“Volunteer Hunting” Deceivers preying on church members.

[HouseCat71]

I have to ask folks...have you noticed a lot more posers coming into your church for the express purpose of hunting for volunteers to do their dirty work? What’s your opinion on helping these people who are pretending to be Christians? Do you think we should help them anyway as it sets a good example...even if you’re being used, not paid for your work or lied to?

We’ve had a lot of them come through our little country church. They come, give a sob story, pretend to be in need and really aren’t...then they get volunteers to do their dirty jobs, (plowing snow, help move or paint...some kind of job they’re too cheap to pay for themselves) then, they disappear from the church. Some even stay to see how much undeserving help they CAN get. I’m not talking about that poor, grouchy widow who needs her lawn mowed. I’m talking about that rich, widow who has more money than Trump but comes in seeing who she can scam so she can save up for a trip to Hawaii.

I hate to say this, but most of them are stingy, well-off, elderly people too. They’re living on a budget but instead of living within their means and refraining from unnecessary spending, they’re looking for people to come and do services that they simply don’t want to pay for or do themselves. There is no distinguishing between needs and wants with these kind of people. They think that their quality of life is a need and not a want.

I’ve caught two couples in their scams. One lady was saying her husband was in the hospital and then went on and on about how she needed her living room painted and had no help. We drive by their house and he’s in his privately owned pond, pulling cat tails out. Looked mighty sick. *sarcasm*. Every time she needs something done, she’ll come to church and give a big lie of a sob story then start asking for volunteers. Otherwise, she doesn’t come. All she has to do is stop getting her weekly massages and manicures and she’d save up enough money to have someone come paint her house.

A lot of stuff like that happens and our pastor and his wife fall for it all the time. You can’t tell them anything either. The wife thinks we’re stingy jerks for testing people and getting to know them before we help them. You can tell her anything and she’ll believe it, she is so naive and driven by emotions.

I personally don’t think any seed is planted, or your testimony is being remembered when you help. The horrible pervert of a guy who came in and scammed my husband into helping him finish house (and then disappeared after he was done and didn’t pay him) isn’t thinking, “gee, that guy was a great Christian. I should mend my ways and be like him.” He’s sitting back wondering what church he’s going to target next when he needs some landscaping help cause we’re all gullible schmucks who can easily be guilt tripped into volunteering.

So...what are your thoughts on this? Have you seen this in your church? What, if anything does leadership do about it? Do you just leave it in God’s hands or do you warn people to be more vigilant and discerning? THe Apostle Paul commands us to be discerning and test everything. I think that should include people who aren’t who they say they are. I know God isn’t going to bless those people who are dishonest and steal from others, but I hate to see other members get their time and money stolen by scammers who don’t deserve it.

 

[Paidiske]

I haven't personally seen it, no. I have come across someone who told me he intended to target the local LDS community in this way (I understand they often do this kind of voluntary work on request).

I think you probably need to mind your boundaries and let others mind theirs, but I know that's sometimes easier said than done!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have to ask folks...have you noticed a lot more posers coming into your church for the express purpose of hunting for volunteers to do their dirty work? What’s your opinion on helping these people who are pretending to be Christians? Do you think we should help them anyway as it sets a good example...even if you’re being used, not paid for your work or lied to?

We’ve had a lot of them come through our little country church. They come, give a sob story, pretend to be in need and really aren’t...then they get volunteers to do their dirty jobs, (plowing snow, help move or paint...some kind of job they’re too cheap to pay for themselves) then, they disappear from the church. Some even stay to see how much undeserving help they CAN get. I’m not talking about that poor, grouchy widow who needs her lawn mowed. I’m talking about that rich, widow who has more money than Trump but comes in seeing who she can scam so she can save up for a trip to Hawaii.

I hate to say this, but most of them are stingy, well-off, elderly people too. They’re living on a budget but instead of living within their means and refraining from unnecessary spending, they’re looking for people to come and do services that they simply don’t want to pay for or do themselves. There is no distinguishing between needs and wants with these kind of people. They think that their quality of life is a need and not a want.

I’ve caught two couples in their scams. One lady was saying her husband was in the hospital and then went on and on about how she needed her living room painted and had no help. We drive by their house and he’s in his privately owned pond, pulling cat tails out. Looked mighty sick. *sarcasm*. Every time she needs something done, she’ll come to church and give a big lie of a sob story then start asking for volunteers. Otherwise, she doesn’t come. All she has to do is stop getting her weekly massages and manicures and she’d save up enough money to have someone come paint her house.

A lot of stuff like that happens and our pastor and his wife fall for it all the time. You can’t tell them anything either. The wife thinks we’re stingy jerks for testing people and getting to know them before we help them. You can tell her anything and she’ll believe it, she is so naive and driven by emotions.

I personally don’t think any seed is planted, or your testimony is being remembered when you help. The horrible pervert of a guy who came in and scammed my husband into helping him finish house (and then disappeared after he was done and didn’t pay him) isn’t thinking, “gee, that guy was a great Christian. I should mend my ways and be like him.” He’s sitting back wondering what church he’s going to target next when he needs some landscaping help cause we’re all gullible schmucks who can easily be guilt tripped into volunteering.

So...what are your thoughts on this? Have you seen this in your church? What, if anything does leadership do about it? Do you just leave it in God’s hands or do you warn people to be more vigilant and discerning? THe Apostle Paul commands us to be discerning and test everything. I think that should include people who aren’t who they say they are. I know God isn’t going to bless those people who are dishonest and steal from others, but I hate to see other members get their time and money stolen by scammers who don’t deserve it.

We have had people come to our church with sob stories asking for money for groceries and petrol, saying that they have to get back to another city but don't have the petrol to get there. Our policy is to take them down to the service station and fill their car up with petrol, or to the supermarket and buy their groceries. That way, we are giving them what they are asking for, instead of just money. If they are scamming us to use the money we give them for drugs or alcohol, their purpose is thwarted. If they are reluctant to do what we suggest, then we say we don't give charity, and refer them to the Salvation Army.

But it is someone in the neighborhood who wants a job done, like lawns mowed, gardens weeded, house painted, etc, then if we have the manpower to do it, we will do it, and do it as unto the Lord. Then it is the Lord's prerogative to deal with them if they are scamming us. If we do it ten times, and one of those ones received Christ and attend church, then our purpose is fulfilled. Many people come to Christ because of the deeds of kindness that Christians do for them.

I think the best thing is to ask the Lord, "Do you want me to do this for these people?" If He says "Yes", then you don't have to have a judgmental attitude toward the people, because you are doing it for them in obedience to the Lord - casting your bread upon many waters, as it were.

 

[Tolworth John]

I have to ask folks...have you noticed a lot more posers coming into your church for the express purpose of hunting for volunteers to do their dirty work? What’s your opinion on helping these people who are pretending to be Christians? Do you think we should help them anyway as it sets a good example...even if you’re being used, not paid for your work or lied to?

We’ve had a lot of them come through our little country church. They come, give a sob story, pretend to be in need and really aren’t...then they get volunteers to do their dirty jobs, (plowing snow, help move or paint...some kind of job they’re too cheap to pay for themselves) then, they disappear from the church. Some even stay to see how much undeserving help they CAN get. I’m not talking about that poor, grouchy widow who needs her lawn mowed. I’m talking about that rich, widow who has more money than Trump but comes in seeing who she can scam so she can save up for a trip to Hawaii.

I hate to say this, but most of them are stingy, well-off, elderly people too. They’re living on a budget but instead of living within their means and refraining from unnecessary spending, they’re looking for people to come and do services that they simply don’t want to pay for or do themselves. There is no distinguishing between needs and wants with these kind of people. They think that their quality of life is a need and not a want.

I’ve caught two couples in their scams. One lady was saying her husband was in the hospital and then went on and on about how she needed her living room painted and had no help. We drive by their house and he’s in his privately owned pond, pulling cat tails out. Looked mighty sick. *sarcasm*. Every time she needs something done, she’ll come to church and give a big lie of a sob story then start asking for volunteers. Otherwise, she doesn’t come. All she has to do is stop getting her weekly massages and manicures and she’d save up enough money to have someone come paint her house.

A lot of stuff like that happens and our pastor and his wife fall for it all the time. You can’t tell them anything either. The wife thinks we’re stingy jerks for testing people and getting to know them before we help them. You can tell her anything and she’ll believe it, she is so naive and driven by emotions.

I personally don’t think any seed is planted, or your testimony is being remembered when you help. The horrible pervert of a guy who came in and scammed my husband into helping him finish house (and then disappeared after he was done and didn’t pay him) isn’t thinking, “gee, that guy was a great Christian. I should mend my ways and be like him.” He’s sitting back wondering what church he’s going to target next when he needs some landscaping help cause we’re all gullible schmucks who can easily be guilt tripped into volunteering.

So...what are your thoughts on this? Have you seen this in your church? What, if anything does leadership do about it? Do you just leave it in God’s hands or do you warn people to be more vigilant and discerning? THe Apostle Paul commands us to be discerning and test everything. I think that should include people who aren’t who they say they are. I know God isn’t going to bless those people who are dishonest and steal from others, but I hate to see other members get their time and money stolen by scammers who don’t deserve it.

I think a basic question is why don't you regularly attend church?
If not interested in attending, ask questions or talk abouit lifestyle and income.

Most churches have a few people who will do odd jobs for less than the rate of pay, put them in touch.

Of course if the minister is going for it to volunter let him. Do ensure that he does volunteer and turns up, give him a lift.

 

[public hermit]

I say help everyone who asks, unless it is obviously a bad situation. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's good to remember that people don't have to meet some set of conditions in order to be loved by us. They just have to exist. They don't have to be moral, or be Christian, or even be in need (necessarily). The only qualification that people have to meet in order to be loved by us is that they exist.

Having said all that, we can be discerning. I have had to tell people, "Sorry bud, that's all I'm going to do. You're clearly taking advantage of my kindness." I have no qualms about that kind of thing. I have been in need, so I know what it is like. I have also been taken advantage of, so I know what that looks like.

I wouldn't underestimate the witness of helping others. The only certain evidence we can provide of the reality of our faith is our love for others. They will know us by our love, and such. If I am going to err, I always want to err on the side of love. I would rather be taken advantage of, than to neglect to love someone the Lord has sent my way.

 

[HouseCat71]

I think a basic question is why don't you regularly attend church?
If not interested in attending, ask questions or talk abouit lifestyle and income.

Most churches have a few people who will do odd jobs for less than the rate of pay, put them in touch.

Of course if the minister is going for it to volunter let him. Do ensure that he does volunteer and turns up, give him a lift.

My husband has started recommending contractors he knows. That deflects a lot of scammers. Now, he’s started charging double what a contractor would ask because he is disabled and having terrible trouble with his shoulders. THey don’t bother him so much anymore...it’s the other people who I hate to see get taken for their time/money.

And yes, Paidiske...it is very hard to mind my boundaries. Probably what I should do. Thanks for the response. Always telling myself, Let Jesus handle it! *sigh*. I hate theft...and I see this as theft of people’s time. Time is so precious and....ok, I’ll stop rambling.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Have you seen this in your church? What, if anything does leadership do about it? Do you just leave it in God’s hands or do you warn people to be more vigilant and discerning?

Yes. I've personally been scammed myself several times. They claimed to be financially desperate, yet did not appreciate my gifts because it apparently wasn't good enough for them. I've even seen some of those gifts abandoned and thrown away. It was a slap in the face since at the time, I was in a tough situation myself, so it's not like I could have afforded to throw away money.

We all have our tastes, but I would be cautious of someone who claims to be financially desperate, yet act like a spoiled child by being overly picky or wasteful with the free things they receive.

The leadership should definitely be more vigilant and discerning, but I don't know if they should warn the people since that might create a culture of distrust where no one wants to give.

 

[ChicanaRose]

What are some other signs that someone may be trying to scam you?

 

[bèlla]

I think its unwise unless the effort is spearheaded by the church. I wouldn’t enter a stranger’s home on the premise of providing service for someone I know nothing about. And I’d make no exception for a woman.

Years ago I went for a walk on a winter morning with a friend. We spent time in a quiet playground. A child arrived unattended. I looked at her with alarm expecting her parents to follow. But it never happened. She was three.

We stayed another half hour. She told me her father was in the car. When we prepared to leave I became concerned. I was going to walk her to the car. But my friend stopped me.

She said it was probably a scam and the child was bait to lure unsuspecting women. I walked across the street and called the police at a hotel. Then spoke to the doorman and told him what happened. He agreed with my friend and spoke to the manager. They could see her and went to check things out.

The police arrived and we went into a store to alleviate the chance of being followed. If I was alone I would have taken her to the car. Who knows the result of doing so.

Things aren’t always as they appear. Don’t take chances with your safety. Ask the Lord first.

 

[ChicanaRose]

She was three.

Scammers can use children as baits. That happened to me a few times, where the children were sent to give sob speeches to me, or the parents try to buy my sympathy by talking about their children.

But as much as I suffered financial losses (which remains unreimbursed to this day), I think I should be thankful that my life remained safe.

That is a very scary story, I'm so glad you didn't go with the three year old to the car.

 

[bèlla]

That is a very scary story, I'm so glad you didn't go with the three year old to the car.

Very much so. I was shaken up. It meant he was watching and targeted us.

My daughter heard a similar story from a surviver at a sex trafficking conference. The speaker was invited to a party. Her parents said no. But she snuck out and went anyway.

She was 14 and the party was a setup. The hosts held her captive for two years as a sex slave. She was kept in a building around the corner from her home. She eventually escaped but the damage was severe.

This happens more frequently than you’d think. I wouldn’t send any children to these events or women. If they need help its better for a group of men to go instead.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Very much so. I was shaken up. It meant he was watching and targeted us.

My daughter heard a similar story from a surviver at a sex trafficking conference. The speaker was invited to a party. Her parents said no. But she snuck out and went anyway.

She was 14 and the party was a setup. The hosts held her captive for two years as a sex slave. She was kept in a building around the corner from her home. She eventually escaped but the damage was severe.

This happens more frequently than you’d think. I wouldn’t send any children to these events or women. If they need help its better for a group of men to go instead.

I'm literally getting goose bumps reading this...

If we are going to help a stranger, we really need to volunteer in groups (and preferably in co-ed groups), where lots of eyes are watching.

 

[bèlla]

I'm literally getting goose bumps reading this...

If we are going to help a stranger, we really need to volunteer in groups (and preferably in co-ed groups), where lots of eyes are watching.

The event we went to focused on local problems. The organizers felt most people assumed this was something that happened overseas. But they informed us that was not the case and shared ways to spot it in our community.

We needn’t be afraid but prudence is a must. Let the Lord guide you and pray for wisdom.

 

[Noxot]

I don't think that blind charity is better than love and personal relationships. At its worst charity becomes the horrors of communism. Personalism is closer to the kingdom of heaven than is giving unto some unknown stranger.

The kingdom might start off with helping strangers but one of the main points of salvation is the destruction of alienation.

 

[JCFantasy23]

We had one family like that - they wouldn't come to church, they would come with their children to ask for money or try to get stuff after services or during special events. The congregation helped them in various ways but it didn't actually end up helping them - the mother was mentally ill and the father kept getting arrested over the past 20 years since coming over here. I believe he is in prison again now, he was up for it the last time I saw the family unfortunately. The kids had to have social services called on them by various sources, including my mother. She would let the kids stay with her a few days but the parents became too scary to continue. People would buy the children clothes so they could go to school, and a window AC Unit for their room (they do not have AC in florida), but the parents would pawn the AC and washer they were given, and then the clothes would disappear and they would keep bringing the children back, or to the grocery store parking lots, dressed in the old and dirty clothing. People gave them some money but we've eventually figured out they need more help than we can give in a different way. They seem to have wandered, so I am not sure where the mother and children are now.

 

[ChristopherHays]

Anywhere people try to help there will be people taking advantage of it. I’d actually be proud that your church is the kind of church that still tries to help people. My former church spent all their money and resources improving the church, not the community. I remember a homeless man walking several miles to get Christian counseling for his depression. Our church had several available counselors but turned him down because he wasn’t a regular member.
Try to help people as best you can and respectfully call out anyone who’s taking advantage, but don’t let a few bad apples ruin your charitable desires.

 

[Endeavourer]

My former church spent all their money and resources improving the church, not the community.

So true of many!

In my church we have limited resources so individuals help by giving people rides or money for the bus, or buying them groceries. However, we stay in touch with each other on what the other is providing to ensure we aren't squandering our resources on scams. When we encounter someone truly in need, individuals in our group willingly step up sacrificially even though they don't have much themselves. Our rented building is shared with another mission minded neighborhood outreach group and isn't much.

 

[HouseCat71]

Yes...if they are truly in need, you know them, or things don’t seem fishy, help them, by all means. I don’t mean to get everyone paranoid, but be aware that there are posers in the church. Use a little wisdom and think about what they’re asking; if it’s a true need or they just want help doing something they don’t want to do. Because they don’t care if you’re disabled, broke yourself, or what...they’re just there to use you.

Recently, we’ve had this couple who started coming for a few months now. The man found out my husband was a mechanic. Doesn’t care that he’s disabled and it’s fall, so we have firewood to get in, repairs to make and lots of other things mountain folk do. It’s very hard cause we both hurt physically and the people always bugging you don’t care. They don’t respect you at all. This guy keeps texting my husband every other day about something he needs. Car repairs that he should know how to do...then, his toilet broke and my husband straight up told him he was NOT changing someone else’s toilet. That is GROSS. THEN, he got his wife to text ME hoping that I would make my husband do it! I thought that was so ill-mannered. I didn’t respond at all. Both her and her husband are data miners. (If you don’t know what that is...it is someone who gathers data about you so they can plan how to use you. They asked him questions about our income; how much we made as retired military and so forth...my husband said, “enough”. Things like that.). So, the guy asked someone else in the church who sent him a link to YouTube on how to do it. The guy eventually changed his own toilet.

One thing I am so thankful for is my mother telling me....”Figure it out”. Maybe I shouldn’t expect this so much of other people...but doggone it, sometimes it works.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Both her and her husband are data miners. (If you don’t know what that is...it is someone who gathers data about you so they can plan how to use you. They asked him questions about our income; how much we made as retired military and so forth...my husband said, “enough”. Things like that.)

I didn't know the term, "data miners" but that makes perfect sense.

I've found people who use others to be very demanding. If you want something for free, you have to learn to be on the helping person's time. But these people can't seem to wait and have expected not only financial, but also time sacrifice from the helping person, demanding her to drop everything she needs to do and come sooner to their rescue.

I think that an overly demanding attitude (as if that person is paying a lot of money) to receive free stuff, and a lack of gratitude (if it's not done perfectly to their liking, they will complain) are some of the yellow flags.