“But a loving God would never send people to Hell”

Cockcrow

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It is a popular false teaching in the world and even in some churches today that God is all loving means no wrath, no Hell, no punishments, he tolerates whatever you feel like doing. But this is not the truth of God, when Jesus was on Earth he wasn’t this weak person who never pushed any buttons, he didn’t have a problem calling out evil. Jesus refuted, rebuked the Pharisees and the Sadducees to their face numerous times. (Matthew 23:25, Matthew 3:7, Matthew 23:13)

the fact is that Jesus knew when to be soft, he also knew when to be harsh, tough love is sometimes necessary in life depending on the situation, rebuke is sometimes necessary. (Proverbs 27:5-7) He knew which situation merited a gentle approach (The adulteress women situation comes to mind) and when he needed to be strong and blunt. (Matthew 21:12-13)

Remember back to when you were a child and your dad would discipline you when you broke the rules, well this is what God does with us (Hebrews 12:6-7) however sin is worse to God because he is a holy, righteous, sinless, infinite being, and while he still loves us no matter what, that doesn’t mean he tolerates evil, and that doesn’t mean there are no punishments.

Jesus showed righteous anger while on Earth, he demonstrated that righteous anger is not a sin, rebuking is not a sin (1 Timothy 5:20), being angry at someone without a cause is what is a sin. (Matthew 5:22) Jesus told us to judge righteous judgement. (John 7:24) God is angry at the wicked (Psalms 7:11) and there are things he does hate.(Proverbs 6:16-19) This notion that God can’t or won’t send people to hell because he is loving is completely contrary to scripture. (Revelation 20:10)

Hell is real and most are absolutely going there immediately after death for eternity of torment (Matthew 25:46, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Luke 13:23-24) God is loving, holy, just, all of these things are true. That doesn’t change the fact that the wicked will be turned into Hell (Psalms 9:17), the fact is that God is completely justified in sending people to Hell and the bible tells us that he will indeed send most people there. (Matthew 7:13–14) We can’t put our human opinions or attributes on the the things of God, his mind is not our mind. (Isaiah 55:8)

Weakness is not an attribute of God (2 Corinthians 13:4) God cannot tolerate evil, wickedness in his sight (Habakkuk 1:13) the only way we are justified before him is if we have faith in Jesus (Romans 5:1) Jesus is the only way for us to be righteous before a holy and just God. (Titus 3:7) Without Jesus we don’t have life (1 John 5:12)
 

Skye1300

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Hell is necessary because God can't let evil live in the midst of what's holy. He can't force people to choose Him and He can't let them live there if they don't choose Him. So hell is necessary. Plus hell was created for the devil to be punished, man is not supposed to go there. But if men align themselves with the devil, then they have to go where it goes.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Hell is real and most are absolutely going there immediately after death for eternity of torment
The verses used do not support the "immediately" aspect of your sentence. It implies the heresy of full preterism.

Since the judgment hasn't happened yet, someone cannot immediately go to the lake of fire after they die.
 
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Cockcrow

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The verses used do not support the "immediately" aspect of your sentence. It implies the heresy of full preterism.

Since the judgment hasn't happened yet, someone cannot immediately go to the lake of fire after they die.
Hell is immediate, Luke 16:22-23 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

We also know that this was immediate due to the fact that the rich mans brothers were still alive on the Earth during this time, the Rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn them. Luke 16:27-28

Hell and the Lake of Fire are separate locations, the first Hell is called the grave and it is immediate punishment after death until the day of resurrection, Revelation 20:13-14 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 
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sandman

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Hell and the Lake of Fire are separate locations
I agree, these are different...

Substitute hell for grave. The word hadēs (hell) in v23 was used by the Greek as a counterpart for the Hebrew word sheol which = grave ( more specifically... it's not the grave itself... but the state or reign of being in the grave)

Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible (1962 vol. 1 p788) states
“The English word hell has taken on the mythological Greek meaning associated with the pagan idea of an underworld where the dead continue to live on in torment.”


Then consider that what you are referencing in Luke 16 is a parable of a sort. It is addressed to the Pharisees (verse 14) The Pharisees, who believed in rewards and punishment immediately after death. Jesus told this to the Pharisees in light of their Talmudic traditions and beliefs. It was they, not Jesus, who coined the phrase “Abraham’s Bosom” as one of several afterlife locations. Jesus uses the parable to condemn the Pharisees and catch them in their own erroneous belief.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Hell is real...and immediate? Yes, crank up the threat, but I found in my own, very ordinary KJV, that "hell" is not mentioned as ever having been created. Further, God Himself fails to warn Adam & Eve about it in the Garden. Later, the Law which God delivered to Moses fails to mention the threat of "hell" or prescribe it as an afterlife punishment. Not one death in the entire Bible is connected by any phrase on the order of "...and then he/she went to Hell." The Lake of Fire is the closest thing to "hell" in the Bible, and even the KJV fails to call it Hell - in fact "hell" or more precisely, the grave, is tossed into the LoF.

Can we really justify the translation of any of the four words (sheol/hades/gehenna/tartarus) into "hell"? Opinions vary, but I say "NO!" Why? Because I found Hel in pagan Norse mythology, and "hell" in the Bible is surely an insertion from paganism. I can cite dozens of Bible versions without "hell" to support this.
 
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TedT

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Substitute hell for grave. The word hadēs (hell) in v23 was used by the Greek as a counterpart for the Hebrew word sheol which = grave ( more specifically... it's not the grave itself... but the state or reign of being in the grave)

Please consider this lengthy and erudite word study about life as a spirit:

Sheol is NOT THE GRAVE, as a cursory study shows;
there is too much evidence to put it all here so I'll post one url of so many that will provide what you have missed or passed over:

Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave

Hades is the New Testament equivalent of the Old Testament word Sheol. The Greek and Hebrew words speak of the same place, the present Hell. However, this is problematic because Sheol has been translated "grave" as often as it has "hell" and some have mistakenly taught that Sheol and Hades are only references to the grave rather than Hell. This erroneous teaching leads to the denial of the existence of an immediate or present Hell. The false doctrine of soul-sleep, and other ideas that teach the unconscious state of the dead between death and resurrection, spring from this error.

The common word for grave in the Old Testament is queber. Of the sixty-four times it is used, it is translated "grave" thirty-four times, "sepulcher" twenty-six times, and "burying place" four times. Queber is used five additional times as part of a place name, Kibroth-hattaavah, which means "graves of lust." As we said earlier, Sheol is found sixty-four times, being rendered "grave" thirty-one times, "hell" thirty-one times, and "pit" three times.

A comparison of how Sheol and queber are used reveals eight points of contrast that tell us that they are not the same thing.

1. Sheol is never used in plural form. Queber is used in the plural 29 times.

2. It is never said that the body goes to Sheol. Queber speaks of the body going there 37 times.

3. Sheol is never said to be located on the face of the earth. Queber is mentioned 32 times as being located on the earth.

4. An individual's Sheol is never mentioned. An individual's queber is mentioned 5 times.

5. Man is never said to put anyone into Sheol. Individuals are put into a queber by man (33 times).

6. Man is never said to have dug or fashioned a Sheol. Man is said to have dug, or fashioned, a queber (6 times).

7. Man is never said to have touched Sheol. Man touches, or can touch, a queber (5 times).

8. It is never said that man is able to possess a Sheol. Man is spoken of as being able to possess a queber (7 times). (These eight points of comparison are adapted from "Life and Death" by Caleb J. Baker, Bible Institute Colportage Ass'n, 1941).

From the differences between how Sheol and queber are used in Scripture, it is obvious that they are not the same thing. The Greek word Hades in the New Testament would fit into the Sheol column of our chart, strongly indicating that it is the same thing as Sheol. Hades is used eleven times, being rendered Hell ten times and grave once.

ibid:
While we have not exhausted the subject by looking at every passage that Sheol is found in, it is clear from these examples that Sheol is not simply the grave but is located at the center of the earth and is the abode of the souls of the unrighteous dead who are awaiting their resurrection unto condemnation. It is equally clear that those in Sheol/Hades are not in an unconscious state of existence but are quite aware of what is going on around them. There is memory, recognition, and communication there.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Hell is immediate, Luke 16:22-23 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

We also know that this was immediate due to the fact that the rich mans brothers were still alive on the Earth during this time, the Rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn them. Luke 16:27-28

Hell and the Lake of Fire are separate locations, the first Hell is called the grave and it is immediate punishment after death until the day of resurrection, Revelation 20:13-14 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The revelation 20 verse says "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them"

The time of delivering of the contents of the place of the dead and the place of hell hasn't come yet.

People immediately experience - something - but what that is cannot be discerned since when Jesus died, this changed many things.

Furthermore, since the time of the contents of those dead soul containers being emptied has not yet come, no one has tasted of the second death .. except Christians. (1 Peter 4:17).
 
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Der Alte

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I agree, these are different...
Substitute hell for grave. The word hadēs (hell) in v23 was used by the Greek as a counterpart for the Hebrew word sheol which = grave ( more specifically... it's not the grave itself... but the state or reign of being in the grave)

Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible (1962 vol. 1 p788) states
“The English word hell has taken on the mythological Greek meaning associated with the pagan idea of an underworld where the dead continue to live on in torment.”
Then consider that what you are referencing in Luke 16 is a parable of a sort. It is addressed to the Pharisees (verse 14) The Pharisees, who believed in rewards and punishment immediately after death. Jesus told this to the Pharisees in light of their Talmudic traditions and beliefs. It was they, not Jesus, who coined the phrase “Abraham’s Bosom” as one of several afterlife locations. Jesus uses the parable to condemn the Pharisees and catch them in their own erroneous belief.
@Lazarus Short
That is the standard anti-Bible internet mythology. Here are the documented facts.
My ¢¢ Below are quotes from three credible Jewish sources; the 1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, 1972 Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been, and I am convinced cannot be, refuted.
= = = = =
…..It is very enticing to claim that the Christian concept of "Hell" was somehow derived from Dante's 14th century writing “Inferno,” or some later writing. But according to these three sources, at least 16 centuries before Dante even scribbled one line, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. Sheol and gehinnom are written Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT. As can be seen by the citations in this post The Jews later called both Sheol/Hades, and Ge Hinnom/Gehenna, “Hell.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not disprove anything in this post.

[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]
Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the fifteen [15] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning.

”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.

 
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BPPLEE

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I agree, these are different...

Substitute hell for grave. The word hadēs (hell) in v23 was used by the Greek as a counterpart for the Hebrew word sheol which = grave ( more specifically... it's not the grave itself... but the state or reign of being in the grave)

Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible (1962 vol. 1 p788) states
“The English word hell has taken on the mythological Greek meaning associated with the pagan idea of an underworld where the dead continue to live on in torment.”


Then consider that what you are referencing in Luke 16 is a parable of a sort. It is addressed to the Pharisees (verse 14) The Pharisees, who believed in rewards and punishment immediately after death. Jesus told this to the Pharisees in light of their Talmudic traditions and beliefs. It was they, not Jesus, who coined the phrase “Abraham’s Bosom” as one of several afterlife locations. Jesus uses the parable to condemn the Pharisees and catch them in their own erroneous belief.
In no other parable is anyone given a name. Jesus referred to actual people in this case.
 
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Jonaitis

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Hell and the Lake of Fire are separate locations, the first Hell is called the grave and it is immediate punishment after death until the day of resurrection, Revelation 20:13-14 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
I disagree. The Lake of Fire, Hades, Hell, Outer Darkness, etc., are technically the same thing, but describe different aspects of the abode of the wicked. The suffering rich man in Hades is an illustration of judgment and the separation of God. The description in Revelation speaks of it in terms of its eschatological end for mankind.
 
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3 Resurrections

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There is a passage in Isaiah 33 that caused me to rethink the doctrine of Hell some time back. This chapter indicates that it is a GOOD thing to be able to live in the presence of "consuming fire".

Daniel 7:9-10 gives us a vivid description of the throne of God. Daniel said that in his vision he saw where "the Ancient of days did sit...his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him..." Lots of fire going on here. Pure energy and utter holiness on display.

Hebrews 12:29 also tells us that we are to worship God with reverence and godly fear because "our God is a consuming fire." A consuming fire utterly destroys anything corruptible by its effects.

In the Isaiah 33 passage it describes who the blessed persons are who will be able to dwell in the presence of this consuming fire. As a result of God arising to bring judgment, "...The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; He shall dwell on high: his place of defense shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure. Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off...".

This sounds like it is a laudable thing for a person to be dwell in heaven with God's presence of consuming fire, without being destroyed by that utter holiness. To be able to do this, the saints' corruptible bodies must be changed and made incorruptible in the resurrection process. This renders our physical glorified bodies immortal, and gives us the ability to stand in God's presence face to face without being consumed by that stream of fire coming out from before Him.

Sinners without the covering of Christ's imputed holiness giving them immortality are consumed utterly by this same fire. They have every reason to be afraid of God's ability to utterly consume them, both body and soul (Matthew 10:28). This fear is their torment when facing their judge. "Fear hath torment". The greater the offenses, the greater the level of tormenting fear when the spirits of sinners come before God in a judgment.
 
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Lazarus Short

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There is a passage in Isaiah 33 that caused me to rethink the doctrine of Hell some time back. This chapter indicates that it is a GOOD thing to be able to live in the presence of "consuming fire".

Daniel 7:9-10 gives us a vivid description of the throne of God. Daniel said that in his vision he saw where "the Ancient of days did sit...his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him..." Lots of fire going on here. Pure energy and utter holiness on display.

Hebrews 12:29 also tells us that we are to worship God with reverence and godly fear because "our God is a consuming fire." A consuming fire utterly destroys anything corruptible by its effects.

In the Isaiah 33 passage it describes who the blessed persons are who will be able to dwell in the presence of this consuming fire. As a result of God arising to bring judgment, "...The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; He shall dwell on high: his place of defense shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure. Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off...".

This sounds like it is a laudable thing for a person to be dwell in heaven with God's presence of consuming fire, without being destroyed by that utter holiness. To be able to do this, the saints' corruptible bodies must be changed and made incorruptible in the resurrection process. This renders our physical glorified bodies immortal, and gives us the ability to stand in God's presence face to face without being consumed by that stream of fire coming out from before Him.

Sinners without the covering of Christ's imputed holiness giving them immortality are consumed utterly by this same fire. They have every reason to be afraid of God's ability to utterly consume them, both body and soul (Matthew 10:28). This fear is their torment when facing their judge. "Fear hath torment". The greater the offenses, the greater the level of tormenting fear when the spirits of sinners come before God in a judgment.

Even now, we burn as we oxidize food/fuel. In the life to come, we will live in what I call Godfire. It is the very presence of God. Is it to torture us? No, for it is Godfire, not "hellfire." Is it to destroy us? No - take a hint from the bush Moses visited, for it was not consumed. God calls Himself a Refiner of men, and His Fire is to do just that. If we react with fear and horror, that is our problem, for He intends it for Glory.
 
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Cockcrow

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The verses used do not support the "immediately" aspect of your sentence. It implies the heresy of full preterism.

Since the judgment hasn't happened yet, someone cannot immediately go to the lake of fire after they die.
The revelation 20 verse says "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them"

The time of delivering of the contents of the place of the dead and the place of hell hasn't come yet.

People immediately experience - something - but what that is cannot be discerned since when Jesus died, this changed many things.

Furthermore, since the time of the contents of those dead soul containers being emptied has not yet come, no one has tasted of the second death .. except Christians. (1 Peter 4:17).

I was talking about the first Hell, the temporary place before the day of Judgement not the Lake of Fire which obviously hasn't happened yet, and then you falsely lied calling me a Preterist. I never said the LOF was immediate, and they are clearly separate places because Hell is described as being in the heart of the Earth, and on judgment day Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire which hasn't happened yet, you misread my post and falsely accused me of Heresy violating the commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I was talking about the first Hell, the temporary place before the day of Judgement not the Lake of Fire which obviously hasn't happened yet, and then you falsely lied calling me a Preterist. I never said the LOF was immediate, and they are clearly separate places because Hell is described as being in the heart of the Earth, and on judgment day Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire which hasn't happened yet, you misread my post and falsely accused me of Heresy violating the commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."
No, you said

"Hell is real and most are absolutely going there immediately after death for eternity of torment"

The dead soul container hell or "the grave" is not an eternal destination.

Eternity of torment is only the lake of fire, and only if you subscribe to the doctrine of eternal torment. The people in the other place other than "hell" are also emptied into the lake of fire if their names are not written in the book of life.

It is not false witness, you stated people immediately go to a place of eternal torment after dying. That is not correct, and this is what I have been saying.
 
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Cockcrow

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No, you said

"Hell is real and most are absolutely going there immediately after death for eternity of torment"

The dead soul container hell or "the grave" is not an eternal destination.

Eternity of torment is only the lake of fire, and only if you subscribe to the doctrine of eternal torment. The people in the other place other than "hell" are also emptied into the lake of fire if their names are not written in the book of life.

It is not false witness, you stated people immediately go to a place of eternal torment after dying. That is not correct, and this is what I have been saying.
"The people in the other place other than "hell" are also emptied into the lake of fire if their names are not written in the book of life."

what "other place" are you talking about?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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"The people in the other place other than "hell" are also emptied into the lake of fire if their names are not written in the book of life."

what "other place" are you talking about?
doesn't the passage say, hell and death are emptied, and all who are not in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire?

There are two places, hell, and death. They are emptied, and a new destination is determined after the judgment.
 
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