“Lo-ammi . . . not my people” (Hosea 1.9).

[Just The Facts]

Hi raphe

No I was meaning more if it is 1260 years Of gentiles trampling in succession then you would have to start your date from 70 AD which would leave us in about 1330AD.

Most of those who are of the lost tribes still do not even know. As far as Ephramites from where are they migrating Ephriamites are Scythians.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

It does not offend us IT IS JUST NOT TRUE. You Need to do some reading Troy.

That is like saying all Americans are Texans they are not.

The House of Judah is three Tribe Judah Benjamin and the levites. The Other Tribes are not of the House of Judah ..........never Were .............Never will be the y are from the House of Israel

If you actually read the Chapter you started this thread off with you will see there are Clearly Two different Houses.

The House of Israel/Joseph consists of the 10 Northern Tribes

Judah never had them in

In Fact Judah does not even hold the right to the name Israel that name goes to the House of Joseph.

That is why Jesus was Born a Jew in Judea. Herod was King of Judea because it was the kingdom of the House of judah.

The House of Joseph did not return with the house of Judah in 538 BC if you check the Names you will see this is true only the House of Judah Returned. Once again you need to do some reading anyone who has even studied this a bit knows the House of Judah is not The House of Israel.

 

[Rafael]

Hi

It does not offend us IT IS JUST NOT TRUE. You Need to do some reading Troy.

That is like saying all Americans are Texans they are not.

The House of Judah is three Tribe Judah Benjamin and the levites. The Other Tribes are not of the House of Judah ..........never Were .............Never will be the y are from the House of Israel

If you actually read the Chapter you started this thread off with you will see there are Clearly Two different Houses.

The House of Israel/Joseph consists of the 10 Northern Tribes

Judah never had them in

In Fact Judah does not even hold the right to the name Israel that name goes to the House of Joseph.

That is why Jesus was Born a Jew in Judea. Herod was King of Judea because it was the kingdom of the House of judah.

The House of Joseph did not return with the house of Judah in 538 BC if you check the Names you will see this is true only the House of Judah Returned. Once again you need to do some reading anyone who has even studied this a bit knows the House of Judah is not The House of Israel.

Yes, otherwise God would not make the distinction even in the New Testament, speaking of the new covenant:

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

 

[Troy777]

Where do you come up with this 1260 years stuff? Is this some new teaching? You don't even say where it begins or when it ends or what relevance it has. Sounds strange. Is this some 1260 years cult or something?

See Rev. 7.1-8. God takes into account all tribes, Judah an Joseph and all the others.

Sometimes scriptures mention just the Jews as Israel and sometimes with the houses as one as in Heb. 8.

This sounds like a cult of some sort, I call it a "dividing Israel and Judah" obsession.

See Rev. 5.5 Before God, our Lord is the Lamb and not a lion; but to the Jews He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah. The lion is mighty and kingly.

Yet Jesus is a shoot that comes out of Jesse, not a branch of David, but a Root of David for David is a King after the pattern of the Lord Jesus.

The Jews are all those of Israel, northern and southern. Never forget that. Don't start some cult based on saying that Judah is only the Jews. Joseph means Israel all tribes northern and southern and that is why God comes back to this truth in Rev. 7.

 

[Rafael]

Jews = Judah

 

[Troy777]

Jews=Judah + all other Jewish tribes. Just because northern Israel has fallen away doesn't mean they still did not come from 400 years of slavery in Egypt. That is ridiculous. God will preserve a remnant from all 12 tribes, not just one you silly goose.

 

[Rafael]

Jews=Judah + all other Jewish tribes. Just because northern Israel has fallen away doesn't mean they still did not come from 400 years of slavery in Egypt. That is ridiculous. God will preserve a remnant from all 12 tribes, not just one you silly goose.

Well, silly goose isn't too bad of a name to be called, but I think your missing out on a blessing by not seeing the difference in the prophecies to the two houses of Israel and God's promise to restore the two houses into one. He uses the sons of Gomer and Hosea to illustrate how the Joseph, Ephraim, side that was lost into captivity would return as a mighty warrior to come to the rescue of his brother Judah in perilous times, and the jealousy and envy between them would finally be put to rest with the restoration of Israel. It's a really a neat story that blesses me a lot to know and is hidden from most. It sheds some light on the end times, but doesn't really change the fact that both houses have to become the Church of Jesus Christ. Ephraim as "firstborn" of God provokes to jealousy his brother by having the Spirit of God and the double portion and is part of the reason that Judah turns to Jesus as Messiah. A word study of just "firstborn" is interesting to see who the term applies to in scripture - Ephraim, Jesus, and the Church. It's all good.

 

[Troy777]

I have no problem with that, let them work it out. I just don't like how some here are pushing their messianic judaistic agendas and ebionite agendas and other such things I am not even aware of to create dissension in th body of Christ for this major division and that it is only the house of Judah in end times. That to me is a legalism when it shows all 12 tribes in Revelation, a remnant of 144,000 being saved through the splitting of the mountain to escape the the dragon who chases after them but fails so then goes after the rest of the Jews who sacrafice and the Christians who do not perform sacrafices, though do sacrafice spiritually. Nowhere, by the way will you find in scripture there will be Jews of the nation of Jerusalem proclaiming Christ. That does not happen, and they don't actually believe, that is, a remnant, until Christ returns with power and by His miracles convinces them that He is the one.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi troy

there are no other Jewish tribes there is One Tribe of Judah.

So is it your position the Jews themselves are lost in this "cult" For Even the modern state of Israel says it is only the House of Judah and they look for and wish to reunite with the House of Joseph.

Are people from new York Texans are people form Texas New Yorkers.

That is what you are saying when you say all tribes are Jews that is like saying all Americans are from Texas.

Sorry you are just wrong…………………. do more reading.

like verse like

1Kgs:12:19: So Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day.

2Kgs:17:23: Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

2Chron:10:19: And Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day.

There are Two Houses............. they Are the Two Olive Trees they are God's Two Witnesses that He alone is God.

Troy you are missing one of the keys to understanding prophecy when you deny this very basic and scripturally backed truth of the two houses.

Here is a prophecy aimed at modern Israel ……We know it is modern israel because it is the only time The house of Judah used the name Israel. Never before was the House of Judah's name Israel it was Judea.

1: Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness. 2: For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name.

As we can see God is not impressed with these Jews who cal themselves Israel who claim to be following god however we are told NOT IN TRUTH OR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

This is modern Israel swearing by God but refusing Jesus they use the name Israel but are Jews God is not impressed with these Jews…………….. the chapter goes on to say they go into the Lake of fire.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi troy

As for the 1260 years it is the day for a year principle that is applied when ever it is about Wrath or punishment.

Ezek:4:5: For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. 6: And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.6: And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Once again we see the two houses and here we also see the year for a Day.

And here

Num:14:34: After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

And Daniel 9: is also punishment time and a year for each day.

You really need to do allot more reading.

 

[SeekingtheTruth]

Hi Mr. Facts,

Are we past the 1260 years now? What year did the 1260 years end?

The children of Israel were disciplined 40 years. Numbers 14.34 does not apply equally to other "days" mentioned in Scripture and certainly not the "days" found in Revelation. God commanded Ezekiel 4.6 to lie down in a certain position as a response to the iniquity of Judah. This has nothing to do with the other "days" found in the Bible.

Let's look at some other passages.
(1) Did God wait 7 years in Gen. 7.4 for it to rain 40 days and 40 nights? (see vv. 10,12).
(2) Was it 3 years after the chief butler was released from prison in Gen. 40.12,13? (see vv.20,21).
(3) The children of Israel went out to gather manna every day, not once a year (Ex. 16.4,5).
(4) God gave meat to the children of Israel to eat for a "whole month" (Num. 11.19, 20). They did not eat meat for thirty years.
(5) Did the children of Israel cross over Jordan after three years? (Jushua 1.11)
(6) Was the Lord Jesus in the heart of the earth for three years? (Matt. 12.40)

From this evidence we can easily conclude the year-day theory is erroneous. According to the year-day theory three and a half years of the Great Tribulation would have to be calculated as thousand two hundred and sixty years and the millennial kingdom would ahve to be extended out to three hundred and sixty thousand years. Obviously, we know this can not be true.

May we therefore trust the Holy Spirit to guide us correctly as we read the Word of God. Let us not seize upon strange ideas like this. Even though the Bible is most wonderful, it is not to be explained in any quant or bizarre way. We ought to learn to be more obedient to God in our thought. And then we will not be likely to misinterpret His word. And not make the mistakes of those who falsely proclaim the return of Christ on this basis for even Jesus does not know Himself the date of His return. Let us not twist the word for the date of Christ's return of for other reasons in Scripture.

 

[SeekingtheTruth]

Mr. Facts,

Who are these two witnesses? These two witnesses in Rev. 11 have no reference to a group or groups. These two witnesses are personal witnesses since witnessing is done by man (Acts. 1.8), they are clothed in sackcloth, they are slain, they have dead bodies, and they are prophets.

Who are they? According to Hebrews 9, "it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment" (v.27). The words in 11.4 are quoted from Zechariah 4.2,3. "Standing" signifies living. When a person is tired, he sits down; when sick, he lies down; and when dead he falls down. But these two men are standing. In the entire Bible only two men are recorded as not having died; they are Enoch and Elijah. These two men alone stand before the Lord (Incidently, it is said in the apocryphal writings of John that Enoch and Elijah will come.)

God promised to preserve all the houses of Jacob.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

I never said they had to do with the days in revelation. You need to read……………… I said when it is a punishment from God under the covenant. read read read.

Now I know of No Daniel 14: So what you are quoting I have no Idea. perhaps reading and then reading some more will help.

Spare me with The Appointed once to die theory. You will not find one verse that calls these two men by the names given in revelation

The two have Three names the y Are Witnesses they Are Olive Trees they are Candle Sticks.

Find who else God calls these s names and you will have your answer. They are the two houses of Israel The House Of Judah and the House of Israel. They are the 144,000 Christian Saints of the Great tribulation.

 

[SeekingtheTruth]

Hi Mr. Facts,

I am not sure I am following you. Are you saying you think the Two Witnesses in Rev. 11 are not Enoch and Elijah?

There are two groups of 144,000. The first group is the Jews that are protected through the mountain splitting, and the second group is the 144,000 firstfruits who are Christians.

Do you agree with this?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

No

There is only one way to be sealed and that is to belive in Jesus. For Greek and for Jew.

The 144,000 are all Christiansthey are sealed and follow the Lamb...........THE WORD.

2Cor:1:22: Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph:4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Sealing is getting the Holy Spirit which you get when you accept Jesus.Then you are sealed.

I can say with 100% confidence that no one is sealed unless they accept jesus.

The 144,00 are Christian Witnesses who call Christianity to repent. they are the prophets God sends to warn Christianity to repent before the plagues are released.Christianity refuses and the Wrath of God is unleashed on the harlot who says she is the Bride of Christ a Queen who will never see sorrow but is accutually a harlot and her many Harlot daughters.

revelation is not aimed at jews it is not aimed at Pagans it is not aimed at Muslims........it is aimed at and exclusivly for Christianity.

1Cor:14:22: Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[SeekingtheTruth]

Sealed simply means here to preserve, trusted ones, 144,000. They are not saved yet, but they will be when Christ steps down on the Mount of Olives (Zech. 13.1, 14.4, 12.10-14).

Who are these people?

1) Not the church

Ten reasons to prove that the people in this passage are the Jews according to the flesh.

a) If “the children of Israel” spoken of in 2.14 is to be explained literally, then “the children of Israel” found in 7.4 must also be literally interpreted.

b) Since “the tribe of Judah” mentioned in 5.5 is literal, so must “the tribe of Judah” mentioned in 7.5 be literal.

c) The names of the twelve tribes belong only to the children of Israel; who can therefore say which Christian denomination comes under the name of which tribe of Israel?

d) Israel has 12 tribes, but the church is one. How can the church be divided into 12 tribes?

e) 7.9 speaks of “every nation”, so “Israel” spoken of in 7.4 must be a nation

f) The great multitude told of in 7.9 is numberless, while those mentioned in 7.3-4 who receive the seal on their foreheads are numbered as 144,000. How can anyone restrict the saved ones of the church to a group numbering only 144,000? Furthermore, this number of 144,000 is made up of 12 twelve thousands. It would thus be unreasonable not to interpret literally.

g) ”The kings” spoken of in 6.15 are taken literally’ how then can “Israel” found in 7.4 not be reckoned as nation?

h) Because John did not know where this great multitude came from, he said to one of the elders, “Thou knowest” (7.13,14). Yet he did not ask about those told of in 7.4-8, since evidently he had already known who they were.

i) In Joel 2.2-27 we read that God only tells Israel how to escape the locusts, and in Revelations 9.3,4 we read that only those whom God has sealed escape the hurt of the locusts. It is thus proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the sealed are the Jews.

j) The sheep mentioned in Matthew 25 treat well the little brother (‘one of these my brethren, even these least”-v.40). (This little brother points to the Jews or those Christians who yet remain on earth). This little brother-Israel-will become the test for the nations of the earth.

2. Not the church but the various people of Israel.

These people who are sealed with the seal of the living God are:

a) the Jews who will rule with Christ on earth in the future (though not as kings). Twelve thousand is the resultant number of the multiples of 12, it being 12x10x10x10. This number represents the eternal perfection of God’s government.

b) the suffering Jews who make up part of the little brother mentioned in Matthew 25.

c) the Jewish counterpart of those who endure to the end as spoken of in Matthew 24.

d) the Jews upon whom the Holy Spirit will be poured out in the coming day (the former rain has already been poured out-Acts 2, but the latter rain is yet to be poured forth-Joel 2.28-29). The blood and fire mentioned in Joel 2.30 coincide with the phenomena of the first trumpet; the pillars of smoke agree with the fifth trumpet. Thus the second outpouring of the Holy Spirit will occur between the 6th seal and the 5th trumpet.

e) Those Jews who receive the New Covenant when the Lord Jesus shall establish His New Covenant with Israel on earth (Jer. 31.31-34).

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

you are forgetting a couple of things that change the whole concept of your argument.

1. Anyone who is sealed is a Child of the promise and Heir to the promise.
2. If you are not Frightful(works of the Spirit) you are cut off of the Olive tree.

The only way a Jewish person or a Ephraimite or a gentile can be saved is by being sealed with the Holy Spirit THE PROOF of this sealing FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE is their Works.

Mt:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

In fact there are over 50 verses in the new testament that show that the "fruit" is the proof of the Spirit's presence.

We are told to Judge a teacher by the fruit of the Doctrine.

What is the result of this belief…………….. has it produced the fruit of the Spirit. Wisdom, Peace Harmony, Trust, Love, Joy ,Laughter,

Or has it produced the fruit of Satan the Bad vine, Anger , Murder, Death , Destruction , Hate , Envy, Greed,.............need I go on.

Everyone needs to hear the words I speak for they are not my words they are the Words of The Prince of Peace, They are the Words of the Lamb who's words we must follow where ever he goes AGAINST ALL LOGIC……….. AGAINST ALL REASON……………… AGAINST ALL DOCTRINE.

Mt:26:52: Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

9: If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Please my brother and sisters hear with your hearts and turn and be healed. Please before it is too late.

We must put down our swords and beg the Lord to forgive us. For our sins have piled high unto heaven and God's wrath will soon befall us all.

Christianity was to stand as a Witness against the very thing we have become please hear the words.

Mt:5:39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

12: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mt:13:15: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

When Jesus returns he is going to destroy EVERY SOLDIER………… IN EVERY ARMY………….. ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

Rv 16:14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

RV 17:13: These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14: These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

RV 19 19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.21: And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; AND HE WILL TEACH US OF HIS WAYS, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, NEITHER SHALL THEY LEARN WAR ANY MORE.

Blessed is the Lord our God…………. Blessed is the Prince of Peace and his ways………………..Blessed is the LAMB………….Blessed is The WORD.

Please hear the WORD.

All these Lies War Murder and Death is not of God's Will it is the Will of Satan for he was a liar and a murderer from the beginning

 

[SeekingtheTruth]

Hi Mr. Facts,

Sounds like you will have to do some work of understanding and allow the Holy Spirit to reach your life. God speaks of 3 groups, not 4. His word speaks of the Jews, Christians, and gentiles. Not a 4th group. It is so wonderful to have the blood of Christ for we as Christians will literally be accussed of the truth by the evil spirit in men. Fear the Lord and accept that the sealed children of Israel is a very small remnant of 144,000 in which they believe only by the return of Jesus Christ's miracles, finally, after all these centuries denying the risen Lord. How vain are men who love to judaize Christianity.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Sorry belief becomes before sealing not the other way around. I accuse you of nothing.

You on the other hand suggest I have not the spirit in my life. because I do not believe a falsehood.

May God Rebuke you should you suggest it again.

What I have posted is true and the words of the lamb not the doctrines of men.

You are Wrong this it is with two groups TRUE CHRISTIANS and those who Follow the AC and His God of Forces..

I have said my piece in this thread.

 

[SeekingtheTruth]

Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness (sealing and preserving a remnant)

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (preserving an remnant of Israel's promise)

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. (preserving and sealing a Jewish remnant nation)

Please stop Judaizing Christianity. You will be held accountable for saying Israel accepts Christ today already. How can a saved Christian say such a thing? That is heresy. Many legalizers will come forth in the world. Let us put on the armor of God.