“Non-Christians Are Like Animals in spirit”(quote)???

[Yusuphhai]

On this Sunday in Beijing China I heard a preaching of a church of Protestantism. The preacher said:”The difference between Christians and Non-Christians is like the difference between Human and Animal.

I was very astonished. And communicated with an Elder of that church about this issue privately. He insisted that the authority of the preaching platform was given by the Holy Spirit and could not be doubted, and also this opinion (“Non-Christians Are Like Animals in spirit&#8221 was from the authority. He said the preacher meant the “Like-Animal” refered to the ones like Pharisee, but I told him:” No, the preacher refered to ‘ALL Non-Christians’.”

I personally think one of the worst tragedy of mankind is that some people think all the others outside their circle as “NOT HUMAN BEING in spirit”.

I feel weak. Maybe I will leave that meeting soon.

more discussion about this Issue:

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[Avodat]

It is not a Protestant doctrine and I have never heard it expressed in over 30 years of preaching, and 20 of those as a minister. There is, however, a view that arises from Mark chapter 7 & 15 that could be seen by some as relating the fact that Gentiles are, or are like, dogs. There are also other places in The Book where dogs are likened to the people of the nations. Maybe the preacher was thinking along these lines but placed a wrong emphasis on it? Not sure I would stay there if you cannot ask about the correctness of the teaching!

 

[visionary]

On this Sunday in Beijing China I heard a preaching of a church of Protestantism. The preacher said:”The difference between Christians and Non-Christians is like the difference between Human and Animal.

I was very astonished. And communicated with an Elder of that church about this issue privately. He insisted that the authority of the preaching platform was given by the Holy Spirit and could not be doubted, and also this opinion (“Non-Christians Are Like Animals in spirit”) was from the authority. He said the preacher meant the “Like-Animal” refered to the ones like Pharisee, but I told him:” No, the preacher refered to ‘ALL Non-Christians’.”

I personally think one of the worst tragedy of mankind is that some people think all the others outside their circle as “NOT HUMAN BEING in spirit”.

I feel weak. Maybe I will leave that meeting soon.

more discussion about this Issue:

Society > Society > Ethics & Morality forum

Theology (Christians Only) > Theology (Christian Only) > Christian Philosophy & Ethics forum

I have seen animals pray, keep the sabbath, and do what God required of them. Which is more than some Christians. Think about it, it was the animals that were obedient and got into the Noah's Ark. The animals in the shelter bowed down and worship Yeshua which is more than we can say for the entire village of Bethlehem.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Yeah both Mankind and Animal should not be insulted optionally. We should treat them kindly.

Last night I dreamed some ones wanted to put me in the presence of a Judgment and condemned I should be put into hell, which made me very scared. I just called “Israel” in my mind, then I felt very safe and peaceful.

 

[Michaelismyname]

ok -its all sounding just a wee bit weird .
i think this is getting lost in translation - well for me any way.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

On this Sunday in Beijing China I heard a preaching of a church of Protestantism. The preacher said:”The difference between Christians and Non-Christians is like the difference between Human and Animal.

I was very astonished. And communicated with an Elder of that church about this issue privately. He insisted that the authority of the preaching platform was given by the Holy Spirit and could not be doubted, and also this opinion (“Non-Christians Are Like Animals in spirit”) was from the authority. He said the preacher meant the “Like-Animal” refered to the ones like Pharisee, but I told him:” No, the preacher refered to ‘ALL Non-Christians’.”

I personally think one of the worst tragedy of mankind is that some people think all the others outside their circle as “NOT HUMAN BEING in spirit”.

Not certain of what the full context of the dialouge was....but in some ways, the ways the spirit of a regenerated/saved man operates is radically different from those of the unsaved. In line with what Psalm 49 notes when discussing how man is like a brute beast apart from the intervention of the Lord---for even though all men are made in the image of God, man is truly savage apart from the Spirit of the Lord controlling him/operating in His life.

Psalm 49:1
For all can see that the wise die,
that the foolish and the senseless also perish,
leaving their wealth to others.
11 Their tombs will remain their houses[b] forever,
their dwellings for endless generations,
though they had[c] named lands after themselves.
12 People, despite their wealth, do not endure;
they are like the beasts that perish.

13 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves,
and of their followers, who approve their sayings.[d]
14 They are like sheep and are destined to die;
death will be their shepherd
(but the upright will prevail over them in the morning).
Their forms will decay in the grave,
far from their princely mansions.
15 But God will redeem me from the realm of the dead;
he will surely take me to himself.
16 Do not be overawed when others grow rich,
when the splendor of their houses increases;
17 for they will take nothing with them when they die,
their splendor will not descend with them.
18 Though while they live they count themselves blessed—
and people praise you when you prosper—
19 they will join those who have gone before them,
who will never again see the light of life.

20 People who have wealth but lack understanding
are like the beasts that perish.

​

Beasts of the field cannot and are not meant to hope for a resurrection/future glory since it was not meant for them....but those who are believers are different.

 

[Lulav]

Yeah both Mankind and Animal should not be insulted optionally. We should treat them kindly.

Last night I dreamed some ones wanted to put me in the presence of a Judgment and condemned I should be put into hell, which made me very scared. I just called “Israel” in my mind, then I felt very safe and peaceful.

Did you mean you called out to Yeshua?

 

[Lulav]

I have seen animals pray, keep the sabbath, and do what God required of them. Which is more than some Christians. Think about it, it was the animals that were obedient and got into the Noah's Ark. The animals in the shelter bowed down and worship Yeshua which is more than we can say for the entire village of Bethlehem.

I think you are thinking about the Christian idea of the nativity. It says no where in the bible that animals worshiped Yeshua.

Christmas Animal Legends

• Animals are able to speak at midnight on Christmas Eve

• Cattle kneel on Christmas to worship baby Jesus

• Indian lore believes that deer kneel on Christmas night and look at the sky in praise of the Great Spirit

• An English legend holds to the belief that bees would gather on Christmas Eve to hum a hymn

• Tabby cats were given the stamp of the letter "M" on their heads, as thanks from Mary for comforting baby Jesus after his birth

 

[Lulav]

On this Sunday in Beijing China I heard a preaching of a church of Protestantism. The preacher said:”The difference between Christians and Non-Christians is like the difference between Human and Animal.

I was very astonished. And communicated with an Elder of that church about this issue privately. He insisted that the authority of the preaching platform was given by the Holy Spirit and could not be doubted, and also this opinion (“Non-Christians Are Like Animals in spirit”) was from the authority. He said the preacher meant the “Like-Animal” refered to the ones like Pharisee, but I told him:” No, the preacher refered to ‘ALL Non-Christians’.”

I personally think one of the worst tragedy of mankind is that some people think all the others outside their circle as “NOT HUMAN BEING in spirit”.

I feel weak. Maybe I will leave that meeting soon.

more discussion about this Issue:

Society > Society > Ethics & Morality forum

Theology (Christians Only) > Theology (Christian Only) > Christian Philosophy & Ethics forum

Actually I've seen animals, especially dogs, and atheists act a lot better than Christians. I wouldn't let it worry you, as was said, perhaps he was misunderstanding due to language barrier. Nations are represented symbolically as animals in the Bible, that is true, but not individuals that I know of. We are all born the same, but we have a choice to follow or rebel.

 

[yedida]

Actually I've seen animals, especially dogs, and atheists act a lot better than Christians. I wouldn't let it worry you, as was said, perhaps he was misunderstanding due to language barrier. Nations are represented symbolically as animals in the Bible, that is true, but not individuals that I know of. We are all born the same, but we have a choice to follow or rebel.

I think the whole idea that gentiles or non-Jews are like animals is where Yeshua was talking to the woman at the well and she called herself no better than a dog. People don't need much to build a doctrine....

 

[Lulav]

Yes, there is that.

 

[Avodat]

I think the whole idea that gentiles or non-Jews are like animals is where Yeshua was talking to the woman at the well and she called herself no better than a dog. People don't need much to build a doctrine....

I am sure there are no mainstream Christian doctrines relating to animals worshipping G_d or in other way related to what the OP says. My earlier posts only shows where the preacher MAY have got the idea, along with nations being likened to animals (mostly dogs in a derogatory sense) in the first half of The Book. Having said that a number of congregations, for some reason I don't understand, have pet services where the pets are blessed etc.

 

[yedida]

I am sure there are no mainstream Christian doctrines relating to animals worshipping G_d or in other way related to what the OP says. My earlier posts only shows where the preacher MAY have got the idea, along with nations being likened to animals (mostly dogs in a derogatory sense) in the first half of The Book. Having said that a number of congregations, for some reason I don't understand, have pet services where the pets are blessed etc.

No, I haven't heard of any either. I just stated that it doesn't take much for some to build doctrines (a general comment).
I'm not sure I'd go so far as blessing services for pets but you'll never convince me that we won't have the love of animals in our "forever." They are a part of God's creation. I don't think He's gonna wipe them off the face of whatever we'll spend eternity on and out of our memories. Naw.....

 

[Lulav]

Yes, there are these kinds of things, I've seen them in my area, it is a specific day they call the Blessing of the Animals. Both domestic and pets. I believe it is a Catholic thing, connected to St. Francis who is depicted in statues surrounded by animals. I think he is the 'patron saint' of them. It is in fact this time of year it is done. I see that other denominations are doing it as well. Some only do it on even numbered years such as this one is. In my area it will be on Oct 7th, a Sunday, which is the last day of Sukkot, wonder if that was planned or not?

 

[yedida]

I am sure there are no mainstream Christian doctrines relating to animals worshipping G_d or in other way related to what the OP says. My earlier posts only shows where the preacher MAY have got the idea, along with nations being likened to animals (mostly dogs in a derogatory sense) in the first half of The Book. Having said that a number of congregations, for some reason I don't understand, have pet services where the pets are blessed etc.

Now the south does have the snake handlers (mostly Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama)! They don't worship the snakes, rattlers, but they handle them to prove their faith - using that verse in Mark about handling snakes and drinking poison....(A good example of an entire doctrine & denomination built upon one obscure passage!)

 

[Avodat]

Now the south does have the snake handlers (mostly Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama)! They don't worship the snakes, rattlers, but they handle them to prove their faith - using that verse in Mark about handling snakes and drinking poison....(A good example of an entire doctrine & denomination built upon one obscure passage!)

Sorry, I thought we were talking about animals worshipping G_d and that non-believers are like animals in Scripture, and whether there was a doctrine that specifically taught that particular viewpoint.

I know there are various animals in The Book that play important parts - the talking donkey is a good example - and the bits about children playing with snakes in Isaiah etc etc from which all sorts of odd views arise - but that was not what I was addressing. All sorts of oddities get made into localised doctrines, not least the name it and claim it doctrines, but I'm not sure we can claim those as mainstream Protestant Christian doctrines.

 

[yedida]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about animals worshipping G_d and that non-believers are like animals in Scripture, and whether there was a doctrine that specifically taught that particular viewpoint.

I know there are various animals in The Book that play important parts - the talking donkey is a good example - and the bits about children playing with snakes in Isaiah etc etc from which all sorts of odd views arise - but that was not what I was addressing. All sorts of oddities get made into localised doctrines, not least the name it and claim it doctrines, but I'm not sure we can claim those as mainstream Protestant Christian doctrines.

I believe that the "name it/claim it" folks are definitely mainstream, they belong to the WoF group.
Worshipping animals, you're right. I don't know of any. Just the one group that uses the snakes - strange folks, for sure.
Back to the OP, I do know that there are even funeral homes that will handle pets, even though they are funeral homes for humans! I've taken calls from pet owners for the directors to come pick up the deceased pet! (Generally, it's for cremation and not actual burial though.) I fully believe that there will be animals in "heaven." I don't know (actually doubt) if they will be "beloved pets that have passed on," but I do believe there will be those types of animals.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Did you mean you called out to Yeshua?

At that time, I was just looking for a safe way, so "Israel" was in my mind, strangely not the word "Yeshua".” Israel is the bride of Yeshua, they are in one.

And I met the elder of that church yesterday, but did not discuss this Issue. He was very humble and adopted a conciliatory attitude, worth me learning. I also confessed I was not polite enough to him. We forgave each other.

In their Bible learning group, I introduced a little about MJ.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yeah both Mankind and Animal should not be insulted optionally. We should treat them kindly.
.

All of God's creation was not to be taken lightly or for granted, just as mankind is. There was another thread elsewhere (here )that discussed the issue wonderfully when examining differing aspects of the Creation the Lord wanted to redeem. ..all of it being within one of the concepts within Christendom known as Panentheism (the idea that all of creation is sustained by the Lord even though he is seperate from it---and due to his sustaining it, all of it is to be treated with respect). Throughout history, especially in Eastern CHristianity, many believers have advocated for Panentheism and on how how the classical model of theism isn't enough when considering creation...for the Lord sustains it and is OUTSIDE of it entirely ( more shared here and here#1, #23 , #38 , #91 and #92 ):

Sadly, a lot of people have the mindset that animals are without souls or spirits and therefore they are not worthy of respect...and many assume that to say animals have souls/spirits automatically places them on the same level as believers/mankind in all aspects, thus leading to their rejection of the thought. But the scriptures seem to say differently MULTIPLE time. Even in regards to the trees:

1 Chronicles 16:33
Let the trees of the forest sing, let them sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.
1 Chronicles 16:32-34

Psalm 96:12
Let the fields be jubilant, and everything in them; let all the trees of the forest sing for joy.
Psalm 96:11-13

Isaiah 44:23
Sing for joy, you heavens, for the LORD has done this; shout aloud, you earth beneath. Burst into song, you mountains, you forests and all your trees, for the LORD has redeemed Jacob, he displays his glory in Israel.
Isaiah 44:22-24
​

Whereas some are of the mindset that animals are unimportant/lifeless, others are of the mindset that their having a spirit indicates a value beyond the physical. For what makes man different from the animals is not that he has a soul, but that he is made in the image of God (Gen. 1:26-27). The words "let us make" uses the same Hebrew word for "make" found in Ex. 20:4 in which God commands us to "not make" any graven image. In Psalm 78:50 we find an example of the usage of “soul” as “life” when the writer said in speaking of the people of Egypt (who tried in vain to prevent the Israelites from leaving their country’s slavery) that God “spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence.” In this instance, the word “soul” (Hebrew nephesh) is used to denote the physical life of humans. But in Genesis 1:20,24, the identical Hebrew word is employed to speak of animals as “living creatures” (Hebrew nephesh hayyah). In this sense, then, yes, it is correct to say that animals have “souls”—since the word soul means only physical life. In responding to the question, “Do animals have souls?,” McCord wrote in his correspondence work "“Do Animals Have Souls?,” that "the word soul, nephesh, only means ‘breath,’ as in Genesis 1:20 (ASV), ‘Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures,’ nephesh hayyah, literally, ‘living soul.’”

It is true that at times the Bible uses the same terms to refer to the life principle/force in both humans and animals (e.g. Genesis 7:22), and that those terms may be used to refer to the immortal soul of humans (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Matthew 10:28). Revelations 16:3 also refers to the souls of animals when it states that "The second angel poured out his bowl upon the sea, so that it turned to blood as of a corpse, and every living soul that was in the sea died." The exact Greek word for soul, "psyche," was used in the original texts. The scriptures discuss how animals have the same "breath of life" as do humans (Genesis 7:15, 22)...and Numbers 16:22 refers to the Lord as "the God of spirits of all flesh." In Numbers 31:28, God commands Moses to divide up among the people the cattle, sheep, asses and human prisoners captured in battle and to give to the Lord "one soul of five hundred" of both humans and animals alike.

Even Psalm 104:27-30 says God provides for animals and their ensoulment:

"O Lord, how innumerable are Thy works; in wisdom Thou hast made them all! The earth is full of Thy well-made creations. All these look to Thee to furnish their timely feed. When Thou providest for them, they gather it. Thou openest Thy hand, and they are satisfied with good things. When Thou hidest Thy face, they are struck with despair. When Thou cuttest off their breath, in death they return to their dust. Thou sendest Thy Spirit and more are created, and Thou dost replenish the surface of the earth."
​

Moreover, Job 12:10 teaches that in God’s hand "is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind."...and Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 says humans have no advantage over animals since "They all draw the same breath...all came from the dust, and to dust all return."

Of course, it must always be remembered that Man alone was created “in the image and likeness of God” (Genesis 1:26-27)—something that may not be said of animals. God breathed His Spirit into Adam in Gen. 2:7. ...and because we are made in the image of God, murder is forbidden (Gen. 9:6)---for it neglects our own value/worth in light of our unique status in life when it comes to communion/creativity and reason with the Creator we're different. Being made in the image and likeness of God means that human beings are like God, capable of spirituality, with mind, emotion, and will, and they have a part of their being that continues after death. If pets/animals do have a “soul” or immaterial aspect, it must therefore be of a different and lesser “quality.” ...unless there's a different level of things that are to be considered when it comes to how man having an immortal soul doesn't mean that other creatures don't have eternal souls since even the angels---not made in the image of God (as well as other creatures in Revelation 4)---are immortal beings. Immortality isn't based necessarily on being made in God's Image...

Another factor to consider is that animals are a part of God’s creative process in Genesis. God created the animals and said they were good (Genesis 1:25). Therefore, there is no reason why there could not be animals on the new earth (Revelation 21:1).

Some other things to consider apart from that are how Revelation 5:8-13 all creatures recognize Jesus as the Savior of the world and praise God right along with redeemed men. Additionally, in Psalm Psalm 145:-9-10 Psalm 145:13-15 and Psalm 145:21, the scriptures note that God loves all His creation and has made plans for all His children and the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal Kingdom. Romans 8:19 says that the lesser creatures await Christ's return to redeem the sons of God so they, too, will be released from physical death to eternal life. This is in line with what Isaiah 65:25 notes when saying that "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together...and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock; and dust shall be the serpents meat." The other verse connected to Isaiah 65 is Isaiah 55:12, which states that "ye shall go out with joy and be led forth with peace; the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.."

Again, scripture says a great deal about animals, portraying them as Earth’s second most important inhabitants. God entrusted animals to us, and our relationships with animals are a significant part of our lives.

Isaiah 11:6-9 speaks of a coming glorious era on Earth when “the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.”

Some interpreters contend that this passage speaks only of the Millennium, but Isaiah anticipates an eternal Kingdom of God on Earth. Isaiah 65:17 and 66:22 specifically speak of the New Earth. Sandwiched between them is a reference very similar to that in Isaiah 11: “ ‘The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. . . . They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,’ says the Lord” (65:25). This is very much in line with Genesis 2 when man and animal were in perfect harmony together...

As it stands, the Word makes clear how there are times that animals are much more spiritual discerning than people are...and Balaam could see his own donkey showing intelligence in Numbers 22:21-34, surely one can consider animals/the treatment of them as something beyond seeing them as mere walking masses of flesh. God himself watches over even the birds of the air (Matt. 6:26)..and the way others view animals reminds me of what occurred with Michael Vick in his treatment of the dogs he abused.

Probably the best place to go is the ministry of Randy Alcorn, as he made a book entitled "Heaven" which I thought was stellar since it addresses a number of questions concerning what we'll be doing later. For more info, one can go online/investigate his work entitled "Will there be animals in heaven? - Resources - Eternal Perspectives Ministry" ( ).

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The animals in the shelter bowed down and worship Yeshua which is more than we can say for the entire village of Bethlehem.

The Nativity scenes are always powerful to consider when thinking on the ways animals worshipped the Messiah.

Many often assume that animals were present in worship mainly when the Nativity scene comes up and others consider the birth of Christ. Granted, even with things such as the Nativity scene, indeed, the Gospel of Luke doesn’t mention a single animal being present at the nativity. However, there are some things which can be inferred. In example, we can’t speak for the donkeys not being present automatically since their presence at the manger when Jesus was Born would have been likely. After, it was a hotel stable...and we can assume there were all sorts of manger using animals hanging around. Even if the hotel guests weren’t traveling with donkeys, remember, at least one donkey would have been present, the one Mary rode in on.

And with the animals present, why would they NOT worship the Messiah? As the Word of God already mentioned multiple times (Psalm 104 being one of them), all of creation knows its Creator and why it was made to worship Him. So it'd seem logical that even the animals know something about worship to the Lord.

A lot of things are amazing in seeing once considering how to see the Nativity scene/the scriptures through Middle-Eastern eyes and understand where things (i.e. rooms, animals, etc) would've been properly placed and how different that is from our imagination of things today. Kenneth E. Baily did a lot of excellent work on the issue in his book entitled "Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes" and shared in-depth on the ways that Joseph/Mary weren't traditionally in a barn as many think....nor were they in poor conditions when Christ was born since Joseph had royal blood/had relatives that would have taken care of them in his hometown (as it'd be dishonorable for relatives to turn away blood/family at crucial times and hospitality is key)....with it being best to see that Joseph/Mary stayed with family in the way things are traditionally done in the Middle East (more shared here in Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes: Cultural Studies in the Gospels - Page 31 )

In peasant homes of the time, mangers were located in the main part of the house. As Kenneth Bailey points out, “Each night into that designated area, the family cow, donkey and a few sheep would be driven. And every morning those same animals were taken out and tied up in the courtyard of the house. The animal stall would then be cleaned for the day”. The animals are put in the house because, “they provide heat in winter and are safe from theft”.

The Bible even reveals this practice of keeping animals in the house:

• 1 Samuel 28:24 (ESV) — 24 Now the woman had a fattened calf in the house, and she quickly killed it, and she took flour and kneaded it and baked unleavened bread of it,

• Judges 11:31 (ESV) — 31 then whatever comes out from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites shall be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.” Jephthah assumed it would be one of his animals not his daughter.

• Luke 13:15 (ESV) — 15 Then the Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the manger and lead it away to water it? As stated earlier, the animals are taken out of the house (untied) every morning and led out of the house – even on the Sabbath. Interestingly, the phrase used by Luke 13:12, “you are freed” literally means “untied”.And the earliest Arabic version of the NT from the 9th century translates Luke 13:15 as, “does not every one of you untie his ox or his donkey from the manger in the house and take it outside and water it?”


​

Thus, it is likely that Jesus was born in a typical peasant home of the day at the invitation and hospitality of a family related to Joseph. The guest room of the house was full and so they were invited to stay in the main part of the house..and animals would easily have been present.

As it concerns differing views of the Nativity scene, some excellent places to go for consideration:

• The Manger and the Innjavascript:void(0)
• Away in a Manger, But Not a Barn - Bible Study Magazinejavascript:void(0)
• The Nativity According to Luke - Biblical Archaeology Review