“Depart From Me I Never Knew You" - Who is Jesus talking to?

[Na Nach Oi!]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?
Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians?
In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

 

[John Hyperspace]

I believe this is referring to those who are under the law, and, not under grace. Being under the law is what causes a person to become "lawless" as they cannot keep the law (James 2:10-11), and are "under the curse" (which is why Jesus also used the phrase "you cursed": Matthew 25:41; Galatians 3:10) and by being "under the law" they are accused by Moses as transgressors (John 5:45, James 2:9), have become the children of Hagar who are to be cast out and receive no inheritance with the "son of the freewoman" (Galatians 4:24; Galatians 4:30-31, Galatians 5:1) which freedom from the curse and wrath of the law (Romans 4:15) is only found in coming out from under the law to being under grace (Romans 3:19, Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:23, Galatians 4:4-5, Galatians 5:18, Romans 8:14). Thus Paul admonishes: Galatians 3:3, Galatians 5:4, 2 Corinthians 3:17 and this is why Christ "never knew them" because they removed out of being under grace, back into the spiritual Egypt of law-keeping, which is to draw back into the perdition, and bondage of corruption and death.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?
Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians?
In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

You seem to be searching for the appropriate label by which to identify them. The Lord is saying it is not the label. It is, rather, the taking of the correct name but the incorrect spirit, the incorrect heart, the incorrect actions that causes their condemnation. Your own chosen religious label is not enough to save you. How many cups of water have you given in Jesus' name? How many have you clothed? How many have you fed? How many have you visited in prison? How many refugees are you participating in taking in?

 

[Winken]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?
Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians?
In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

This is end-times scripture. It concerns those who come before God without having proclaimed Jesus as their Messiah/Savior.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?
Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians?
In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

I have never thought of them being a single group, but they may be.

I think it's telling that they thought that their "doing" was what made them worthy.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The key is found in, "only those who do the will of my Father". Jesus gave the answer to what the will of the Father was in John 6:40 and John 6:29

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The actual wording of the passage explains the meaning.

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?

The 'you' doesn't refer to any 'group'; Jews, pagans, Holy Rollers, Democrats, Baptists, RCC, or Frisbeetarians.

Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Just an aside to satisfy my own pet peeve. In Hebrew, the word transliterated "adon" means "lord". It can refer to a social superior (there were social levels in many parts of the world), a political superior - such as governor or king - and was used as a proper address for Almighty God. It depended on context.

By adding the suffix "i" (in Hebrew) the formation shows possession. So 'adon' is 'lord', and 'adoni' is 'my lord'. And even in Hebrew, the possessive construction didn't mean 'ownership', as in English when one says "This is MY country". End of aside.

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

No idea. However, Jesus says some will claim such.

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians? In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

Note what 'they' say: "Looky, looky; we DID all this stuff in your name for you! Now give us our reward!"

None of them claim to have believed in, relied on, obeyed, or glorified Jesus by worship or obedience. The ones Jesus rejects are those who depend on their own works for salvation.

And just to let some off the hook, it won't be any of those who pray for salvation and depend on Jesus who will be singled out for rejection in some extreme form of negative Calvinism.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

And just to let some off the hook, it won't be any of those who pray for salvation and depend on Jesus who will be singled out for rejection in some extreme form of negative Calvinism.

Anyone who claims Calvin and the above is lying. They are no Calvinist. Not even a hyper Calvinists believe what you've stated above, and I've spoken with a few of them.

 

[faroukfarouk]

i don't think it is anything so pointed . but since all these things listed that they "Do', are done by the authority of his name . it is easily possible for some one to do them in his name while living their life in a state of continued practice of sin . So, he calls them workers of iniquity . because good works do not cancel out sin and no one born of god continues to practice sin.1 john.
but these people do just that and then they attempt to atone for it by "doing' things in his name . And he says to them -"depart from me i do not know you ,you workers of iniquity ".

-1st they do those works out of guilt for their unrepentant sin
-2nd the continue at the same time to do works of sin -they do not KNOW Jesus ,if they did, they would have ceased from the practice of sin.

You refer to John's First Epistle: this is a very searching portion of the Scriptures by which can help to discern those who walk in the light and those who do not.

 

[John Hyperspace]

i don't think it is anything so pointed . but since all these things listed that they "Do', are done by the authority of his name . it is easily possible for some one to do them in his name while living their life in a state of continued practice of sin .

True, but transgression is only imputed under the law. Only Moses accuses, and convicts as lawless/transgressors, and only them under the law can be under the curse. So them under the law will continually sin, because no man can be obedient to the law, and as such, are convicted as transgressors by the law they are under. A man not under law, but, under grace, cannot be imputed sin, as he is not under the law, and free from the condemnation of Moses.

So, he calls them workers of iniquity .

"Iniquity" as poined out in the original post is "lawless" "anomos" which a person can only be considered by breaking the law, and being under the law that is broken, to then be accuses of the law as "working lawlessness".

because good works do not cancel out sin and no one born of god continues to practice sin.1 john.

Right, only grace causes sin to not be imputed; being outside the law, and beyond the ability of Moses to accuse: John 1:17, John 5:45. But if a man thinks his "good works" sanctify or contribute to his salvation, he is fallen from grace and is placing himself back under the law, and the curse. This, again, is why Jesus said "Depart from Me, you cursed" because there is only one place where being cursed is possible: under the law which brings the curse: Galatians 3:10, Galatians 3:13

-1st they do those works out of guilt for their unrepentant sin

Whatever their reasons for doing works, they are convicted by the law, and cursed by it as transgressors. A man who repents under the law is still cursed since he will continue to break the law.

-2nd the continue at the same time to do works of sin -they do not KNOW Jesus ,if they did, they would have ceased from the practice of sin.

The only way to "cease sin" is to be under grace where you cannot be convicted of sin. If you are meaning here that it is possible for a man under the law to cease from breaking the law, I believe this is error. I know of no such a man save Jesus Christ.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Anyone who claims Calvin and the above is lying. They are no Calvinist. Not even a hyper Calvinists believe what you've stated above, and I've spoken with a few of them.

Jimmy, I put that in because I have talked with a few who were concerned the passage was a veiled reference not every Christian attains salvation.

I agree with you no person who grasps the concept of Calvin would argue this.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Jimmy, I put that in because I have talked with a few who were concerned the passage was a veiled reference not every Christian attains salvation.

I agree with you no person who grasps the concept of Calvin would argue this.

Thanks for explaining. Calvin is already so misunderstood and maligned, that I didn't want anyone to further misunderstand.

As a Calvinist, I know there are a few nutty "Calvinists" out there, and I distance myself from them.

 

[AvgJoe]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?
Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians?
In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

There were people in Jesus' day who thought they were friends of His because they knew the Law, made strict rules for themselves (and for others), and listened to His teaching. They followed Him, applauded the miracles, and liked some of what He said. But Jesus calls them “evildoers” and states, “I never knew you.”

Today there are thousands who know about Jesus—that is, they know some facts about Him, commit Bible verses to memory, and perhaps attend church regularly. But they have never allowed the facts to become their personal reality. They hold knowledge in their heads without allowing the truth to penetrate their hearts. Jesus explained the problem: “These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules" (Matthew 15:8–9; Mark 7:6).

 

[Deadworm]

So far posters have overlooked 4 factors relevant to the interpretation of Matthew 7:21-23:

(1) This text implies that Christians might be spiritually separated from Christ even though they have genuinely prophesied and have performed genuine exorcisms and other miracles.

(2) This is not the first time Jesus made such a statement:
"Then you will begin to say, "We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets." Then He will say, "I don't know where you come from; go away from me, all you evildoers (Luke 13:26-27)." Study this text and Matthew's text in context.

(3) Paul believes that we can know Christ (Philippians 3:10), but cannot know God. Rather, our hope is that God comes to know us just as the Gospels teach us to hope that Jesus comes to know us.

(a) "Anyone who loves God is known by Him (1 Corinthians 8:2)." Notice carefully what Paul does not say--that anyone who loves God knows God.

(b) "Now that you have come to know God, or rather be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits (Galatians 4:9)?"
Notice how Paul corrects himself: for him we can't come to know God; we can only hope to be known by God. Clearly Paul has in mind an intimate relational knowing, not a knowledge of facts about us.

 

[Soyeong]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?
Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians?
In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

Someone who is lawless consistently refers to someone who practices disobedience to the Mosaic law, such as someone who believes that they are under grace, so they don't need to practice obedience to the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law was given to reveal what sin is, without which we wouldn't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7), sin is defined as lawless (1 John 3:4), and those who continue to practice lawlessness have neither seen nor known him (1 John 3:6), which is consistent with Jesus saying in Matthew 7:21-23 that he never knew them. If they had known him, then they would have known that obedience to the Mosaic law is about demonstrating their love for God, their faith in Him about how they should live, and thereby building their relationship with him. However, the people in Matthew 7:21-23 didn't appeal to love, faith, or their relationship with Jesus, but rather they appealed to their own works as if they were depending on their works to earn them entry into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[St_Worm2]

Matthew 7:21 – 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who does "you" refer to? False Christians or the Jews (followers of Judaism)?
Both groups call God as "Lord"/"Kurios" or "Adonai".

Why could the "many" people prophesy in Lord's name, perform miracles, drive out demons?
Are their own doings (prophesying, performing miracles, exorcism) fake or "staged", especially from Cessationist perspective?

Are they "anomos" Christians AKA non-Messianic Christians?
In the original Greek manuscript, "evildoers" here are translated from the word "anomos"?

Hi CJ, those who NEVER knew Jesus were NEVER Christians, obviously.

This passage also makes it clear that making a "profession" of faith ("Lord, Lord") does not necessarily mean that someone has actually come to faith in Christ .. even if they (or others) believe they have (surely some of the folks mentioned in v22 must have looked like "super-Christians" to some of those who knew them in this life, yes? .. scary stuff ).

St. James differentiates between two different kinds of faith (James 2:14-26), a "saving" faith (which can be "seen" in type of lifestyle choices one makes by all who possess such faith .. holy living/good works/pleasing God/glorifying God), and a "dead" faith (which produces no changes in lifestyle or acts of righteousness in the one professing to have faith in Christ). Here in Matthew 7 however, we have a group of people who a) have clearly made a profession of faith in Christ and, b) have some truly miraculous works to demonstrate the validity of their profession but, c) are not saved.

Why do you think that is

Yours in Christ,
David

 

[John Hyperspace]

dont have time right now to reply to al of this . but there are major error . for example you say -no man under the law can be obedient ? incorrect .its no man can "be made righteous" by observing the law .one can certainly be obedient to it

I guess I'd need you to define your understanding of the law. But by the scripture teaching me, the only place one can be called "cursed" is under the law. So the verse is excluding anyone under grace, and only speaking to those under the law. And you can't be under the law if you're under grace. To me being under the law is a no-win scenario. I see nothing but wrath, casting out, and receiving of no inheritance awaiting anyone under the law.

 

[gadar perets]

I believe this is referring to those who are under the law, and, not under grace. Being under the law is what causes a person to become "lawless" as they cannot keep the law (James 2:10-11), and are "under the curse" (which is why Jesus also used the phrase "you cursed": Matthew 25:41; Galatians 3:10) and by being "under the law" they are accused by Moses as transgressors (John 5:45, James 2:9), have become the children of Hagar who are to be cast out and receive no inheritance with the "son of the freewoman" (Galatians 4:24; Galatians 4:30-31, Galatians 5:1) which freedom from the curse and wrath of the law (Romans 4:15) is only found in coming out from under the law to being under grace (Romans 3:19, Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:23, Galatians 4:4-5, Galatians 5:18, Romans 8:14). Thus Paul admonishes: Galatians 3:3, Galatians 5:4, 2 Corinthians 3:17 and this is why Christ "never knew them" because they removed out of being under grace, back into the spiritual Egypt of law-keeping, which is to draw back into the perdition, and bondage of corruption and death.

If, by "under the law," you mean believers don't have to obey it, then you are in error. If you mean people "under the law" seek to establish their own righteousness through the law without regard for Yeshua's imputed righteousness, then you are correct.

When confronted by Yeshua on Judgment Day, they didn't reply by saying, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not keep the Sabbath in your name, and in your name eat only clean food and perform many good works of the law?’ No. They were exercising gifts that stem from the Holy Spirit. The problem is, while exercising such gifts, they were also walking in sin by breaking Yahweh's laws. They were practicing sin. Either that or they were not doing them for the glory of Yahweh and according to His will, but for self glorification and towards their own ends.

 

[BukiRob]

I believe this is referring to those who are under the law, and, not under grace. Being under the law is what causes a person to become "lawless" as they cannot keep the law (James 2:10-11), and are "under the curse" (which is why Jesus also used the phrase "you cursed": Matthew 25:41; Galatians 3:10) and by being "under the law" they are accused by Moses as transgressors (John 5:45, James 2:9), have become the children of Hagar who are to be cast out and receive no inheritance with the "son of the freewoman" (Galatians 4:24; Galatians 4:30-31, Galatians 5:1) which freedom from the curse and wrath of the law (Romans 4:15) is only found in coming out from under the law to being under grace (Romans 3:19, Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:23, Galatians 4:4-5, Galatians 5:18, Romans 8:14). Thus Paul admonishes: Galatians 3:3, Galatians 5:4, 2 Corinthians 3:17 and this is why Christ "never knew them" because they removed out of being under grace, back into the spiritual Egypt of law-keeping, which is to draw back into the perdition, and bondage of corruption and death.

The problem with your position is you are not addressing the rest of what he says to them.... because Messiah specifically accuses them of being LAWLESS by saying depart from me you who practice lawlessness!

 

[gadar perets]

The only person that comes to my mind is Paul. Why? Because he used to say that he met Jesus on the Road to Damascus, that he talked to him, that he met him after resurrection, that Jesus taught him his gospel, that Jesus chose him for an apostle to the Gentiles, etc, and not a single one of his claims was true; and we all know for a fact that Jesus never met Paul anywhere and never even dreamed that he would ever cause the rise of Christianity.

Am I the only one that didn't know "for a fact that Jesus never met Paul anywhere"? Where do you get your facts, Shibolet?