“The Innocence of Muslims.” Are Not So Innocent

L

Lovely Lane

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The clip of a third rate film used by a Egyptian sheik caused a few to seek and kill Americans at our embassy. There must be much more to this story, when at the same time Israeli president condemns Obama about his stand on Iran, and this attack happens on the anniversary of 9/11. But that would be a conspiracy theory, not fact. Could it be that Muslims are easily led to commit violence by a clip of a video that was on youtube since July?
A controversial Cairo television host, Sheikh Khaled Abdallah, aired clips from the video on an Islamic-focused television station on Saturday, and the same video clips were posted online on Monday. U.S. ambassador to Libya, 3 other Americans killed in Benghazi - The Washington Post
The director of the film that provoked the fury has gone into hiding but has been remained defiant branding Islam a “cancer”.

Sam Bacile, 56, a California real estate developer who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew, directed and wrote the two-hour film about the Prophet Mohammed.
The film was allegedly produced by the infamous Koran-burning American preacher Terry Jones.
A trailer for the film, which is understood to be called either The Innocence of Muslims or Mohammed, Prophet of the Muslims, was first uploaded to YouTube in July to little attention.

Innocence of Muslims film director goes into hiding - World - News - Evening Standard


Let us remember the U.S. Ambassador to Libya John Christopher Stevens and the three other Americans that were killed.
 
D

Dieselman

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If you offend Muslims by saying that it is a violent religion, they will kill you. What can you expect from a religion that commands a 15 year old rape victim be stoned to death because she's no longer a virgin? The best thing to do is to live your life so that when it ends, you go to Heaven. There will be no Muslims there so you won't have to deal with them any more.
 
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L

Lovely Lane

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Sheikh Khaled Abdallah is a fundamentalist Muslim who uses television to spread his message. Very similar to what America's fundamentalist (religious and secular) do here. He is much critical (I would say hateful) of the Coptic Christians.

Odd, that this sheik links the historical commitment of US to Israel to use as hate propaganda to his audience, but fails to speak of how US has assisted the Egyptians over many decades. But then again, this sheik seems to not like any form of government, unless of course, it is one totally of Islamic theocratic control.

No, I do not believe all Muslim's kill, but do believe many sects within the Islamic religion would at a drop of the hat, especially when concerning Christians and US policy in support of Israel.

A good example of peaceful demonstration and diplomacy with an joyous ending was the recent release of Iranian pastor Youcef Nadarkhani
. Evangelicals Rejoice Over Youcef Nadarkhani's Release; Pray for 'More Outcomes Like This'

Real 'persecution' of Christians can be found through-out the world, however, when men such as Sheikh Khaled Abdallah can whip up a small ban to cause death and destruction only demonstrates to me that the forces of good and evil are continually battling and there seems to be no end.

Now, this event will more than likely be used as US political fodder this week as to something no one expected or planned for, such as the incident on Sept 11, 2001.
Evil men do evil things. And it is especially a horrible shame when done in the name of religion.
 
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B

bbbbbbb

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It is not merely a small clip of a third-rate film that caused this violent outburst. It is a generational system and culture in which Judaism and Christianity have been portrayed as Satanic in the extreme. To this day the Egyptian news agency Al Jazeera "reports" news of any and all atrocities (or blasphemies) committed by non-Muslims against Muslims, but virtually never mentions anything committed by Muslims against non-Muslims or even Muslims against Muslims.

I once knew a Turkish man who was high educated and was studying in a post-graduate program at an American university. He was a member of the Sunni sect of Islam which is extremely moderate in its views. At the time I knew him the atrocities of Saddam Hussein were being exposed in the media. He asserted with complete assurance that Islam was demonstrably superior to Christianity because the history of Christianity is rife with Christians slaughtering other Christians, but in the entire history of Islam not a single Muslim had ever killed another Muslim. This had been drilled into his head since birth. I asked him about Sunnis killing Shiite Muslims and he said that Shiites were not Muslims. Fair enough, I said. What about Saddam Hussein (a Sunni) killing other Sunnis in Iraq. At that he went silent and refused to imagine that such a thing could have happened.
 
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Harry3142

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It was reported on the news today that the attack on the U. S. embassy, and the killing of the ambassador and three others inside it, had been planned. The protest was not the cause of their deaths. Instead, it was a diversionary tactic that was used to draw attention away from the real attackers so that they could succeed in penetrating the embassy's security.
 
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L

Lovely Lane

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It was reported on the news today that the attack on the U. S. embassy, and the killing of the ambassador and three others inside it, had been planned. The protest was not the cause of their deaths. Instead, it was a diversionary tactic that was used to draw attention away from the real attackers so that they could succeed in penetrating the embassy's security.
Well, it didn't take much to penetrate the lack of security. And the slow or no response from the Libyan government to act.
 
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miamited

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Hi all,

I'm sorry, and I imagine there will be some who disagree, but these tactics that Mr. Jones in Florida uses and the group at Westboro use are one and the same.

GOD HAS NEVER CALLED US TO ATTACK OTHER FAITHS, RELIGIONS OR BELIEFS! NEVER!!

We are commanded to teach the truth in love. We don't have to tell people that Muhammed is a false prophet to say that Jesus is the Son of God. We don't have to attack islam to say that Jesus is the only way of salvation. All we are called to do is teach the truth in love. We are to be respectful of all people. We are to be considerate of all people. We are to teach the truth in love.

Too many 'christians' have decided that the way to teach the truth is to attack the lies! NO!!!! Just teach the truth in love and leave it to the one who is responsible for opening the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf to do His job.

It is a disgrace to God that the Westboro group tries to use such tactics as engender hate among people to preach Jesus. It is a disgrace to God that this film created to attack islam is considered a right way to teach others about Jesus. The Scriptures say that those who are against us should have nothing bad to say about us because of our love and gentleness, and yet we, through tactics such as this give them plenty of bad things to say about us.

I'M SORRY, BUT I BELIEVE ALL SUCH PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD WITHIN THEM, BECAUSE HE WOULDN'T ALLOW SUCH AN IDEA TO GROW AND COME TO FRUITION AMONG THOSE WHOM HE INDWELLS.
 
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seeingeyes

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Hi all,

I'm sorry, and I imagine there will be some who disagree, but these tactics that Mr. Jones in Florida uses and the group at Westboro use are one and the same.

GOD HAS NEVER CALLED US TO ATTACK OTHER FAITHS, RELIGIONS OR BELIEFS! NEVER!!

We are commanded to teach the truth in love. We don't have to tell people that Muhammed is a false prophet to say that Jesus is the Son of God. We don't have to attack islam to say that Jesus is the only way of salvation. All we are called to do is teach the truth in love. We are to be respectful of all people. We are to be considerate of all people. We are to teach the truth in love.

Too many 'christians' have decided that the way to teach the truth is to attack the lies! NO!!!! Just teach the truth in love and leave it to the one who is responsible for opening the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf to do His job.

It is a disgrace to God that the Westboro group tries to use such tactics as engender hate among people to preach Jesus. It is a disgrace to God that this film created to attack islam is considered a right way to teach others about Jesus. The Scriptures say that those who are against us should have nothing bad to say about us because of our love and gentleness, and yet we, through tactics such as this give them plenty of bad things to say about us.

I'M SORRY, BUT I BELIEVE ALL SUCH PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD WITHIN THEM, BECAUSE HE WOULDN'T ALLOW SUCH AN IDEA TO GROW AND COME TO FRUITION AMONG THOSE WHOM HE INDWELLS.

Truth!

Preach it, brother. :)
 
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Paxton25

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Proverbs 6:16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that hurry to run to evil, 19 a lying witness who testifies falsely, and one who sows discord in a family.

Muslims, Jews, and Christians have blood on their hands today. Unfortunately, it will be Christians in the Middle East who had nothing to do with the making of this film who will pay the wages of sin with their lives.
 
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miamited

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Proverbs 6:16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that hurry to run to evil, 19 a lying witness who testifies falsely, and one who sows discord in a family.

Muslims, Jews, and Christians have blood on their hands today. Unfortunately, it will be Christians in the Middle East who had nothing to do with the making of this film who will pay the wages of sin with their lives.

Hi paxton,

That's right. This is, I believe, exactly why God encourages us to live at peace with our neighbors. Why He encourages us to speak the truth in love. Encourages us to be respectful and considerate of others as we seek to tell them the truth about Him.

Man's heart is wicked, who can know it. When anyone, in the name of our God and our Savior, attempts to 'overthrow' some false religion by attacking that faith, it is a normal and reasonable and should be expected response, from the many of that faith to protect and stand by it. After all, they have given their life to following this belief system. They have adopted a worldview that says, "This is how things really are." They have been indoctrinated and steeped in all that that faith teaches. People just don't spend hours and hours of their time practicing some system of faith if they don't belive it!!

So, intead of working to teach them the truth of God we try to attack what they do believe. Getting in their faces and denouncing what they have given their life to believe and you don't think you're not going to work up the ire of those people. Oh foolish man.

My encouragement: Put away unfettered patriotism. The children of God are not citizens of any nation on this earth. Our nation and our allegiance is to the new Jerusalem, the city built by the very hands of God that will come down from heaven adorned like a beautiful bride. I appreciate having been born in the United States and as earthly nations go, it is a reasonably good place to live, but it's far from perfect, friend. The United States is more like Sodom and Gomarrah than they are themselves. We are a wicked nation of wicked people and I do not rejoice or give my allegiance to such an earthly authority. However, I do follow God's commands to live and honor with respect the earthly authorities that have been placed over me. I will serve if asked to serve, I will obey if asked to obey, so long as it does not go against God's instructions.

I strive to be just like Daniel in my patriotism. Daniel spoke with the highest respect and regard to the king of Babylon. Daniel always treated the king with honor and worked within the confines of the laws of Babylon until those laws began to affect what he knew were God's commands. He would not bow down to the golden statue of the king even though it was the law. He would not give up his thrice daily praying and seeking God's knowledge through the Scriptures, even though it had been legally banned to worship any other god. Yet, even through all of this, Daniel took his punishment, trusted in God and when it was all over, Daniel was again the same respectful man of God towards the earthly authorities put over him.

You see, Daniel also knew that King Nebechudnezzer was put over the people of Isreal by God's design and decree. The king was where he was because of the very will of God. I believe similarly that the earthly rulers of our earthly dominions are there by the will of God. This doesn't make them godly people. King Nebedchudnezzer was not a godly man, nor was Pharoah of Egypt, who God also put over His people, a godly man. So, it is a careful and important distinction that while God may establish earthly dominions and authorities, the kings and rulers of those earthly dominions and authorities are not necessarily godly people.

However, born again believers are commanded to live in peace and with respect towards others. We are asked to teach the truth of God in love and God never, ever, ever asks of us to be argumentative or disrespectful of what others believe.

Will people die? Sure they will! People have been dying for at least 6,000 years and will continue to. Godly people have often died at the hands of the ungodly. Jesus would be the paramount example of this, but there are many others. Most all of the 12 died a martyr's death. We can certainly find ample evidence that 'christians' have been martyred in some fashion and number throughout the ages since. Why would anyone even think to presume that our age would be any different? Quite frankly, as I read and understand the Scriptures, I would expect to see more and more christians martyred for their faith than less and less.

One of the 'signs' that God explains to the souls waiting for His wrath to be released upon the world is that the number to have been martyred, just as they had, had not yet reached its fill. That same writing of John explains that Satan is now, at this very moment upon the earth, attacking and persecuting those who hold to the gospel of Jesus.

Pray for those who are born again and seeking to also spread, in peace and love, that message of how others can be born again. Pray for those of God's children who stand everyday at death's door proclaiming the truth of God. Pray for them, friend, and strive to be one of them. And then finally, trust in what we are told in Psalm 1. "God watches over the way of the righteous." Not a one of His children will be put to death or suffer that God is not fully aware of and in charge of.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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mindlight

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The clip of a third rate film used by a Egyptian sheik caused a few to seek and kill Americans at our embassy. There must be much more to this story, when at the same time Israeli president condemns Obama about his stand on Iran, and this attack happens on the anniversary of 9/11. But that would be a conspiracy theory, not fact. Could it be that Muslims are easily led to commit violence by a clip of a video that was on youtube since July?

Yes the real questions have to do with why the anger on the Arab Street can be so easily manipulated by extremists to hurt Americans, Christians and Jews.

Obama has been weak on the freedom of religion in the region excluding these reports from the human rights reporting. One has to ask if his softly softly approach is working or merely encouraging a new confidence on the Arab Street that is counterproductive to Western interests and the wellbeing of religious minorities in the region. I had hoped that this new freedom of expression would allow the Arabs to work through their demons- but now I wonder how painful that process might be for th rest of us. Should we be seeking the overthrow of Assad for instance when the rebel extremists that are seeking this are of the ilk that murder ambassadors & Christians and Assad seems to be the one protecting the Christians. Was Putin and the Russians right after all on this?



Let us remember the U.S. Ambassador to Libya John Christopher Stevens and the three other Americans that were killed.
Absolutely :)
 
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mindlight

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Sheikh Khaled Abdallah is a fundamentalist Muslim who uses television to spread his message. Very similar to what America's fundamentalist (religious and secular) do here. He is much critical (I would say hateful) of the Coptic Christians.

Odd, that this sheik links the historical commitment of US to Israel to use as hate propaganda to his audience, but fails to speak of how US has assisted the Egyptians over many decades. But then again, this sheik seems to not like any form of government, unless of course, it is one totally of Islamic theocratic control.

No, I do not believe all Muslim's kill, but do believe many sects within the Islamic religion would at a drop of the hat, especially when concerning Christians and US policy in support of Israel.

A good example of peaceful demonstration and diplomacy with an joyous ending was the recent release of Iranian pastor Youcef Nadarkhani
. Evangelicals Rejoice Over Youcef Nadarkhani's Release; Pray for 'More Outcomes Like This'

Real 'persecution' of Christians can be found through-out the world, however, when men such as Sheikh Khaled Abdallah can whip up a small ban to cause death and destruction only demonstrates to me that the forces of good and evil are continually battling and there seems to be no end.

Now, this event will more than likely be used as US political fodder this week as to something no one expected or planned for, such as the incident on Sept 11, 2001.
Evil men do evil things. And it is especially a horrible shame when done in the name of religion.

This kind of evil violence does seem to be especially prevalent in the Muslim world and the rise of freedom of expression on the internet /social networking sites have allowed the rapid dissemination of provocative comment and also access to various rubbish films on YouTube..

One wonders if characters such as this Sheikh Khaled Abdallah are the symbols of a new and powerful trend in the region. The consequence is that the Christians are leaving or finally waking up to what the potential costs of being a believer are. The help that America provided Libyans is conveniently forgotten in the murder of its ambassdaor. The aid and help in the Egyptian struggle is also conveniently forgotten. These guys are friends of conveninece their real agenda is the global dominance of a C7th form of Islam.
 
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What gets me is when people say that Allah and God are the same being.

Qu'ran 19: 88 to 92
[19.88] And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son.
[19.89] Certainly you have made an abominable assertion
[19.90] The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces,
[19.91] That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God.
[19.92] And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.
The Koran

Allah is NOT God.
 
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mindlight

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It is not merely a small clip of a third-rate film that caused this violent outburst. It is a generational system and culture in which Judaism and Christianity have been portrayed as Satanic in the extreme. To this day the Egyptian news agency Al Jazeera "reports" news of any and all atrocities (or blasphemies) committed by non-Muslims against Muslims, but virtually never mentions anything committed by Muslims against non-Muslims or even Muslims against Muslims.

I once knew a Turkish man who was high educated and was studying in a post-graduate program at an American university. He was a member of the Sunni sect of Islam which is extremely moderate in its views. At the time I knew him the atrocities of Saddam Hussein were being exposed in the media. He asserted with complete assurance that Islam was demonstrably superior to Christianity because the history of Christianity is rife with Christians slaughtering other Christians, but in the entire history of Islam not a single Muslim had ever killed another Muslim. This had been drilled into his head since birth. I asked him about Sunnis killing Shiite Muslims and he said that Shiites were not Muslims. Fair enough, I said. What about Saddam Hussein (a Sunni) killing other Sunnis in Iraq. At that he went silent and refused to imagine that such a thing could have happened.

Not sure commitment to the Ummah is a wholly rational thing. It is about my side right or wrong.
 
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mindlight

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Well, it didn't take much to penetrate the lack of security. And the slow or no response from the Libyan government to act.

Yes that and the job of ambassador in Yemen are dangerous postings. maybe you should be allowed Marines in these embassies but then I suppose an incident of this sort would be further magnified by the numbers of deaths in the event of a storming.
 
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GOD HAS NEVER CALLED US TO ATTACK OTHER FAITHS, RELIGIONS OR BELIEFS! NEVER!!

Is that entirely true?

The invasion of Canaan was about false gods. The slaughter of those who worshipped the golden calf is another example. The massacre of the prophets of Baal and Asherah on mount Moriah is another example. The burning of the religious symbols of the occupying power by Gideon is another....

In the NT the shift is towards a more positive focus on sharing and living out the good news of Jesus but Paul is clear in his address to the Athenians that there is only one true God and he debates extensively with idol worshippers and people trapped by false philosophies and traditions. He provokes considerable anger in various idol worshippers and is stoned almost to death for his comments in the market place. There is a degree of gentleness and respect in this witness that was not there in the OT theocracy ,I suppose, but one can envisage societies where Christians make the rules and blasphemy and idolatry are legitmately outlawed and these laws are enforced by the authorities given the power of the sword (Rom 13 v 1-7).
 
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mindlight

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Unfortunately, it will be Christians in the Middle East who had nothing to do with the making of this film who will pay the wages of sin with their lives.

Very true and another reason why its time for them to get out. This anger in the Middle East can only result in total destruction in the long run and the Christians do not want to be there when that happens.
 
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mindlight

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What gets me is when people say that Allah and God are the same being.

Qu'ran 19: 88 to 92
[19.88] And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son.
[19.89] Certainly you have made an abominable assertion
[19.90] The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces,
[19.91] That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God.
[19.92] And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.
The Koran

Allah is NOT God.

The god described in the Koran is very different from the God described in the Bible. The Trinity, the nature and divinity of Jesus and his death on the cross for us being primary examples. But I believe that a great many Muslims are in fact zealous for the one True God. They simply do not know Him. They seek to defend his honour but do not understand His love. They seek to earn his favour but have not received His grace. I understand how offended they get when the things of God are not honoured in the way they would expect. In such a society the wages of such sin are clearly death and the violence in one respect is an attempt to protect Gods honour. This film actually raised extremely disturbing questions about the character of Mohammed and the actual sequence of events that occurred in his life and his real motivations. BUt it did so in such a crass and insensitive manner that it will achieve nothing positive and indeed as has proven the case quite the opposite.
 
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woodpecker

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remember to pray for these lost Muslims that have killed our US citizens.

They are enclosed in a society, and governmental system that does not allow them to know that the majority of American/Christians are not like the folks who made this hateful film.

The Muslims in the Eastern world do not know anything about Americans other than what the evil governments tell them, they are taught to hate from the moment they are born, they are ignorant to the truth that many Americans want their troops to come home, that we do not agree that we should policing the world.

They see us as an evil people who want to take over the world.

love our enemies, and pray blessing upon them, that they may find the true God, Jesus our savior.
 
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