“Golden Pens on Silver Platters”

[Bobber]

However, I wouldn't agree that alone is reason to impeach him and I don't think anyone has made that statement,......

I'm glad you don't but I hardly think you can make that claim for everyone.

What he really shouldn't have done was try to use those funds to force the President of Ukraine to smear Joe Biden.

But is that something you have to believe? Can't you can choose rather to believe that he was concerned about the way and manner that American tax money is released not out of some personal vindictive reason to get Biden. One reason Trump was elected because the people wanted a business person....one who would look at how even the smallest amounts of money are spent. He's a money detail person thus his wanting to see Nato nations paying more. So we've got two options....believe the best of people or rather the worst.

 

[Bobber]

Even the partisan Washington Post covered the criticism of Pelosi ...
Nancy Pelosi gave out souvenir pens after sending impeachment to the Senate

“This final display neatly distilled the House’s entire process into one perfect visual,” McConnell said of the black pens emblazoned in gold with Pelosi’s signature, that “literally came in on silver platters.”

“It was a transparently partisan performance from beginning to end,” he said.​

Well if Trump wins the next election and IF the Republicans take back the House maybe some of the recipients of her pen might send it back to her stating, "I thought I'd send you back that stinking pen. It's got your name on it. I think you should have it."

 

[The_Barmecide]

Good grief people can talk about both issues and all issues.

Not in 2020 America.

In regard to the GAO you might want to consider Obama broke those type of regulations about eight times not to mention other Presidents a well.

OH NO! WhataboutObama? Well, let's have him called in TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS.

 

[The_Barmecide]

Can't you can choose rather to believe that he was concerned about the way and manner that American tax money is released not out of some personal vindictive reason to get Biden.

This is a very good question and one that lies at the heart of the matter. It is really the ONLY defense anyone in the Trump administration has. So right after this all came to light a reporter asked Trump what OTHER corruption investigations he was focused on other than Biden in Ukraine and Trump could think of NONE. Zero-zip-nada.

Of course Trump couldn't find Ukraine on a map with 15 geography professors helping him, but he does know who his "threats" are. And given his literal lifetime of corruption there is little reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

It could be. But then maybe a bank robber was just asking to make a withdrawal from his own account when he said "give me all the money" and it was cold out so he was wearing a ski mask. And it's an open carry state and he was holding his gun. Could be. Probably isn't.

 

[Hank77]

But is that something you have to believe? Can't you can choose rather to believe that he was concerned about the way and manner that American tax money is released not out of some personal vindictive reason to get Biden....believe the best of people or rather the worst.

I have to believe what the evidence shows me, it's not a matter of choice.

 

[TLK Valentine]

But is that something you have to believe? Can't you can choose rather to believe that he was concerned about the way and manner that American tax money is released not out of some personal vindictive reason to get Biden.

Given Donald's observable pattern of behavior, one could certainly choose to believe that, but such a choice would require either a right-leaning political bias, an incentive from Donald's administration, or a sharp blow to the cranium.

One reason Trump was elected because the people wanted a business person....one who would look at how even the smallest amounts of money are spent.

No, they wanted a "business person" because they were under the impression that he was a successful one.

He's a money detail person thus his wanting to see Nato nations paying more. So we've got two options....believe the best of people or rather the worst.

Did you choose to believe the best of the women who accused him of sexual assault?

 

[Bobber]

This is a very good question and one that lies at the heart of the matter. It is really the ONLY defense anyone in the Trump administration has. So right after this all came to light a reporter asked Trump what OTHER corruption investigations he was focused on other than Biden in Ukraine and Trump could think of NONE. Zero-zip-nada.

Did he really need to? It was a new President in Ukraine and the place was very well known for being a place of corruption (politically speaking) What's so difficult to accept that he wanted the new leader to weed out corruption before giving the money, or at least to have it emphasized that he would?

And given his literal lifetime of corruption....

Innocent until proven guilty. Shouldn't we remember the American way?

there is little reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

When you're talking about removing the President from office YOU MUST give him the benefit of the doubt. Sorry but it MUST be innocent until proven guilty and not take away the will of the American people (albiet through the Electoral College) by speculative notions.

It could be.

Therefore the case should be dismissed. There's a difference between THINKING someone is guilty as compared to KNOWING someone is. The benefit of the doubt MUST go to the accused. If not the enlightened society has ventured off into the shadows.

 

[The_Barmecide]

Did he really need to?

If his claim is true that he only cares about corruption qua corruption then indeed he DID need to have something else as well.

Innocent until proven guilty. Shouldn't we remember the American way?

"Lock her up". Oh wait, it's oK for Conservatives to urinate on the "American Way" isn't it?

When you're talking about removing the President from office YOU MUST give him the benefit of the doubt.

Do we have to give ourselves all lobotomies so we can just take his word for it?

Sorry but it MUST be innocent until proven guilty and not take away the will of the American people (albiet through the Electoral College) by speculative notions.

"Lock her up".

Therefore the case should be dismissed.

Given what is coming out these past 2 days I'd say there's so much smoke we will be seeing a real BIG fire.

There's a difference between THINKING someone is guilty as compared to KNOWING someone is. The benefit of the doubt MUST go to the accused. If not the enlightened society has ventured off into the shadows.

"Lock her up".

(Just trying to keep Conservatives grounded)

 

[Bobber]

"Lock her up". Oh wait, it's oK for Conservatives to urinate on the "American Way" isn't it?

If you're talking about Clinton who ever said she shouldn't have her day in court?

(Just trying to keep Conservatives grounded)

Everybody need to be grounded. No one is above the law. So perhaps we're in agreement?

 

[The_Barmecide]

If you're talking about Clinton who ever said she shouldn't have her day in court?

Oh, so you didn't see any of the Trump rallies ever even on TV? OK.

Everybody need to be grounded. No one is above the law. So perhaps we're in agreement?

Except that isn't what we are told about Trump. HIs people are REPEATEDLY told to violate legal subpoenas without any real issue. Those Trump associates who DO get their day in court usually wind up in prison.

 

[Bobber]

Oh, so you didn't see any of the Trump rallies ever even on TV? OK.

So you don't think if you asked by far the majority of individuals saying this that they wouldn't say that person has a right to defend themselves in a trial? Sure there would always be a nut which would say no but we're talking about probably 99 % of people.

 

[The_Barmecide]

So you don't think if you asked by far the majority of individuals saying this that they wouldn't say that person has a right to defend themselves in a trial? Sure there would always be a nut which would say no but we're talking about probably 99 % of people.

Wow. that's so deep. You're right!

 

[TLK Valentine]

Did he really need to?

Clearly not, since his goal was to smear Biden by implicating his son in a non-existent scandal.

 

[Bobber]

Clearly not, since his goal was to smear Biden by implicating his son in a non-existent scandal.

Or maybe clear that's merely speculative notion that such is the case?

 

[Kentonio]

Or maybe clear that's merely speculative notion that such is the case?

As Trump seems incapable of producing any actual evidence, and instead smears them using pure hearsay, it would seem very obviously the case.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Or maybe clear that's merely speculative notion that such is the case?

Well, as there was no wrongdoing by the Bidens, and therefore no scandal, as well as no attempt by Donald to investigate anyone but the Bidens, what other logical inference can be made?

 

[Bobber]

Well, as there was no wrongdoing by the Bidens,......

And many others would say falling into creating a huge appearance of a conflict of interests IS WRONG. Let me ask you. Tell me the date that Biden was made the point man for the Ukraine file and then tell me the date that Biden's son was appointed on the board of this Ukrainian gas company?

 

[TLK Valentine]

And many others would say falling into creating a huge appearance of a conflict of interests IS WRONG.

As Donald himself has done here... Not for the first or the last time.

...but nobody dares question him, now do they?

Let me ask you. Tell me the date that Biden was made the point man for the Ukraine file and then tell me the date that Biden's son was appointed on the board of this Ukrainian gas company?

Let me ask you:

Innocent until proven guilty. Shouldn't we remember the American way?

Was this little soundbyte ever meant to be anything but an excuse?

 

[Hank77]

And many others would say falling into creating a huge appearance of a conflict of interests IS WRONG. Let me ask you. Tell me the date that Biden was made the point man for the Ukraine file and then tell me the date that Biden's son was appointed on the board of this Ukrainian gas company?

Do you know the answer to that question?

 

[Albion]

The Republican party ELECTED an obnoxious and distasteful game.

Maybe THAT's the slip-up that has engendered such animosity. No, it wasn't the Republican Party that elected the president; it was the American people.

So if we want to discuss why free elections are supposedly obnoxious and distasteful, then at least we'll have the issue properly defined.