“I can deliberately sin because we are under grace” - a prevalent new-age doctrine.

[TheWayOfHoliness]

Today, a very prevalent doctrine that I have seen spreading throughout churches and in online forums is: “Since we are under grace, we are no longer required to come to genuine repentance of our sins, nor are we required to keep the commandments of God”. I would like to stress that this is a doctrine of devils being parroted by individuals who are not of genuine faith and/or have a limited knowledge of scripture or who, through the love of sin, have deceived themselves and are now deceiving others.

Paul addressed this false doctrine: “What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.” (Romans 6:15-18 ESV)

John also discussed this at length: “Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.” (1 John 3:4-10 ESV)

Finally, our Lord Jesus gave many warnings: “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27 ESV)

Those of us who are saved by our faith in Christ are called to be disciples of Jesus Christ. We are to recognise Christ as Lord and make him the centre of our lives. We are to be walking by every word that comes from the mouth of God. We are to vehemently seek God’s Word and Will. We are to keep a close relationship with God through constant prayer. We are to fear God and keep His commandments, repenting of our sins. We are to resist the temptations that the devil puts before us, to the glory of God. We are to love God with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our mind. We are to love others as we love ourselves. We are to exude love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. We are to give willingly, cheerfully, and freely. We are to be bold as lions. We are to be ready to forsake everything that we have, including, if necessary, our very family, for the sake of God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Repentance takes many forms, some of which do not play lipservice to busybodies, which wastes energy.

The Matthew 7 verse is the last statement of the sermon on the mount. Yet whenever it is quoted, it is appended to whatever teachings that are being pushed.

Furthermore, without faith it is impossible to please God.

Finally, Romans Chapter 2 does illustrate God's mandate for this age, do take heed that pointing out other people's sins doesn't excuse you.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

One of the things which genuinely disturbs me more recently about grace is how two people can be guilty of something and one is forgiven whereas the other is not. In the case of the non-Christian all his sins prior to conversion are forgiven but the Christian by sinning after knowing the Christian standard is held in greater contempt. This might be despite both knowing what they are or were doing is wrong. Lately it is something I have been struggling with in regards to one particular sin and I cannot easily reconcile myself to it.

 

[HarleyER]

Today, a very prevalent doctrine that I have seen spreading throughout churches and in online forums is: “Since we are under grace, we are no longer required to come to genuine repentance of our sins, nor are we required to keep the commandments of God”. I would like to stress that this is a doctrine of devils being parroted by individuals who are not of genuine faith and/or have a limited knowledge of scripture or who, through the love of sin, have deceived themselves and are now deceiving others.

Paul addressed this false doctrine: “What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.” (Romans 6:15-18 ESV)

John also discussed this at length: “Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.” (1 John 3:4-10 ESV)

Finally, our Lord Jesus gave many warnings: “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27 ESV)

Those of us who are saved by our faith in Christ are called to be disciples of Jesus Christ. We are to recognise Christ as Lord and make him the centre of our lives. We are to be walking by every word that comes from the mouth of God. We are to vehemently seek God’s Word and Will. We are to keep a close relationship with God through constant prayer. We are to fear God and keep His commandments, repenting of our sins. We are to resist the temptations that the devil puts before us, to the glory of God. We are to love God with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our mind. We are to love others as we love ourselves. We are to exude love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. We are to give willingly, cheerfully, and freely. We are to be bold as lions. We are to be ready to forsake everything that we have, including, if necessary, our very family, for the sake of God.

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The real question is WHY would one want to continue to practice sin after what God has done for them? It is a key question that tells you if you have genuine faith.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The real question is WHY would one want to continue to practice sin after what God has done for them? It is a key question that tells you if you have genuine faith.

I would suggest the reason why people want to sin is that they genuinely desire to do the sin. Then when they see others having been forgiven so easily for said sin it can provoke wanting to do it even more so.

 

[HarleyER]

I would suggest the reason why people want to sin is that they genuinely desire to do the sin. Then when they see others having been forgiven so easily for said sin it can provoke wanting to do it even more so.

I suspect the real reason is that too few people really fear God. They look at Him as a pal to hang out with rather than the Holy righteous God of the universe.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I suspect the real reason is that too few people really fear God. They look at Him as a pal to hang out with rather than the Holy righteous God of the universe.

Part of it is the lack of a fear of God, in that those who are free from this type of sin fear God and prize him above anything else. Yet an absence of something doesn't explain which draws people to their sin inherently and I would say it's just desire. The desire to do things and when certain Christians see other Christians having been forgiven for a greater amount of sin it can put in them the thought that it's not so bad, that they can be forgiven for not even doing as much as that other person is. Grace in this way is really unequal and some people, no matter the amount of sin they get, simply get more of it and this can breed resentment.

Telling people they just need to fear God won't address the underlying issues.

 

[HarleyER]

Part of it is the lack of a fear of God, in that those who are free from this type of sin fear God and prize him above anything else. Yet an absence of something doesn't explain which draws people to their sin inherently and I would say it's just desire. The desire to do things and when certain Christians see other Christians having been forgiven for a greater amount of sin it can put in them the thought that it's not so bad, that they can be forgiven for not even doing as much as that other person is. Grace in this way is really unequal and some people, no matter the amount of sin they get, simply get more of it and this can breed resentment.

Telling people they just need to fear God won't address the underlying issues.

I don't disagree with your assessment. I find a lot of truth in your comments.

I don't mean fear in the sense that it is often used today as being scared or afraid of something. Rather I'm using it in the sense of reverence or awe of God. You can't tell people to respect or reverence God. They must come to this desire on their own. When they see other Christians committing sin, they think they can do it because they can be forgiven. What they miss is thinking that God isn't around to see what they are doing. If they thought that way, would they commit the sin? Most likely not.

 

[Jim Campbell]

I would suggest the reason why people want to sin is that they genuinely desire to do the sin. Then when they see others having been forgiven so easily for said sin it can provoke wanting to do it even more so.

Seeing people sinning all around you ought not intelligently or morally or legally justify first-hand the sin in operation. I would think the average Joe seeing a deadly mugging would be initially regarding that activity NOT as being possibly the right way to make a living since the witness would probably not resist being so treated himself. That teaching you might be referencing is based on the false teaching of limitless of holy God towards all sins since sinners don't know what God said is sin. All unrepentant sinners will be judged and condemned.
I was raised partly by a grandmother who sought for me to sabotage her German and Japanese renters of her apartments due to her disgust of WW2 atrocities. I was caught between her hatreds and their benevolences. All of those people blessed me with kindness and monetary support. I learned to be "open" to the better and best of anyone I should be in position to serve. Kind of tricky by our American standards.

Sin is a like a fowler's web meant to entrap all who become entangled in it. I remember finding a web set to trap flying game birds It was a bad day to find a quail caught in a web stretched between trees. I released her, that day thinking I might should be a state wildlife officer some day. I knew the illegal game offenders, but realized years later that if I was to die for a good cause, it should be for Jesus, not for a bird.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Seeing people sinning all around you ought not intelligently or morally or legally justify first-hand the sin in operation. I would think the average Joe seeing a deadly mugging would be initially regarding that activity NOT as being possibly the right way to make a living since the witness would probably not resist being so treated himself. That teaching you might be referencing is based on the false teaching of limitless of holy God towards all sins since sinners don't know what God said is sin. All unrepentant sinners will be judged and condemned.
I was raised partly by a grandmother who sought for me to sabotage her German and Japanese renters of her apartments due to her disgust of WW2 atrocities. I was caught between her hatreds and their benevolences. All of those people blessed me with kindness and monetary support. I learned to be "open" to the better and best of anyone I should be in position to serve. Kind of tricky by our American standards.

Sin is a like a fowler's web meant to entrap all who become entangled in it. I remember finding a web set to trap flying game birds It was a bad day to find a quail caught in a web stretched between trees. I released her, that day thinking I might should be a state wildlife officer some day. I knew the illegal game offenders, but realized years later that if I was to die for a good cause, it should be for Jesus, not for a bird.

Few find the sins you've mentioned here appealing. Instead it's sins relating to things like sex or wealth that cause the sort of feeling I am describing.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Few find the sins you've mentioned here appealing. Instead it's sins relating to things like sex or wealth that cause the sort of feeling I am describing

Today I see a huge sin that is very appealing to many folks, like hatred of people, hating Jews because they are Jews, hatred of Christians, of wealthy, and of political candidates beyond their their policy issues. Sin enticement can be more contagious than deadly diseases, like men and women in Teen Challenge commonly admit drug addiction and selling drugs becomes a formidable abomination due to passing sentences of lifelong failure and death onto others.

 

[stevevw]

Today, a very prevalent doctrine that I have seen spreading throughout churches and in online forums is: “Since we are under grace, we are no longer required to come to genuine repentance of our sins, nor are we required to keep the commandments of God”. I would like to stress that this is a doctrine of devils being parroted by individuals who are not of genuine faith and/or have a limited knowledge of scripture or who, through the love of sin, have deceived themselves and are now deceiving others.

Paul addressed this false doctrine: “What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.” (Romans 6:15-18 ESV)

John also discussed this at length: “Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.” (1 John 3:4-10 ESV)

Finally, our Lord Jesus gave many warnings: “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27 ESV)

Those of us who are saved by our faith in Christ are called to be disciples of Jesus Christ. We are to recognise Christ as Lord and make him the centre of our lives. We are to be walking by every word that comes from the mouth of God. We are to vehemently seek God’s Word and Will. We are to keep a close relationship with God through constant prayer. We are to fear God and keep His commandments, repenting of our sins. We are to resist the temptations that the devil puts before us, to the glory of God. We are to love God with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our mind. We are to love others as we love ourselves. We are to exude love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. We are to give willingly, cheerfully, and freely. We are to be bold as lions. We are to be ready to forsake everything that we have, including, if necessary, our very family, for the sake of God.

Theres also the parable about the slave misbehaving while the masters away and Romans 2:2, Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

There seems a lot of emphasis on telling the early church and Christians to be on the watch for sin even though they were saved. Like it was a battle and Christians needed protection and the tools to understand our weak sinful flesh natures and not to rest on our laurels.

Its a battle between our human flesh nature and Gods spirit. As our sinful nature is our human nature people can think its ok to hold onto some of that nature as its natural. But being born of Gods spirit is letting god of our human nature and being transformed by Gods spirit. Because it is from this that our desires come and the rationalisations that justify holding onto them.

I think its easy for some to rationalise that we are not perfect and thus compromise Gods standards which is to be rightous and not just good. I also think that as time has gone the world has become more of a temptation. There are a lot more distractions and alternative ideologies offering the truth.

That is why I think if Christians truely followed Christs teachings today they should completely stand out to whats on offer. Enough so to be noticed as reflecting Christ as did happen in the early church or become a thorn in the side of secular society which has become so anti Christ and the Woke church who are the new Pharisees enforcing the letter of the Woke law.

There should be some great movement or revival happening. Lives being changed and it being noticed even by secular society. Being without fault, nothing that reflects badly on Christ but rather stands above what is happening at the moment. Rather something that doesn't conform and is in conflict with secular societies idea of what is good.

So perhaps this is a sign that most of the so called Christian churches are not so Christlike afterall. If a church is liked by current anti God secular society then they are not being Christlike enough and are conforming too much with this world. Thats the simple measure.

 

[Stephen3141]

When Paul uses the language "under grace", I think that he is talking
about EVERYONE now living in the age of the New Covenant.

Those who will be condemned at the final judgment, are also "under grace"
in this sense of Paul's language. (Think of Paul's language as an analogy to
"living in the Information Age".)

This annuls the misconception that somehow, being a Christian, means that one
can engage in behavior that will get one condemned at the final judgment.

The serious sins that the ancient Jews recognized, are almost all repeated
and affirmed to be serious sins in the New Testament. And the New
Testament is clear that continuing to commit these sins, will exclude one
from entering the kingdom of God.

I think that your question does not understand what the phrase "under grace" means.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Today, a very prevalent doctrine that I have seen spreading throughout churches and in online forums is: “Since we are under grace, we are no longer required to come to genuine repentance of our sins, nor are we required to keep the commandments of God”. I would like to stress that this is a doctrine of devils being parroted by individuals who are not of genuine faith and/or have a limited knowledge of scripture or who, through the love of sin, have deceived themselves and are now deceiving others.

Paul addressed this false doctrine: “What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.” (Romans 6:15-18 ESV)

John also discussed this at length: “Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.” (1 John 3:4-10 ESV)

Finally, our Lord Jesus gave many warnings: “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27 ESV)

Those of us who are saved by our faith in Christ are called to be disciples of Jesus Christ. We are to recognise Christ as Lord and make him the centre of our lives. We are to be walking by every word that comes from the mouth of God. We are to vehemently seek God’s Word and Will. We are to keep a close relationship with God through constant prayer. We are to fear God and keep His commandments, repenting of our sins. We are to resist the temptations that the devil puts before us, to the glory of God. We are to love God with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our mind. We are to love others as we love ourselves. We are to exude love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. We are to give willingly, cheerfully, and freely. We are to be bold as lions. We are to be ready to forsake everything that we have, including, if necessary, our very family, for the sake of God.

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I'm curious if you can link anybody teaching this. I've heard they do, but have not witnessed it being taught, myself. Some people even go so far as to claim that this or that doctrinal system teaches it, but when I look, it is only what they consider the teaching of that doctrinal system to logically reduce to —not that the doctrinal system actually asserts such a thing.

 

[TheWayOfHoliness]

When Paul uses the language "under grace", I think that he is talking
about EVERYONE now living in the age of the New Covenant.

Those who will be condemned at the final judgment, are also "under grace"
in this sense of Paul's language. (Think of Paul's language as an analogy to
"living in the Information Age".)

This annuls the misconception that somehow, being a Christian, means that one
can engage in behavior that will get one condemned at the final judgment.

The serious sins that the ancient Jews recognized, are almost all repeated
and affirmed to be serious sins in the New Testament. And the New
Testament is clear that continuing to commit these sins, will exclude one
from entering the kingdom of God.

I think that your question does not understand what the phrase "under grace" means.

Which question?