“About The Great Tribulation”

[Dave L]

This doesn't answer the points unfortunately. I've read this passage, and take the words literally. You've yet to address the timing issue I've raised twice.

How can there be a timing issue if the believers recognized the abomination of desolation and left the region based on Jesus' warnings?

 

[NW82]

How can there be a timing issue if the believers recognized the abomination of desolation and left the region based on Jesus' warnings?

The timing issue is, as I have stated twice:

• You are starting the tribulation took place at the destruction of Jerusalem
• You say that Christ said the destruction was the tribulation
• You said, As Jesus said, they already happened. "or ever shall be" means never to be that bad again, which you attribute to the destruction of Jerusalem.
• To the point above, the siege of Jerusalem was bad, but so were others in antiquity. According to Josephus 1.1 million non combatants, presumably Jews, died.
• In the holocaust 6 million Jews died.
• The timing issue is that Christ was speaking of a future event that would have no equal in its evil, past or present. Clearly worse events, in the world and to the Jews, happened well after 70 A.D.

 

[Dave L]

The timing issue is, as I have stated twice:

• You are starting the tribulation took place at the destruction of Jerusalem
• You say that Christ said the destruction was the tribulation
• You said, As Jesus said, they already happened. "or ever shall be" means never to be that bad again, which you attribute to the destruction of Jerusalem.
• To the point above, the siege of Jerusalem was bad, but so were others in antiquity. According to Josephus 1.1 million non combatants, presumably Jews, died.
• In the holocaust 6 million Jews died.
• The timing issue is that Christ was speaking of a future event that would have no equal in its evil, past or present. Clearly worse events, in the world and to the Jews, happened well after 70 A.D.

Not true. Jesus said; “Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.” (Matthew 23:36)

 

[BABerean2]

The timing issue is, as I have stated twice:

• You are starting the tribulation took place at the destruction of Jerusalem
• You say that Christ said the destruction was the tribulation
• You said, As Jesus said, they already happened. "or ever shall be" means never to be that bad again, which you attribute to the destruction of Jerusalem.
• To the point above, the siege of Jerusalem was bad, but so were others in antiquity. According to Josephus 1.1 million non combatants, presumably Jews, died.
• In the holocaust 6 million Jews died.
• The timing issue is that Christ was speaking of a future event that would have no equal in its evil, past or present. Clearly worse events, in the world and to the Jews, happened well after 70 A.D.

What if the "times of the Gentiles" is the same as "the tribulation of those days" and includes the time period which ends at the future Second Coming of Christ?


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (We have the future Second Coming of Christ in the verses that follow.)
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.



Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[iamlamad]

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Matthew 24:21.

As we begin to discuss about the great tribulation, it is important we first understand the meaning of the keyword ‘tribulation’ as used in the opening text…

The word translated as ‘tribulation’ in the opening text, is from the Greek word ‘thlipsis’, meaning—pressure. It means pressure—either literally or figuratively. Other synonyms of the word tribulation as translated in the New Testament are: affliction, anguish, burden, persecution, and trouble.

All through the ages, since the fall of Adam and Eve, mankind has faced several kinds of tribulation and disaster. Some God-made—by his sovereign ideal; some man-made; and some others, devils’-made…

Even Israel—the chosen nation of God—also went through tribulations from God as a result of their evil deeds. Then the Church of Christ, since her emergence after the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, has also suffered tribulations, especially in the form of persecution from non-believers.

But concerning the great tribulation, the Lord tells us in his own words that the great tribulation is a special kind of tribulation. That has never been experienced since the beginning of the world till the time he was speaking…

And that the great tribulation will not have its kind after it. Many Christian theologians are divided on their understanding and explanation of the great tribulation as mentioned by the Lord. Especially concerning its features and timing. So in this article, we want to see exactly what the scriptures say concerning the great tribulation.

The Features of the Great Tribulation

Having already known the meaning of the word ‘tribulation’, the great tribulation can therefore be explained as a period of great and unusual affliction. On the entire world and its inhabitants. And the major features of the great tribulation from scriptures are as follows:

1) A Period of Great Deception: “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect”—Matthew 24:24. A major feature of the great tribulation is an unusual emergence of deception.

Which will be masterminded by the anti-Christ and his false prophet (see 2 Thessallonians2:9-11; Revelation 13:13-15) the bible says the deceptions at the great tribulation will be so strong that if it were possible, the very elect of God shall also be deceived.


2) A Period of Great Persecution of the Saints: “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues and nations”—Revelation 13:7 (see also Daniel 8:24).

Another prominent feature of the great tribulation is an unusual persecution of the Church. Yes, the church and saints of God of all ages have been persecuted and even martyred in large scale. But the persecution of the saints at the great tribulation will be far greater.

The world will be subjected to many kinds of idolatry and rituals of which anyone that fails to follow suit, will be killed or ostracised (see Revelation 13:12, 14-15).


3) A Period of God’s Wrath: The final stage of the great tribulation is a period of unusual disaster from God (Revelation 16:1-14). And this last phase of the great tribulation will happen after the rapture of the Church at the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The bible says the true believers will not partake of God’s wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

To better understand this fact, the words of our Lord Jesus give us an eye-opener. Here are his exact words: “But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered the ark; and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”—Matthew 24:37-39.

So amidst the great tribulation, Christ will come and rapture his church and after that, the remaining inhabitants of the earth will face the wrath of God as it was in the days of Noah.

Admonishment to the Church Concerning the Great Tribulation

With the above three features of the great tribulation, it is very clear that the saints or believers will partake of the great tribulation. Especially the periods of great deception and persecution. But the believers will not partake of the last phase of the great tribulation which is the wrath of God or the judgement of God.

However, concerning the great tribulation, the Lord admonishes the believers thus:

“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man”—Luke 21:36.


From the above scripture, the Lord admonishes us concerning the great tribulation to be watchful and prayerful always. So we may be accounted worthy of escaping the things that shall come to pass at the great tribulation so that in the end, we will be able to stand before him—the Son of man.

Escape as used in the above scripture, can take either of two forms… Either escaping through death or martyr; or escaping through the rapture at the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who do not escape the great tribulation will be taken in the tribulation. Either they are taken by the great deception or are taken by the great persecution through personal subjection…

And that is why the Lord admonishes us to be watchful and prayerful always. Because it’s only through these two spiritual tools we would be able to escape the great deception and persecution of the end-time at the great tribulation…

And finally be able to stand before our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ in paradise forever.

Remain Blessed!

Emeke Odili

Sorry, but Paul places HIS rapture before the 70th week begins. The bride of Christ will not see ANY of the days of GT that Jesus spoke of.

By the way, the REASON this will be greater than any other time of GT is because of SCOPE: it is probably going to be world wide.

 

[iamlamad]

4 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, [a voice] as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.

2 Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne; 3 and he that sat [was] to look upon like a jasper stone and a sardius: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, like an emerald to look upon.

Revelation 4

/the first voice which I heard=the one from the chapter 1 that was as a trumpet
/John had stopped being in the Spirit between chapter 3 and 4.
/things which must come-hereafter

How do you know He was not "in the Spirit" when He was called up?

 

[iamlamad]

You need to watch out what you accuse me of doing.
You also need to see that John started a new vision being shown to him at Rev. 4:1. He had to even get in the Spirit. It was - after -the other vision ended.
Revelation 4:1
Revelation 1:1

You have to be very careful not to REARRANGE REvelation. You have been doing this in almost every post.

NO theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is correct and will be proven wrong.

 

[iamlamad]

Please just answer the question.


Did Jesus come and fight against the Roman army and destroy them?


Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:3


again


And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12
JLB

VERY good points - but he will ignore them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Matthew 24:21.

As we begin to discuss about the great tribulation, it is important we first understand the meaning of the keyword ‘tribulation’ as used in the opening text…

The word translated as ‘tribulation’ in the opening text, is from the Greek word ‘thlipsis’, meaning—pressure. It means pressure—either literally or figuratively. Other synonyms of the word tribulation as translated in the New Testament are: affliction, anguish, burden, persecution, and trouble.

Have you considered the great tribulation happened in 70 AD in the destruction of Jerusalem as Jesus said it would? And that when he returns it will be as in the days of Noah? People marrying and giving in marriage. Saying peace and safety?

Do you also view that event in Revelation?

Zephaniah 1:15
That day is a day of wrath,
A day of distress<6869> and constaint<4691>,
A day of devastation and desolation, A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness,

Daniel 12:1
"In that time Michael shall stand-up, the chief/prince, the great, the one, standing over sons of thy people.
And time of distress/06869 tsarah, which not occured since to become of a nation, until the time, that. And in that time, thy people shall escape, Every of the one being found being written in scroll.

06869 tsarah {tsaw-raw'} from 06862; TWOT - 1973c,1974b; n f
AV - trouble 44, distress 8, affliction 7, adversity 5, anguish 5, tribulation 3, adversary 1; 7

The word #3709 is used only in 4 verses of the Gospels. 1 each in Matt and Mark, 2 in Luke.
Look at a concordance where it is used:

G3709(NKJV)

Coincidentally, both Matt and Luke have the same chapter and verse #:

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,
“Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath<3709> to come?
Luke 3:7
Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him,
“Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath<3709?

Luke 21:21
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress<318> in the land and wrath<3709>upon this people.

Luke uses the same form the word #3709 used in Revelation 11:

Revelation 11:18
The nations are angered<3710>,
and came Thy wrath/ὀργή<3709>,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Oldmantook]

The bible says the true believers will not partake of God’s wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Using this verse to support a supposed rapture is faulty. The reason is, God can preserve his people in the midst of his wrath without removing them from the earth. God preserved Noah and his family on the earth in the midst of the great flood. God preserved the Israelites from his plagues while they were still living in Egypt. There is no reason to presume that God cannot do the same thing for his saints in the midst of the great tribulation.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

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