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Featured “...be in subjection to the governing authorities” Romans 13

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by redleghunter, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Hebrews 8 is not the Old Testament. Weirdest complaint evv-er.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    It's the response to your post. Hello?


    Hebrews 8
    In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. - Hebrews 8

    8For finding fault with them, He says,
    “BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
    WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
    WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

    9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
    ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
    TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
    FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
    AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

    10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
    AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
    I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
    AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
    AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
    AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

    11“AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
    AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, ‘KNOW THE LORD,’
    FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,
    FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

    12“FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
    AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

    13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    There is no good context for Psalms.
    A good response is better local law of course.
    Treat others as you would wish they treated you. - Local law
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Context: Obey the law, submit to legal standing, government is obeyed above scripture.

    20 Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called. 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Do not let it concern you, but if you can gain your freedom, take the opportunity. 22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ’s slave.

    23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brothers, each one should remain in the situation he was in when God called him.
     
  5. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The psalms are a general commentary on history. Still, none promote civil disobedience inside the kingdom.
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I don't pick and choose. I use a search tool that has no bias. I do skip the passages that are off the topic, but there is only one passage opposed to authority, and it turns out to be church authority. I feared that one opposed my conclusion until I read the context.
    So here is my tool:
    What Does the Bible Say About Government?

    If you use it, you'll come to the same conclusion as I did.
    Obey your local government first, follow God's Laws in your heart second.

    1 Cor 7
    20 Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called. 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Do not let it concern you, but if you can gain your freedom, take the opportunity. 22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brothers, each one should remain in the situation he was in when God called him.
     
  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Nothing advocating civil disobedience. Fail
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Nothing on civil disobedience here.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    It is God's will that we follow local law first. God's law in our hearts second.
    Just as Jesus explained that local law was the Father will. (Authority over Jesus!)

    John 19:11
    Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.
     
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    That is the wrong conclusion. Local law comes first. Under local law you must follow Gods law as written in your heart. "We ought to obey God rather than men" is Peter telling the council of bishops and the High Priest in particular to "Take a Hike".

    He is saying that the Religious council has zero authority over the actions of man.
    They rank below local law and below God's law. They have zero authority.
    And I agree.
     
  11. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    I agree with your post. Sadly, a lot of Christians don't know how to read Romans 13 and other writings of Paul and often easily misinterpret them.

    Romans 13 is purely culture, period, and region-specific.

    Romans 13 is Not applicable in every situation.

    Proof: Why are many Christians get persecuted, punished, jailed, executed for doing what is good and what is right in many countries? Many characters in the Bible who openly opposed/disobeyed laws that undermine the commandments of the Lord and became persecuted as a result.
     
  12. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    What if the law of the local government states that all citizens must take the mark of the beast?
     
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  13. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    Right!

    Romans 13 is culture, period, and region specific as many of Paul's teachings are.

    "If you do what is good you have nothing to fear from the authorities...."

    We all know that NOT true in every situation. In some countries, a Christian can be sent to jail for doing what is good.

    Not everything of Paul's teaching apply to every audience. Even Paul himself gave a "soft disclaimer" of his teaching style being culture/region specific. Even his letters are intended for specific recipients.... It's not a "one size fits all" message.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  14. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    Burn only a little incense to Caesar as god. No need to die for something so little. Also, eat this meat sacrificed to Idols.
     
  15. Pioneer3mm

    Pioneer3mm Active Member Supporter

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    Persecuted Christians in "restricted countries" are "disobedient / rebellious".. according to governing authorities.
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So let me get this straight, if local law or government law told you to ignore God's laws you would favor local law and the government?

    Would you take the mark of the beast because it was a government law?

    As for the phrase in Acts: Well, the Jews used to be a nation. We are also told to obey our masters or bosses in Scripture (Again if it does not conflict with Scripture). Also, the Jewish high priests during that time were considered leaders or rulers of the Jewish people to the apostles. Even Paul recognizes that he should not speak against his own Jewish leaders (Acts of the Apostles 23:5). But they disobeyed them because their laws and ways conflicting with God's laws.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, this would be the exception to the rule. If a law or governing authority goes against God's laws like persecuting Christians, the laws on persecuting Christians do not apply. But if it was a general law of the land (like the traffic laws) and it does not conflict with God's Word, they are to still obey these other general laws, i.e. like the traffic laws (even if their government is wrongfully breaking God's laws by persecuting them).
     
  18. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    It can also be that the context of "Authority" only applies to those who will enact them with sound leadership, integrity, Godly wisdom, and compassion.

    Leaders who cannot abide by those principles, are evil, are not recognized as authority....Because it would be absurd to follow the law of the land or a leader if that law or leader causes you to violate one or more of the Lord's commandments.

    Plenty examples of such disobedience by Israelites in the Bible if their leaders are evil. Such authority is not recognized.
     
  19. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    How would Muslims who became Christians know this if it forbidden to own a Bible and also forbidden to hold non-Islamic religious gatherings/fellowship in their country?

    The fact, they became Christians in the first place, a Christian talked to them about Christ. Did that Christian disobeyed the Lord or did evil?
     
  20. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I agree without question.
     
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