“Magicians” Prove A Spiritual World Exists

[The Cadet]

"I'm the guy who's gonna pretend to kick your *** as I pretend to do harry potter stuff."

I love this guy already.

 

[SnowyMacie]

You have a bad feeling about it -- not really hard to explain at all.

These people make their living making you see not what you want to see, but what they want you to see... What Teller once referred to as "the unwilling suspension of disbelief..." It's safe to assume that the famous ones are very good at it.



Usually smoke and mirrors, a deck of marked cards, and a "magic box" with a mirror inside and a trap door in the bottom.



Did he now?

Harry Houndini claimed he was born on Halloween in Appleton, Wisconsin. None of that's true -- just theatrics.The truth is that Houdini's real name was Erik Weisz, and he was born in Budapest, Hungary -- most likely he told the Appleton story to ward off post-WWI xenophobia. And forget about Halloween... he was born on March 24. But Halloween is so much more appropriate for a magician, don't you think?

He also once claimed that after cutting a hole in the ice of the frozen Detroit River and jumping in while handcuffed, he lost sight of the hole, and was guided to it at the last minute by the spirit of his dead mother. A fascinating story, except that the day he did this -- November 27, 1906 -- the Detroit River was not frozen. When the Detroit Free Press called him out on this little detail, Houdini changed the story to the 2nd of December and claimed it happened in Pittsburgh -- and this time, not only was he handcuffed, but also chained and locked in a trunk. The spirit of his mother rescuing him, however, remained unchanged.

Isn't it possible that a magician -- a person who makes their living dealing in misdirection and illusion -- might be pulling your leg?

Exactly. The movie, The Prestige, even though it's fiction, touches a lot on this. The entire concept of magic, in this context, depends on our belief in real magic.

 

[Swan7]

Well, compared to most magicians who don't reveal anything at all.

Why do you instantly believe someone when he says that he is in league with spiritis, while you doubt people who repeatedly show you that they are only using sleight of hand and elaborate mechanisms?

Ever heard of the phrase confirmation bias?

Because I can't see the point in lying about that. He even told a story about how he met this spirit as a small child - and was frightened for years because he couldn't figure out how to get rid of it. Seems to me he just embraced it over the years.
No, I have never heard of that.

You have a bad feeling about it -- not really hard to explain at all.

These people make their living making you see not what you want to see, but what they want you to see... What Teller once referred to as "the unwilling suspension of disbelief..." It's safe to assume that the famous ones are very good at it.



Usually smoke and mirrors, a deck of marked cards, and a "magic box" with a mirror inside and a trap door in the bottom.



Did he now?

Harry Houndini claimed he was born on Halloween in Appleton, Wisconsin. None of that's true -- just theatrics.The truth is that Houdini's real name was Erik Weisz, and he was born in Budapest, Hungary -- most likely he told the Appleton story to ward off post-WWI xenophobia. And forget about Halloween... he was born on March 24. But Halloween is so much more appropriate for a magician, don't you think?

He also once claimed that after cutting a hole in the ice of the frozen Detroit River and jumping in while handcuffed, he lost sight of the hole, and was guided to it at the last minute by the spirit of his dead mother. A fascinating story, except that the day he did this -- November 27, 1906 -- the Detroit River was not frozen. When the Detroit Free Press called him out on this little detail, Houdini changed the story to the 2nd of December and claimed it happened in Pittsburgh -- and this time, not only was he handcuffed, but also chained and locked in a trunk. The spirit of his mother rescuing him, however, remained unchanged.

Isn't it possible that a magician -- a person who makes their living dealing in misdirection and illusion -- might be pulling your leg?

Hmm... even Obama lied about his birth, but I'm not talking about lying about such things as that. However, I do think it would lessen the curiosity of some acts (that these magicians are "partnered" up with spirits) - that makes sense to me. Lying for fame? I can see that.

What about the guy after WWII? He had swords go through him and yet no blood or agonizing pain? That stuff makes me wonder.

Magic tricks can be really impressive. They can leave you wondering, "How in the world did they do that?!" That's the whole point.

Oh, of course! There are lots of tricks that make me say that. But it's as I stated above, there are just some things (not a lot) that make me think otherwise because of what I also believe in. I'm not saying it's one way or the other, that's quite extreme, and I know there are lots of tricks out there that are indeed illusion.

 

[The Cadet]

Because I can't see the point in lying about that. He even told a story about how he met this spirit as a small child - and was frightened for years because he couldn't figure out how to get rid of it. Seems to me he just embraced it over the years.

And did you verify that this story was the case? The point in lying about this is to sell tickets. After all, a magician who can bedazzle you with sleight of hand is interesting; a magician who speaks to spirits and does real magic is an international phenomenon people travel for miles to see. The point in lying about that is to make more money.

What about the guy after WWII? He had swords go through him and yet no blood or agonizing pain? That stuff makes me wonder.

It's called a fistula - a channel of scar tissue formed through your body. What he did takes intense mental fortitude, but not supernatural powers, just dedication and repeated self-mutilation. You can see two things on his performance that makes this explanation sensible:
1. He only ever inserts the sword in specific directions and angles. Even when we consider missing major organs, that still leaves a lot of room, but we only ever see one of a handful of angles.
2. You see scars all over his body, which may seem to indicate failed previous attempts, where trying to form the fistula failed - because it ran into a vital organ or a nerve cluster.

But it's as I stated above, there are just some things (not a lot) that make me think otherwise because of what I also believe in. I'm not saying it's one way or the other, that's quite extreme, and I know there are lots of tricks out there that are indeed illusion.

Okay, so how do you tell the difference? You agree that some tricks are illusions, and some are not. How do you tell?

 

[Blondepudding]

Admittedly, David Blane is an impressive illusionist.
However, if magicians tricks proves there is a spiritual world what does the magic fails like those of Criss Angel from time to time prove?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Doesn't "I can't figure it out, therefore spirits" indicate a certain lack of humility?

 

[SnowyMacie]

Because I can't see the point in lying about that. He even told a story about how he met this spirit as a small child - and was frightened for years because he couldn't figure out how to get rid of it. Seems to me he just embraced it over the years.

It's their act, their character. Like any good character, they need a good backstory, especially one that fits in with their persona. The idea they are in communication with spirits is further to help the suspension of disbelief in their audience. It's the same trick that many psychics and fortune tells use as well, telling you they have always been somehow apart or in contact with the spiritual realm. There is a real spiritual realm and real "magic" in the world, but performance magicians are not using it other than people's personal beliefs in it.

 

[[serious]]

And did you verify that this story was the case? The point in lying about this is to sell tickets. After all, a magician who can bedazzle you with sleight of hand is interesting; a magician who speaks to spirits and does real magic is an international phenomenon people travel for miles to see. The point in lying about that is to make more money.



It's called a fistula - a channel of scar tissue formed through your body. What he did takes intense mental fortitude, but not supernatural powers, just dedication and repeated self-mutilation. You can see two things on his performance that makes this explanation sensible:
1. He only ever inserts the sword in specific directions and angles. Even when we consider missing major organs, that still leaves a lot of room, but we only ever see one of a handful of angles.
2. You see scars all over his body, which may seem to indicate failed previous attempts, where trying to form the fistula failed - because it ran into a vital organ or a nerve cluster.



Okay, so how do you tell the difference? You agree that some tricks are illusions, and some are not. How do you tell?

There are other methods of the piercing the body trick that, while less dramatic, don't require you to ever get stabbed. there is a needle through the arm trick which can be done by using rubber cement and folding the skin on itself. Add a little makeup and you can take it from a stage trick to a close up trick.

 

[[serious]]

Admittedly, David Blane is an impressive illusionist.
However, if magicians tricks proves there is a spiritual world what does the magic fails like those of Criss Angel from time to time prove?

Use of plants is common in these TV ones. Anytime I hear a magician say "please verify we've never met" I assume a plant.

 

[Blondepudding]

Use of plants is common in these TV ones. Anytime I hear a magician say "please verify we've never met" I assume a plant.

I've caught a few of the TV specials that feature Criss Angel. The people that he picks from a crowd are just too animated and it even feels like they're in on it watching how they react and all.

I caught this one show and the last one I saw of his actually wherein he claimed to bring a corpse back to life.
That was messed up. At the end of the show they posted a picture of the corpse as he looked in life and with his name under it. It was very brief but still.
That was just a little off even for Angel. And the girl that helped him was not a very good actor.
I went to YouTube to find this and now that I look at the actor woman again I wonder if she's the levitating woman in the other video here? Just a different hairstyle.

 

[[serious]]

I've caught a few of the TV specials that feature Criss Angel. The people that he picks from a crowd are just too animated and it even feels like they're in on it watching how they react and all.

I caught this one show and the last one I saw of his actually wherein he claimed to bring a corpse back to life.
That was messed up. At the end of the show they posted a picture of the corpse as he looked in life and with his name under it. It was very brief but still.
That was just a little off even for Angel. And the girl that helped him was not a very good actor.
I went to YouTube to find this and now that I look at the actor woman again I wonder if she's the levitating woman in the other video here? Just a different hairstyle.

He's gotten a fair bit of flack for use of excessive and unnecessary plants. For example, people in the background that are there only to make it look like the trick works from every angle.

Come to think of it, pretty much every magician who takes themselves way to seriously comes across as more of a tool bag than an amazing magician. One exception is Shin Lim, who has a beautiful performance. (he's in the OP's video with a plastic bag card switch which, I believe, involves slipping the card behind the bag rather than in it along with some incredibly good slight of hand.)

EDIT: actually, watching it again, I think he went another way with it.

 

[[serious]]

Shin Lim does have some of the most beautiful vanishes though.

 

[loveofourlord]

All mine are done with a standard deck. I wouldn't mind picking up a trick deck or two though. That does look like a good one though.

More in the theme of the thread, who here can explain this trick? I'm pretty sure I've got the whole thing cracked. There's only one minor element I'm not positive of.

Funny I just read the solution to the normal variant of this trick because of this topic and now find it here :>

 

[The Cadet]

Hm. See, I get the bit with the deck of cards (it's some kind of disappearing ink), but I don't get how he did the woman's name or the wrestling thing.

 

[[serious]]

P

Hm. See, I get the bit with the deck of cards (it's some kind of disappearing ink), but I don't get how he did the woman's name or the wrestling thing.

Pm me if you want a spoiler on it