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Featured “...be in subjection to the governing authorities” Romans 13

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by redleghunter, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. S.O.J.I.A.

    S.O.J.I.A. Dynamic UNO

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    so the things I mentioned are no longer sins...correct?
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    True. Wicked laws - that required that we kill babies or other such things should not be followed. But we have a lot of laws that are not wicked. Laws for individual rights, human rights, property rights, speed limits,

    The constitution and our laws protecting America are in general - good ones.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    No they remain sin -- the Bible is unchanged by extreme leftist agendas. But if I lived in a state that approved prostitution (as an example) I would still hold that it is a "sin" however I would not be empowered by God to execute justice or punish those who engaged in it lawfully and sought to promote it. (Other than voting them out of office of course)
     
  4. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

    Bow to the governments of man or the governance of God. Your choice. Can't have it both ways. Bow to the governance of God and leave the governments of man to their own folly and self defeating ways and destruction.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    And in Romans 13 Jesus says to obey the government. In the case of Rom 13 -- it is one of the most oppressive and violent governments that ever existed in history.

    And in that context - the Word of God commands "obedience". So unless government wants you to break one of the Ten Commandments -- or any other part of the moral law of God that defines what sin is -- you are under moral obligation to comply with the government's law according to Rom 13.
     
  6. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    That shouldn't be a problem today. Governments serve mammon, not God.
    Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon
     
  7. S.O.J.I.A.

    S.O.J.I.A. Dynamic UNO

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    I'm looking for the person I quoted to answer to see if they're going to remain consistent with their position or balk.
     
  8. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    This is a tough one because Jefferson , Madison and other deist/ humanist enlightened thinkers actually thought we had the right to rebel against and over-throw the King . Thomas Paine influenced many along those lines of thought . He was particularly apt since his father was a quasi-quaker ( pacifist ) and his mother and anglican . Paine knew scripture well and used it to his advantage against those believers loyal to the King though he died an atheist .
    It is interesting that Romans said to avoid any man who causes division contrary to the doctrines that you have learned of me for he does not serve the Lord Jesus Christ but his own belly. Who through fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple . We were formed in rebellion . Shall we not reap what was sown ? Obey governing authorities ? That cow has been out of the barn for over 200 plus years unless I am dreaming .
     
  9. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    Well, Rome's government wasn't founded righteously either, alas, what earthly government was?

    Someone brought up the point of remaining under the authority we were born into. So, in the United States of America, the true authority is the Constitution and, as someone else pointed out, we are instructed to cast off any imposters who try to deny us our unalienable rights...am I right?
     
  10. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Who decides? Which denominational standards and bylaws determine which civil laws you will follow and which ones you won't? It makes far more sense if the authorities are elders, pastors, spiritual leaders who resist evil. There is not a secular government on earth in ANY country that isn't doing something that strikes some kind of fear into it's citizens. And so... we follow these people and to resist THEM is to resist God?
     
  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    You have to do what is legal first. As I said.
     
  12. Tolkien R.R.J

    Tolkien R.R.J Well-Known Member

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    Agreed once more, proper government is to be followed anarchy is not biblical.


    13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority:whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.


    And when this was not the case, Peter and Jesus and the disciples rebelled to tyrants.

    Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God
     
  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Prophesy is like warm Jello water with a couple of ice cubes
    and you never know when it will set into solid Jello.
     
  14. Tolkien R.R.J

    Tolkien R.R.J Well-Known Member

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    Yikes.

    "You shall have no other gods before me.
    Exodus 20.3
     
  15. Tolkien R.R.J

    Tolkien R.R.J Well-Known Member

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    you cited motley from the OT and one from the new, all refuted in context but it was odd as you just rejected my OT passages because you said it had been done away with. Weirdest post ever.
     
  16. Tolkien R.R.J

    Tolkien R.R.J Well-Known Member

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  17. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    My point exactly. You have nothing to gain rebelling against the country you are in.
    A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.
     
  18. Tolkien R.R.J

    Tolkien R.R.J Well-Known Member

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    this has to do with slavery, not government. Slavery was private property.
     
  19. Tolkien R.R.J

    Tolkien R.R.J Well-Known Member

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    no that is here.

    Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God


    I posted those verses as you know and dodged to show not all leaders are appointed by God as you claimed, divine right of kings of the catholic tradition.
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Sin is an internal dialogue between you and God.
    There are clues, but it is mostly invisible.
    Believers sins are washed clean by Jesus blood.

    1 Samuel 16,7
    But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”
     
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