“About The Great Tribulation”

[emekrus]

Learn about what the symbols represent. Then you can pick out the various ways God fulfilled them and know what to expect tomorrow.

Given your view that the great tribulation has already started. Why hasn't its effects heightened instead of cooling off from the 70AD event that you make reference to? From the scriptures, the effect of the great tribulation ought to get worse until the coming of Christ.

 

[Dave L]

Given your view that the great tribulation has already started. Why hasn't its effects heightened instead of cooling off from the 70AD event that you make reference to? From the scriptures, the effect of the great tribulation ought to get worse until the coming of Christ.

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:21)

 

[JLB777]

You are not running this through Jesus and the NT writers first. And your's interpretation is flawed because of this.

Context -


The coming of the Lord and the end of the age is what the Olivet Discourse as well as Zechariah 14 are about.


Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Matthew 24:3





Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5





JLB

 

[emekrus]

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:21)

That's correct, and you said it is on. Where are the unprecedented effects now

 

[JLB777]

Given your view that the great tribulation has already started. Why hasn't its effects heightened instead of cooling off from the 70AD event that you make reference to? From the scriptures, the effect of the great tribulation ought to get worse until the coming of Christ.

He’s saying Christ came in 70 AD.


Total heresy.




JLB

 

[Dave L]

That's correct, and you said it is on. Where are the unprecedented effects now

As Jesus said, they already happened. "or ever shall be" means never to be that bad again.

 

[NW82]

Jesus said it was the worst ever and ever shall be. If you study Josephus the Jewish historian, it was beyond the most vile of imaginations.

Are you saying the destruction of Jerusalem exceeded the holocaust? Given my historical knowledge of both, I doubt it, as many sieges in antiquity were of the scale of Jerusalem, or worse. This would mean the coming tribulation would be worse than both.

 

[Dave L]

Context -


The coming of the Lord and the end of the age is what the Olivet Discourse as well as Zechariah 14 are about.


Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Matthew 24:3





Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5





JLB

But you cannot understand this unless you use Jesus' definitions of key words. Totally different under the NT.

 

[JLB777]

You are not running this through Jesus and the NT writers first. And your's interpretation is flawed because of this.

Please just answer the question.


Did Jesus come and fight against the Roman army and destroy them?


Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:3


again


And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12




JLB

 

[JLB777]

But you cannot understand this unless you use Jesus' definitions of key words. Totally different under the NT.

Your twisting of scripture has caught up to you.




JLB

 

[Dave L]

Please just answer the question.


Did Jesus come and fight against the Roman army and destroy them?


Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:3


again


And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12




JLB

You assume the "armies" are the Romans. Reading ideas into scripture again.......?

 

[Dave L]

Your twisting of scripture has caught up to you.




JLB

Only if I reject Jesus' definitions as is popular these days.

 

[NW82]

As Jesus said, they already happened. "or ever shall be" means never to be that bad again.

He didn't say the tribulation had already occurred. By your own logic this doesn't follow either. If you state the tribulation was the destruction of Jerusalem, and yet Christ said this, presumably, before 33-35 A.D., and Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D.,

 

[Dave L]

He didn't say the tribulation had already occurred. By your own logic this doesn't follow either. If you state the tribulation was the destruction of Jerusalem, and yet Christ said this, presumably, before 33-35 A.D., and Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D.,

"Nor ever shall be" = future of something already past.

 

[JLB777]

You assume the "armies" are the Romans. Reading ideas into scripture again.......?

The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.


The coming of the Lord at the end of the age to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture are described in the Olivet Discourse as well as Zechariah 14.


The Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD.


JLB

 

[emekrus]

As Jesus said, they already happened. "or ever shall be" means never to be that bad again.

Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

So has the immediate effect of the after tribulation taken place as written in the scripture above?

 

[JLB777]

Only if I reject Jesus' definitions as is popular these days.

Please just answer the question.


Did Jesus come and fight against the Roman army and destroy them?


Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:3


again


And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12




JLB

 

[NW82]

"Nor ever shall be" = future of something already past.

Yes as in when it happens nothing will be as bad after it happens. This doesn't implicitly mean past tense. And you didnt address the timing issue your logic has. Christ would not have, in your view, said this about a future event because it would have already happened. Or is it more likely that Christ referred to a future event, and you assume it to be the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[Dave L]

Yes as in when it happens nothing will be as bad after it happens. This doesn't implicitly mean past tense. And you didnt address the timing issue your logic has. Christ would not have, in your view, said this about a future event because it would have already happened. Or is it more likely that Christ referred to a future event, and you assume it to be the destruction of Jerusalem.

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand, Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.” (Matthew 24:15–28)

 

[NW82]

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand, Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.” (Matthew 24:15–28)

This doesn't answer the points unfortunately. I've read this passage, and take the words literally. You've yet to address the timing issue I've raised twice.