‘Christian Terrorists’ Don’t Exist

AHH who-stole-my-name

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i really get tired of religiously motivated hit pieces on other religions. I'm also quite tired of blanket statements against one group whose intent is always determined by the very partisan or religious wrags that produce these same hit pieces. what we have as reality today was not created in a box and we need to look deeper than the last week, month or year to see why such things as this is happening.

terrorism is a way to get noticed, plain and simple and if you noticed pretty much all terrorist have had a grudge against what they would call insurmountable odds.

the pp shooter was against those he shot because the acceptance of abortion was so widespread. only by doing what he did he thought he could get his message out over the resounding indifference of the rest of America. or so he thought.

Tim McVey, pretty much the same thing, but that time it was the government intrusion in our lives.

i don't think that either of these was a practising Cristian, but i don't think terrorism in the middle east is religious orientated. i think it's done for political reasons and the religion is nothing more that a rallying cry for those people who want a return to what they themselves call normalcy.

i think we don't see that because we are so emotionally invested in our own culture and so believing that it is right for everyone else, that we've actively been pushing it onto the lives of those who have been the same for 1000's of years and are quite comfortable staying that way.

to test my understanding of that all you need to do is ask yourself what interest we would have over there if there wasn't any terrorism/ i'd say about as much as we do for canada. hell, the only reason we notice mexico is because of the imigration issue.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Muslims aren't the only ones that can't separate politics from religion. I belonged to a fundamentalist church for quite a few years and it was made quite clear to us that the GOP was God's Party and that we had better vote for them. I'm sure there are many other Christians who can vouch for being pressured to vote for the GOP.

There is quite a bit of a difference between a particular religious denominations favoring a political party and a general religious dogma that insists upon the fusion of church and state. I should also point out that for a Catholic in the northeast during parts of the 20th century there was a lot of pressure to vote for the Democratic party so it is not only the fundamentalists that play that game. When a political party's agenda is in line with a denomination's agenda the denomination will often nudge its flock in that direction. Not the same as saying the government and the religion ought to be one.
 
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ViaCrucis

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He painted Islam as a vile creed (which I think it is) and pointed out its consequences. Islamic atrocities are certainly unloving. Talking about them is not. If you're not bothered by Islamic conduct, there's no good reason to be bothered by people talking about it.

Talking about extremists perpetuating evil acts isn't unloving.
Condemning and ridiculing over a billion people on the planet by trying to associate an entire religion with the most extreme and violent fringes of those in the religion is prejudicial, discriminatory, and wrong. That's the unloving part.

Using a double standard that Islam is a violent and evil religion because of the most violent and extremist elements of that religion while saying that Christians can't be terrorists because the most violent and extremist elements of our religion don't count is simply speaking out of both sides of one's mouth, being a hypocrite. The goal is to demonize "the other" and insist that "my tribe" can do no wrong. There's nothing in this that conforms to Jesus' teaching on being a people that loves and serves others, even our enemy, with openness and compassion. It's just the same hypocritical religious tribalism that Jesus regularly condemns in the Gospels.

It's wanting to have the appearance of righteousness without being righteous. It's being a white washed tomb, filled with dead men's bones. Don't wash only the outside of the cup, wash the inside first.

Jesus tells us the story of the Pharisee and the Publican. It's the Publican--the enemy other--that is the Christian example in that story. A Christian therefore is not supposed to be one who gloats in his religious superiority, but who lowers his head, beats his breast, and says, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner."

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Gentle Lamb

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Matthew 13

The Purpose of the Parables

10Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Matthew 13

The Purpose of the Parables

10Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Then I highly recommend that you be one of those who has ears to hear.

"For I was hungry and you did not feed Me.
I was thirsty, and you did not give Me drink.
I was a stranger, and you did not welcome Me,
naked and you did not clothe Me.
Sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.
...
Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.
"

-CryptoLutheran
 
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rockytopva

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18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. . - Matthew 15

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. - Matthew 5:28

I would say then that there is no difference...

Between the murderer and they that hate in their hearts
Between the covetous and the thief
Between the rapist and he that watches inappropriate content

But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. - 1 Samuel 16:7

A young associate preacher preached a sermon that covered this topic well...

 
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classicalhero

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No true scottsman fallacy at its finest
How do you define some who is a Muslim? Don't words have meaning any more. But the problem with the so called fallacy is that it is comparng what a national or ethnic group might do, which is different from how a certain ideology should work.

Would Jesus support a war that has killed over 500,000 Middle Eastern people?
What about the hundreds of thousands killed by Hussien and don't forget that most of the people killed in the Iraq war were killed by insurgent, those who were never part of the Iraqi population in the first place, so in doing so you are actually proving his point.
 
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Calvinist Dark Lord

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Are you serious? Does the Westboro Baptist Church have the same version of Jesus as the Lutheran Church?
Yes, they do. Their view on the basics was by any reasonable standard within the bounds of orthodox Christianity. Their view on peripheral issues was out of balance, and that made their praxis reprehensible.

This assumes of course that Westboro Baptist Church was even a legitimate church in the minds of it's congregation (mostly Fred Phelps immediate family), or a money making scam based on litigation --most if not all of Phelps family members were litigation lawyers. They made quite a bit of money filing discrimination and civil rights lawsuits against those who opposed them.
 
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Smidlee

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Sorry, but I was indeed Christian, Catholic to be exact, felt the whole Holy spirit thing, etc. Then one day I didn't feel it anymore and started asking questions. Those questions lead me eventually to where I am today.
The Good Shepard doesn't lose sheep.

Matthew 7: 22 " Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 : And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: Depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

John 10:3-5 " To him the porter openeth and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him; for they know his voice. and a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him; for they know not the voice of strangers.
 
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katherine2001

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Then I highly recommend that you be one of those who has ears to hear.

"For I was hungry and you did not feed Me.
I was thirsty, and you did not give Me drink.
I was a stranger, and you did not welcome Me,
naked and you did not clothe Me.
Sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.
...
Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.
"

-CryptoLutheran

And let's not forget the example of how we are to treat others set by our Savior, Jesus Christ. Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan, when His people hated the Samaritans and would have nothing to do with them (I wonder if He wouldn't substitute Muslim for Samaritan if He was walking this earth today, because there are Muslims that would give the shirt off their back to someone who needed it), and He prayed to His Father from the cross that God would have mercy on those who put Him up on that cross to die the horrible death He died. Jesus also taught us to love our enemies, bless them and do not curse them, and to do good to them. He also lived what He taught. We all fall and fail to do what He taught, but when we do, we should be able to see that what we've done is wrong, repent of it, and ask His strength to get back on the right path.
 
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katherine2001

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The Good Shepard doesn't lose sheep.

Matthew 7: 22 " Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 : And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: Depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

John 10:3-5 " To him the porter openeth and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him; for they know his voice. and a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him; for they know not the voice of strangers.

Smidlee, Christ is talking about those who call themselves Christians who totally fail to actually do what He taught.
 
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katherine2001

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Then I highly recommend that you be one of those who has ears to hear.

"For I was hungry and you did not feed Me.
I was thirsty, and you did not give Me drink.
I was a stranger, and you did not welcome Me,
naked and you did not clothe Me.
Sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.
...
Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.
"

-CryptoLutheran

Christ has warned us about what He will be judging us on during the Last Judgment--may we all have ears to hear. We will have no excuses if we haven't tried to live by that, as He will know (and will be able to tell us) exactly how many times we read that passage and totally ignored it because it didn't fit what we believe. As one priest said, once we have read a Scripture, we are accountable for obeying it because we are accountable for what we know. Also, Jesus warned us that those who didn't know will get a lighter beating than those who know. We who know Christ will have no excuses--none.
 
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pat34lee

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Using a double standard that Islam is a violent and evil religion because of the most violent and extremist elements of that religion while saying that Christians can't be terrorists because the most violent and extremist elements of our religion don't count is simply speaking out of both sides of one's mouth, being a hypocrite.

This is moral equivalence, and it is a farce. Worse coming from a Christian who should
know better.

When is the last time you heard one Christian say that God told him to kill people?
The last time that thousands of Christians cheered because an innocent person or
group of people was killed in the name of God, independent of governments?

Mohammed was a terrorist, murderer, oath-breaker an all-around evil person.
Those who follow him act like him. The only similarity to true Christians is that
the larger group of followers makes up their own religion.
 
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Gentle Lamb

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For people to defend Islam, they have to understand what Islam is. What is Islam? Here I have posted actual verses from the Quran (read post #9) about what a Muslim will do if they are to be obedient to Allah and his laws, and yet still people moan and cry and say that I am lumping a whole group of people together and painting them with one brush. Yet I have attacked no one, I have only defined true Islam for what it is. In the OP the article author defines true Islam for what it is. The article author also defines true Christianity for what it is. The article author does not attack anyone, just puts out definitions. So what and who are we defending, when the verses from the Quran clearly tell the believer to wage war on the infidel and to kill the infidel wherever the infidel is found in order that the believer might be a true follower of Islam? What and who are we defending when we defend this murderous ideology? Again, it is the ideology itself, the religio-political system, because you cannot separate Islam from Shariah law, the two go hand in hand. Again, I have attacked no one, but am laying bare Islam for what it is at its core. What is there to defend? If you do not believe in Islam, then you are the infidel. If you do not believe in Islam and will not fight and kill the infidel then these verses here apply to you and all of your loved ones. So what can you defend about this?

The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...


but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.



Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."



Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.



Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').


Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.



Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"


Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

Jesus says:

John 15:12

12“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 5:38-48

38“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,h let him have your cloak as well. 41And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers,i what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 22:34-40

34But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
 
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Gentle Lamb

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