 3:17, Joshua 4:7, Joshua 4:9, Joshua 4:18, Joshua 6:6, Joshua 6:8, Joshua 8:33, Judges 20:27, 1Samuel 4:3, 1Samuel 4:4, 1Samuel 4:5, 2Samuel 15:24, 1Kings 3:15, 1Kings 6:19, 1Kings 8:1, 1Kings 8:6, 1Chronicles 15:25, 1Chronicles 15:26, 1Chronicles 15:28​

Blessed Mary is revered as the ark of the covenant, representing the new covenant because she is the mother of Jesus, the Lamb of God, whose blood signifies this new covenant. Blessed Mary becomes the ark by carrying Christ in her womb. Christ embodies the new Law, the true Bread from Heaven, the sole Word of God, and the high priest of the new covenant. Similarly, the ark of the old covenant held the manna, the tablets of the Law, the book of the law, and Aaron's rod that budded. The direct parallels between the contents of the ark and Christ in Mary's womb are seen as more than mere coincidence.

 

[RileyG]

So why does the catholic church teach faith + deeds? Why don't they teach grace alone? Why do they teach that salvation can be lost, can you add anything to the cross of Christ? Because by saying that salvation can be lost, you are saying that Christ's sacrifice was not enough.

Nothing can be added to Christ’s sacrifice. Essentially, if you are saved by faith, you are already doing good works, those works don’t save you.

Salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin.

 

[RileyG]

While it is true that Mary gave birth to Jesus, it is also true that Jesus, the son of David from the tribe of Judah, came from Israel. In a sense, Israel gave birth—or brought forth—Christ Jesus. Israel, often pictured as a mother giving birth for example Isaiah 26:17-18

Why do you keep ignoring Genesis 37:9? Does in not fit your narrative? Genesis 37:9 'Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, "Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me." Do you see how identical this verse is to Genesis 12:1?

If this is Mary...is Mary clothed in the sun? Does she have the moon under her feet? Does she have a crown with 12 stars? You only concentrate on the woman giving birth while you ignoring everything else. But we cannot do that. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel, because the woman is Israel.

What about Genesis 3:15 or even the book of kings where the Queen was always the mother of the King? Are you ignoring those verses?

 

[RileyG]

Yes. But I am with them and they can physically hear me. Or they read my message I send to them, we communicate directly. The saints in Heaven cannot hear your prayer because they are not omnipresent nor they are omniscient, only God is.

God gave everything He had for our salvation (despite us being wicked evil), He gave Himself. If you are saved, then God carried the cross for you, He suffered for you, He was beaten up for you, He was crucified for you, He suffered wrath for your sins for you, He died for you. Why oh why would you not pray to Him directly? Has He not done enough for you? He sent His Spirit so He can be always with us, so we can talk to Him wherever we are.

One of the reason Jesus came was that through Him we can enter the Holy of Hollies. When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with human hands. In a sense, the veil was symbolic of Christ Himself as the only way to the Father. This is indicated by the fact that the high priest had to enter the Holy of Holies through the veil. Now Christ is our superior High Priest, and as believers in His finished work, we partake of His better priesthood. We can now enter the Holy of Holies through Him. Hebrews 10:19-20 says, “We have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body.” Here we see the image of Jesus’ flesh being torn for us just as He was tearing the veil for us.

Christ is the only mediator between man and God. Why won't you pray directly to Him, when He sits by the right hand of His Father? Jesus promised us that when we pray in His name, the Father will hear our prayers. So tell me why to pray to anyone else?

I even heard some catholics say that Mary softens Jesus' heart? Really? After all that Jesus done on the cross for you, His heart is not soft enough? Because there is no greater love than what God done on the cross. And you telling me His heart is not soft enough? Seriously?


That verse absolutely does not mean that salvation can be lost. These followers tasted God's grace, but they did not respond in faith, and they rejected Him.

Do you know what Christ done on the cross? Either He atoned for your sins or He has not. If He did, then there is no condemnation on you, you passed God's judgement in Christ, because Christ was without sin, therefore the penalty of death was not valid, and He defeated death. When Christ was crucified, He said 'it is finished' or in Greek 'tetelestai' which means paid for. Christ on the cross fully paid for every believer. If you are in Christ, then there is no sin for you.

God cannot judge His people in any way because His people have already been judged in Jesus. When Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ. So tell me how can you lose your salvation when Jesus done all of this?

By saying that salvation can be lost, you are saying Jesus' sacrifice was not perfect, that it was not enough. But we know Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, and He is enough! What more could He have done on the cross for you?

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. - Christ said He will lose none, so how can you lose your salvation if He said He will lose no one?

In Ephesians 1:13 the Bible says that “when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. - Are you telling me you or anyone else can break this seal? It is through the Holy Spirit and His teachings and guiding power that we are sealed and confirmed until the day of redemption, complete and free from the corruption of sin and the grave. Because we have the seal of the Spirit in our hearts, we can live joyfully, confident of our sure place in a future that holds unimaginable glories.

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Nothing can separate you from the love of God, how can you then lose your salvation? If you could lose your salvation, then this verse is false, but we know that's impossible.


But the Lord is not talking about physical parents. The title Holy Father belongs to God alone, as only He is Holy.

No, we never said Mary can soften Jesus heart since Jesus is perfect. I do pray to God directly all the time, but I can get the help all I need from the saints.

Someone can reject God and lose their salvation.

You are taking these verses out of context.

Regarding holy father, what about Paul’s epistles where he addressed the faithful as holy ones? Are you ignoring those verses too?

 

[concretecamper]

Mary...is Mary clothed in the sun? Does she have the moon under her feet? Does she have a crown with 12 stars?

Sound an awful like Our Lady of Guadalupe