“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination.

[selfinflikted]

Yes and that mentality pertains to freedom, not others imposing their will on people.

Freedoms come with responsibilities. You are neglecting yours.

 

[mafwons]

Is there a freedom to endanger the health of other people when your own health or well being isn't harmed by making the effort not to do so?

Well being is a very broad area, I would argue that having ones rights curtailed is quite injurious to their well being.

 

[mafwons]

Freedoms come with responsibilities. You are neglecting yours.

I neglect no responsibilities, unless you are aware of somthing I am neglecting, if so by all means let me know.

 

[OGM]

Heck it was common in in the U.S. in the past to not name a child for a couple of years. Giving a babe a name made the pain worse when they dies early.

That is very true...the problem is this generation has no collective memory of such a thing. Thus some are lulled in to thinking everything was better before the "evil vaccines" were around. Heck, even polio is starting to seem a long time ago.

By 1790 vaccines were proven. Edward Jenner (cow/smallpox), Jonas Salk (Polio) and Maurice Helliman (Measles) must be rolling in their graves right now.

 

[selfinflikted]

I neglect no responsibilities, unless you are aware of somthing I am neglecting, if so by all means let me know.

Not getting vaccinated/not having your kids vaccinated/promoting anti-vaccination propaganda.

Unless I've misunderstood your position and you and your family have been vaccinated.

If you're not, or your family isn't, that's a GIGANTIC fail on responsibility.

 

[Paulos23]

Actually a great deal of the human race died from infectious diseases. It was common for children not to make it to age 10. Actually it still is in some parts of the world.

Of those that did make it...they were often crippled, scarred and disabled from infectious diseases we now vaccinate against.

Most people on this forum are probably not old enough to be part of the polio scare.

My mother was, and impressed it down on me and my brother. I will impress it on my son as well.

Really don't want to go back to that.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Wow that is terrible! I feel sorry for your Father.

He's used to it, at least he knows when to stay away from the school.

Why were those kids not vaccinated? I know a friend of mine that has an egg allergy so he can't vaccinated for a virus incubated in eggs. He wishes he could because he feels vulnerable.

I personally don't know. My parents might, because they're friends with the families. I know at least one family is what we'd term a "crunchy" family (like what was mentioned earlier) and they don't vaccinate at all period. They had to get an exemption to attend the school.

He has a legitimate reason. On the other had; I think religious exemption should be stricken and not available for public school entry.

What's funny is that this is a private Lutheran school, and Lutherans don't believe vaccinations are wrong, so there can't really be a religious exemption anyway. Parents who choose to not vaccinate and get an exemption I believe pay a higher tuition. I could be wrong on that though.

 

[Paulos23]

I never get sick after flu shot because I don't get it.

And yet your Dad can't have a flu shot.

Talk about not being responsible.

 

[mafwons]

No, it's not their right.

There's four kids in the school that my dad's grandkids attend who are not vaccinated against chicken pox. One of them recently contracted chicken pox, and so my mom had to deal with yet ANOTHER shingles episode (she's also the librarian). Another kid gets whooping cough repeatedly, and that's when my dad can't go near the school. So he loses out on spending time with his grandkids because these people don't understand the harm they're posing.

You will never convince me that not vaccinating our children is a good solution. We're already seeing the fruits of the anti-vac movement, and it's UGLY. But hey, what's a few kids and adults dying in the name of "rights"...

Shingles bears no relation to another person having chicken pox, if it is that serious then the individual with shingles needs permanent medication for the shingles thats what my dad had to do after losing his imunity, its not that big of deal, but again has zero to do with weather or not someone else is vaccinated, if your medical profesional indicated this you would do well to look for another.
I would question someone getting whooping cough repeatedly as ro its validity, it may be possible but that person probably would not get immunity from the DTaP in that case, so its kind of a mute point. Whooping cough in adults is like chicken pox in kids an inconvenience, only very, very rarely life threatening.
I would never try to convince anyone that not vaccinating is good policy, I and all my children as well as my wife are vaccinated, of course we dont do flu shots, I would however never sit myself up high and mighty and try to take the right to decide this crucial question from others. I have family members who are not vaccinated because of religious concerns and I quite respect their right to do so.

I really have not seen the ugliness you are discussing, snd vaccinating is not risk free read those papers they give you when you get vaccinated, bad stuff happens to some people.

 

[Paulos23]

It's the norm, but most adults are terrible at getting regular physicals. When the main reason you see doctors is when you are sick the need for boosters isn't always checked into. Perhaps it's an insurance issue as well. Some HMO's aren't particularly interested in paying for things patients don't ask for.

Some companies give free flu shots to their workers if they want it. They know it cuts down on sick days. Some HMO's remind you to take one (mine does) since it also cuts down on doctor visits.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well being is a very broad area, I would argue that having ones rights curtailed is quite injurious to their well being.

So the right to refuse a preventative medical treatment that benefits the population as a whole and contributes to public health? Really?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Shingles bears no relation to another person having chicken pox, if it is that serious then the individual with shingles needs permanent medication for the shingles thats what my dad had to do after losing his imunity, its not that big of deal, but again has zero to do with weather or not someone else is vaccinated, if your medical profesional indicated this you would do well to look for another.
I would question someone getting whooping cough repeatedly as ro its validity, it may be possible but that person probably would not get immunity from the DTaP in that case, so its kind of a mute point. Whooping cough in adults is like chicken pox in kids an inconvenience, only very, very rarely life threatening.
I would never try to convince anyone that not vaccinating is good policy, I and all my children as well as my wife are vaccinated, of course we dont do flu shots, I would however never sit myself up high and mighty and try to take the right to decide this crucial question from others. I have family members who are not vaccinated because of religious concerns and I quite respect their right to do so.

I really have not seen the ugliness you are discussing, snd vaccinating is not risk free read those papers they give you when you get vaccinated, bad stuff happens to some people.

Up do you understand how tiny the risks of a vaccine are in comparison to the risks of not being vaccinated? People died of the flu in the past, it can happen again.

 

[mafwons]

Not getting vaccinated/not having your kids vaccinated/promoting anti-vaccination propaganda.

Unless I've misunderstood your position and you and your family have been vaccinated.

If you're not, or your family isn't, that's a GIGANTIC fail on responsibility.

I do believe you did misunderstand, we are vaccinated, I am not even necessarily advocating for not vaccinating (although I do question some things pertaining to the vaccination scedule, they plain don't make sense, I assume money is involved) I do advocate for an individuals right to chose for themselves and their families weather or not they will be vaccinated. As I have said the Amish whom I have lived around all of my life do not vaccinate (although I'm not sure thats true across the board). If I had not chosen for myself or my family to be vaccinated that would not by any means be a fail, it would be my decission. I do not understand why people are so hostile to the righys of others. No one on here can do more than insinuate its possible that not getting vaccinated will effect others.

 

[OGM]

My mother was, and impressed it down on me and my brother. I will impress it on my son as well. Really don't want to go back to that.

My university professor and an engineer where I used to work were crippled from polio. They were horrified to discover people nowadays did not vaccinate their children from it. These guys had no choice because they caught it before a vaccine was developed. One of the guys sister ended up in an iron lung because she could not breath. She ultimately died.

He's used to it, at least he knows when to stay away from the school. I personally don't know. My parents might, because they're friends with the families. I know at least one family is what we'd term a "crunchy" family (like what was mentioned earlier) and they don't vaccinate at all period. They had to get an exemption to attend the school. What's funny is that this is a private Lutheran school, and Lutherans don't believe vaccinations are wrong, so there can't really be a religious exemption anyway. Parents who choose to not vaccinate and get an exemption I believe pay a higher tuition. I could be wrong on that though.

My demomination believes in vaccines. As a matter of fact my Church had several healthcare professionals in it. They would conduct a Health Day every year. One of the things they would go over is vaccines and boosters.

 

[mafwons]

Up do you understand how tiny the risks of a vaccine are in comparison to the risks of not being vaccinated? People died of the flu in the past, it can happen again.

I do, dying of the flu is always possible, however it is only minimally less likely due to flu shot. It is very frequent that the flu shot is for incorrect strain of flu, the logarithm they use to predict what will be the next trend is not fooproof, its just pretty good. The odds are if we got hit with an epidemic like the 1918 spanish flu outbreak, the shot would be worthless. So its like rolling the dice on the flu shot. Just because I understand the risk is low does not mean that others do. I have quite a few friends that are nurses, I would say about 25% of them are anti vax. If health professionals can't agree how than should laypersons decide for one another.

 

[DaisyDay]

I have lived near the Amish my entire life, the horrors, the last one just died yesterday and they wiped out the population of the town I grew up in, in fact I'm dead as I write this. I believe you need to get educated, propaganda like that makes sheeple even less informed.

Most Amish DO vaccinate their children. Educate yourself.

 

[mafwons]

Most Amish DO vaccinate their children. Educate yourself.

I happen to be very educated thanks, do you not see the problems with their study and it application to all Amish 86% had some vaccines, I'd be intetested to know which ones. Only 68% of the very small number responded, I'd say the sample is not large enough to be meaningful and that the results are deceptively published. You do know the Amish don't, as a general rule, drive but I could poll the few that do and apply it to all and then use that to support my claim that Amish drive.

 

[pgp_protector]

Someone's having a good day fishing.

 

[keith99]

I do, dying of the flu is always possible, however it is only minimally less likely due to flu shot. It is very frequent that the flu shot is for incorrect strain of flu, the logarithm they use to predict what will be the next trend is not fooproof, its just pretty good. The odds are if we got hit with an epidemic like the 1918 spanish flu outbreak, the shot would be worthless. So its like rolling the dice on the flu shot. Just because I understand the risk is low does not mean that others do. I have quite a few friends that are nurses, I would say about 25% of them are anti vax. If health professionals can't agree how than should laypersons decide for one another.

No, fools would be claiming the vaccine was worthless. If it missed but came close to the right strain it could well spell the difference between a repeat of 1918 and just a very bad year.

The vast majority of diseases have a much better outcome if there is good care. Even simple things like mom providing you chicken soup and clean sheets after each time you crap the bed.

But when everyone in the house is sick there is no one to do that and things can spiral out of control.

A vaccine that is 'ineffective because it only prevents the disease in 10-20 percent of the population and gives the rest a 10-20 percent shorter time of infection can easily be the difference between a disease spreading out of control and not.

 

[mafwons]

No, fools would be claiming the vaccine was worthless. If it missed but came close to the right strain it could well spell the difference between a repeat of 1918 and just a very bad year.

The vast majority of diseases have a much better outcome if there is good care. Even simple things like mom providing you chicken soup and clean sheets after each time you crap the bed.

But when everyone in the house is sick there is no one to do that and things can spiral out of control.

A vaccine that is 'ineffective because it only prevents the disease in 10-20 percent of the population and gives the rest a 10-20 percent shorter time of infection can easily be the difference between a disease spreading out of control and not.

You are correct no fools claim it would be worthless, its eduvated people who know what they are talking about, actually I heard this both in the army and in college, from people who wholehearted belived in swallowing ever pill, and getting every shot the medical industrial complex could come up with. If they get the wrong flu they get the wrong flu there is no magic it gets some 10-20 % of other stuff too.