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I agree, Gerry, that there is general guidance and a generic recommendation to ask for divine guidance through the Holy Spirit. Most people want a cookbook, though, or a repetoire of techniques to use to successfully evangelize. It's very difficult to deal with something that's so open, and...

I would add one of my current favorite verses I use when someone pulls the "that may be ok for you, but not for me" arguments, which leads to the Christian Complacency that has decimated the church's role in society over the past 40 years: Leviticus 19:17 "Rebuke your neighbor, lest ye share...

Thanks, Prodigal & Ben, good reproach, good level set. Group hug, everyone. :hug: Now, back to our respective pulpits... Just to sum up, before we explore our differences any further. You can be either OSAS or OSNAS and still be saved. Everyone agrees that Salvation by Works is...

Hi Ben, "We" don't do anything. Christ already did the work. We simply accept the gift through faith, and even that God gives us to do - we don't do anything, God does it in us by grace. Lest we have reason to brag. Your request for scripture: Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying...

Hi Lion Heart, I have a hard time following your train of thought, but I think we, in the main, agree. We're both OSAS, totally God given grace to faith unto salvation. I think we have a mild disagreement on the degree of difference between abiding and salvation, but perhaps not, as I can't...

No it is not. Salvation is what happens when we receive Christ, it is not the receiving itself. We are saved from the penalty of our sins, by Christ's taking on of our sins and our taking on of his life. But salvation is the being saved part, not the results/life/works that follow from being...

Lion Heart, Ben, I cry foul. The word salvation is not in the quote, and yet you put it in quotes. John 15:4 - "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me." You are adding your...

This means of discussion is going nowhere. Mjwhite and Ben, I appreciate your tenacity, but we've sort of degenerated to "Scripture says this." "Does not!" "Does to!" "Does not!" Now I'm completely at a loss to understand your position and explanations, Ben, but I sense an equal...

Hi Ben, I still think you're confusing sanctification & fellowship with salvation. These two things can happen because our salvation is secure, but they are not the same thing. The 1 John passage doesn't equate the concepts at all. They are interrelated, but distinct. Abiding fellowship...

Hi Lion Heart, You must have had me confused with other posters in your earlier post, I never said that salvation is a process. Salvation is a singular event in a believer's life. The moment he/she believes, he is saved from judgement unto enternal life. Instantly, permanently...

I think a lot of the threads I've been reading lately confirm one thing: We are all sinners, and we all need redeeming. All sin warrants death, "abomination" is a clarifying descriptor that causes many to jump up and down, but it still turns out to be just plain old horrible miserable...

Hi Lion Heart, Yours: Your analysis is inaccurate, I was simply denoting I was the subject of being reborn. I made no comment on how it came about, whether from me or God. But God did it. That's an odd argument, that "use of word frequency establishes causation". :scratch: I'm...

Np on the long response. Lives get busy! Thanks for the info, it helped. I would add that the druid movement is, apparently, alive and reviving. Female druids are druidesses, I believe. Some of the societies in the region where druidism held sway at the time were decidedly matriarchal, but...

Hi Kern, So what was that whole Nicodemus thing about? And what is the Catholic stance on coming to faith - all your sins up until that point are forgiven? After that it's on a sin by sin (even though we're sinless...) basis? I'm with Louis on this one. I should want to walk with Christ...

A proof, that occurred to me while reading ElderMike's threads (thanks!): Assumption: When I was born again, all my sins were forgiven, past, present, future. To fall away from God, to turn my back on him, would be a sin. Definitely a violation of "Love the Lord your God with all your...

So, the elect can become the unelect. and then A contradiction. As for how it could have been stated more clearly, how about "the Elect, who have lost their salvation..." or "Those born again in Christ's spirit, yet who have thrown away their salvation unto hell and judgement" or a...

Hey Ben, I said "game" in the sense of someone who wants to do a certain thing a certain way, no matter that there are other ways of doing or seeing it. That's "his game". I recognize that you are sincere and that this discussion is pleasantly serioius. ;) Your argument about 2Pet1 is...

Hi Wiccan Warrior, Your quote: Not at all. I was simply making an experiential observation. In other words, in my limited experience, wiccans who attempt to integrate Christianity have all been interesting, decent seeming people, whereas those who do not integrate Christianity do not...

Hi Ben, I notice you didn't answer yes or no to my 3 questions, but I think we agree there anyway. We do continue to sin, and immediate repentance is the correct response to continue in closest fellowship with God. I'll play your game once, just to make my case. I don't see how the...