“We are all fundamentally good ... the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis

[Gregory Thompson]

This putting Mary in the place of God looks really off topic.

So the pope is giving a humanist subterfuge speech about the hearts of people being fundamentally good, which is why bad things happen to increasing degrees.

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 3: NASB
20 And He *came home, and the crowd *gathered again, to such an extent that they could not even eat a meal. 21 And when His own people heard about this, they came out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”


31 Then His mother and His brothers *came, and while standing outside they sent word to Him, calling for Him. 32 And a crowd was sitting around Him, and they *said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You.” 33 Answering them, He *said, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” 34 And looking around at those who were sitting around Him, He *said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!

It doesn't say Mary thought he had lost his senses, the Greek text makes no such claim.

"came out to take custody of Him"
saying "He has lost his senses" NASB/

NKJV - 21 But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.”
KJV -- 21 they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

It takes grammatical imagination to portray Mary as seeing Jesus as crazy, it's obvious to most they came to get him away.

To "take custody of Him" according to the text.

The text links this to the fact that he was not stopping to take time to eat.

The usage of the Greek word by the Angel Gabriel in the past participle shows a past event, and it is used as a title. She is one who was full of grace from her beginning.

Stephen "full of grace and power" -- an even stronger term -
It did not mean "born sinless", "born without a sinful nature" , "born without the need of being saved from sin"

As with so much in the Bible, not everything is spelled out. The Bible does not state that there is one God, three Persons.

One God Deut 6:4
In three persons Matt 28:19

You are changing your argument to argue for things you claim are not in the Bible - to make it on par with the claims made about Mary. In this you appear to admit that those claims are not in the Bible. But in the case you are highlighting - - it is not true the Deut 6:4 and Matt 28:19 do not provide the info that you claim is not in the Bible

But I do think you would agree at some level that much of the old prefigures the new, or what is hidden in the old is revealed in the new, as some of the saints I mentioned realized about the Ark.

There is no "ark of the new covenant" statement in all of scripture. But we DO have the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-34. "THIS IS the covenant..."

2 Samuel 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day; and he said, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” RSVCE

Indeed - David moved the literal ark - the one with the Ten Commandments in it.

Luke 1:43 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? RSVCE

No doubt - many people have gone and met many other people during the course of world history.

Catholics maintain Jesus was Mary's savior and was sinless.

So say we all. Jesus was the Savior of mankind (including Mary) and Jesus was sinless.

As to Mary being sinless, the Angel Gabriel uses "kecharitomene" as a title, showing she was imbued in the past with a full and eternal grace.

Same term used for Stephen in the book of Acts "full of grace and power" and does not make Stepehen born without a sinful nature, born sinless.

It is not true that all babies are born without a sinful nature.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

The Hail Holy Queen aka Salve Regina is a beautiful prayer that can be prayed by anyone.

God protect me from praying such prayer.

'our Life, our Sweetness, and our Hope.' Life? Don't you know your life comes from God who created you and sustains you. Mary has no bearing on your life at all. Hope? The only hope is in God alone.

Is this one of the prayers from the book The Glories of Mary by Liguori?

God, of course, we worship ALONE.

This prayer, Salve Regina worships Mary.

Mary is not the mother of God. God has no mother. Mary is the mother of Jesus' humanity.
God chose Mary to be the mother of Jesus out of His grace. He could have chosen any other woman He wanted to, but in His divine love He chose Mary. This love is agape, or the love that is undeserved. He choses who He loves and shows them love, even though they do not deserve it.

 

[RileyG]

God protect me from praying such prayer.

'our Life, our Sweetness, and our Hope.' Life? Don't you know your life comes from God who created you and sustains you. Mary has no bearing on your life at all. Hope? The only hope is in God alone.

Is this one of the prayers from the book The Glories of Mary by Liguori?


This prayer, Salve Regina worships Mary.

Mary is not the mother of God. God has no mother. Mary is the mother of Jesus' humanity.
God chose Mary to be the mother of Jesus out of His grace. He could have chosen any other woman He wanted to, but in His divine love He chose Mary. This love is agape, or the love that is undeserved. He choses who He loves and shows them love, even though they do not deserve it.

Stop with the goading please.

No one worships Mary.

You are completely misinformed.

To say Mary isn’t the Mother of God is heresy. Jesus IS God, therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

If you deny that, then you are not a Christian. Period.

 

[RileyG]

This putting Mary in the place of God looks really off topic.

So the pope is giving a humanist subterfuge speech about the hearts of people being fundamentally good, which is why bad things happen to increasing degrees.

No one is putting Mary in place of God.

Good grief.

 

[Valletta]

Mary is not the mother of God.

Catholics believe the Bible to be inerrant. Elizabeth clearly asks:

"43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

Luke 1 39-45 39 In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and she entered the house of Zechari′ah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be[a] a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” RSVCE

"Our Lord" is a reference to God, and thus Elizabeth identifies Mary as the mother of God.

 

[Valletta]

Mark 3: NASB
20 And He *came home, and the crowd *gathered again, to such an extent that they could not even eat a meal. 21 And when His own people heard about this, they came out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”


31 Then His mother and His brothers *came, and while standing outside they sent word to Him, calling for Him. 32 And a crowd was sitting around Him, and they *said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You.” 33 Answering them, He *said, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” 34 And looking around at those who were sitting around Him, He *said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!

"came out to take custody of Him"
saying "He has lost his senses" NASB/

NKJV - 21 But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.”
KJV -- 21 they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.


To "take custody of Him" according to the text.

The text links this to the fact that he was not stopping to take time to eat.

Stephen "full of grace and power" -- an even stronger term -
It did not mean "born sinless", "born without a sinful nature" , "born without the need of being saved from sin"

One God Deut 6:4
In three persons Matt 28:19

You are changing your argument to argue for things you claim are not in the Bible - to make it on par with the claims made about Mary. In this you appear to admit that those claims are not in the Bible. But in the case you are highlighting - - it is not true the Deut 6:4 and Matt 28:19 do not provide the info that you claim is not in the Bible

There is no "ark of the new covenant" statement in all of scripture. But we DO have the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-34. "THIS IS the covenant..."

Indeed - David moved the literal ark - the one with the Ten Commandments in it.

No doubt - many people have gone and met many other people during the course of world history.


So say we all. Jesus was the Savior of mankind (including Mary) and Jesus was sinless.

Same term used for Stephen in the book of Acts "full of grace and power" and does not make Stepehen born without a sinful nature, born sinless.

It is not true that all babies are born without a sinful nature.

Mark 3: NASB
20 And He *came home, and the crowd *gathered again, to such an extent that they could not even eat a meal. 21 And when His own people heard about this, they came out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”


31 Then His mother and His brothers *came, and while standing outside they sent word to Him, calling for Him. 32 And a crowd was sitting around Him, and they *said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You.” 33 Answering them, He *said, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” 34 And looking around at those who were sitting around Him, He *said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!

"came out to take custody of Him"
saying "He has lost his senses" NASB/

NKJV - 21 But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.”
KJV -- 21 they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.


To "take custody of Him" according to the text.

The text links this to the fact that he was not stopping to take time to eat.

Stephen "full of grace and power" -- an even stronger term -
It did not mean "born sinless", "born without a sinful nature" , "born without the need of being saved from sin"

One God Deut 6:4
In three persons Matt 28:19

You are changing your argument to argue for things you claim are not in the Bible - to make it on par with the claims made about Mary. In this you appear to admit that those claims are not in the Bible. But in the case you are highlighting - - it is not true the Deut 6:4 and Matt 28:19 do not provide the info that you claim is not in the Bible

There is no "ark of the new covenant" statement in all of scripture. But we DO have the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-34. "THIS IS the covenant..."

Indeed - David moved the literal ark - the one with the Ten Commandments in it.

No doubt - many people have gone and met many other people during the course of world history.


So say we all. Jesus was the Savior of mankind (including Mary) and Jesus was sinless.

Same term used for Stephen in the book of Acts "full of grace and power" and does not make Stepehen born without a sinful nature, born sinless.

It is not true that all babies are born without a sinful nature.

Never does it say Mary thought Jesus lost His senses. The text is ambiguous as to what Mary may or may not believe. It's not there, trying to make it so is wishful thinking. Let me bring your attention to the what I previously said about the GREEK word that is used by the Angel Gabriel as a title in describing Mary. There certainly are other Greek words that are variants of "charis," which means "grace." The usage is UNIQUE to Mary, it mean a previous imbued and everlasting grace. There is no word for word equivalent in the English language. As to my example, you apparently missed my point. There are many many things in the Bible that you can put together but are not specifically stated. As to one God three persons, you say, "three persons," "Matt 28:19." You omitted the actual passage. What does it say?

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. RSVCE

Now it is Catholic Sacred Tradition that there is one God, Three Persons, but the Bible does not specifically state it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No one is putting Mary in place of God.

Good grief.

That's why people hail Mary being full of grace instead of Jesus, right?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

View attachment 348436

“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis.

But what does God’s word say?

“… None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18 ESV)

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)

If man and his heart is fundamentally good, why do we need a saviour?
For what purpose did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, die?
Who should we believe, the Pope, or God?

As it is written, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

But there is good news...

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was crucified and died for our sins, taking upon Himself the punishment we deserve. He was then buried and raised back to life on the third day, in accordance with the scriptures. He now sits at His Father’s right hand and is awaiting His Father’s instruction to return. This was all recorded in the scriptures contained in the Holy Bible, which is the word of God and is able to save our souls.

Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart in rebellion. Whoever conceals his sins will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy and forgiveness. If you repent and believe in the gospel, putting your faith in Jesus Christ, you will inherit salvation, which leads to everlasting life. With this salvation comes a necessary spiritual rebirth; God will give you a new heart and His Holy Spirit, which will give you wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, put His Laws on your heart and mind, guide you into all the truth, help you, and comfort you. By the blood of Jesus, sanctifying you and cleansing you of all unrighteousness—conforming you to His image.

So the pope is giving a humanist subterfuge speech about the hearts of people being fundamentally good, which is why bad things happen to increasing degrees.

The reason bad things happen is because: humans.

So the bible asks a very important question:
My brothers, can a fig tree grow olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

 

[Valletta]

That's why people hail Mary being full of grace instead of Jesus, right?

No, not "instead of." Why would you say "instead of?" People have a right to believe what the Bible says and repeat it if they want.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No, not "instead of." Why would you say "instead of?" People have a right to believe what the Bible says and repeat it if they want.

I am reminded of Luke 11:27-28. However, the only right written of in the new testament is to become children of God.

 

[armchairscholar]

“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis.

But what does God’s word say?

“… None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18 ESV)

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)

If man and his heart is fundamentally good, why do we need a saviour?
For what purpose did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, die?
Who should we believe, the Pope, or God?

As it is written, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

But there is good news...

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was crucified and died for our sins, taking upon Himself the punishment we deserve. He was then buried and raised back to life on the third day, in accordance with the scriptures. He now sits at His Father’s right hand and is awaiting His Father’s instruction to return. This was all recorded in the scriptures contained in the Holy Bible, which is the word of God and is able to save our souls.

Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart in rebellion. Whoever conceals his sins will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy and forgiveness. If you repent and believe in the gospel, putting your faith in Jesus Christ, you will inherit salvation, which leads to everlasting life. With this salvation comes a necessary spiritual rebirth; God will give you a new heart and His Holy Spirit, which will give you wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, put His Laws on your heart and mind, guide you into all the truth, help you, and comfort you. By the blood of Jesus, sanctifying you and cleansing you of all unrighteousness—conforming you to His image.

Yes, we are all sinners, and we all fall short of the glory of God. But that does not mean that we are beyond redemption. In fact, it is precisely because of our sinful nature that we need a savior, and that is why Jesus Christ came to save us.

He’s not saying that we are good on our own, or that we can save ourselves. No, we are utterly dependent on God's mercy and grace. He is saying that even in the midst of our sinfulness, there is a spark of goodness within us that can be fanned into a flame with the help of God's grace.

And that is the good news of the gospel: that we are not beyond hope, that we can be transformed and redeemed by the power of God's love. So let us not be afraid to acknowledge our sinfulness, but let us also not forget the goodness that lies within us, waiting to be set free.

In the words of St. Augustine, "God created us without us, but he will not save us without us." Let us cooperate with God's grace, and let us allow Him to transform us into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[Valletta]

I am reminded of Luke 11:27-28. However, the only right written of in the new testament is to become children of God.

Indeed, as blessed as Mary was for being the mother of God, Luke shows us she was particularly blessed by God by doing God's will and never sinning.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT


This thread is closed for staff review.​

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

DUE TO MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

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