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Starcomet's posts prove what everyone should already know, that within Christian universalism--just as in other forms of Christianity--there are a variety of beliefs. It remains that great many traditional/orthodox believers tend to lump all universalism together without distinction of the...

What specifically are you referring to? You appear to have gathered from several and rolled them all together. Not sure what connection you feel the presented myth(s) have with the question 'are we already in hell?'

I hope it is a virtue; I seem to have inadvertantly volunteered for a healthy share of it during a couple episodes of my life....

Come on, simononline. Don't hold back. Don't be shy. How do you really feel about goodnewsinc's post?

Whose standard of "orthodoxy", yours, mine or his?

But then there is the sovereign grace view which holds that cleansing and purification, which is completely (at least initially, and even primarily thereafter) of God is the sole agent which brings forth all the goods we know to seek after, including faith and gnosis. Where do the consensus of...

Thanks for weighing in Soulgazer. I don't see anything in what you posted to suggest a direct confrontation with the principle of the atonement. I'm sure you're right about different sorts of Gnostics. Obviously, Christian Universalists run into the same sort of thing. The tendency is to...

I did not know this. Are there Gnostics participating in this thread who can confirm or deny this? I've been engaged in discussions with professing Gnostics and find we have a lot in common. Like some of them, I find the manmade literalism of evangelical Christianity to be as much a control...

Behold the wisdom of the one who contends: I can only imagine the convolutions your brain must go through to ignore the obvious truth of your own hypocripsy. Yeah, the old gray matter sometimes gets twisted up like a pretzel. Mmmmm, this is making me hungry. So, you went from a screwed up...

Weird. I guess I assumed their services were more tame. Yes, I'm aware of some of the deep differences between Chrisitanity and UU. The witches, orgies and drinking just threw me off track. Had no idea. It'll be interesting to see if a UU or two will weigh in on this.

The more you post, the more I appreciate your point of view, sonis. By now you must surely be an embarrassment to thinking, rational traditional Christians. Your tirades show more clearly with each post the mean spirit and lack of ability to mount a coherent argument found in an extremist...

Seriously? Do you think this is typical of a UU service? Don't mean to be inflamatory, but this sounds like possibly an isolated thing? Are there any UU's reading this thread who would either defend or affirm the above as typical?

Yes. When I suggested not hyjacking the thread several posts ago, was waiting for someone to jump in and continue. no one did. So whilst waiting, have been enjoying a lighthearted off topic discussion with my old friend sonis. Are there some other distinctions between the two belief systems...

Whoa. Good one. Been studying the dictionary have we? I'm beginnin to see you as the king of powerful argument...but, is there a point? Scary? Shucks, I guess you've heard that I sit around the campfire telling 'salvation of all' stories in order to frighten little kids. Didn't realize...

Don't be so presumptuous. A "classic example"? A misinterpretation of one Scripture doesn't lead anyone anywhere. Eternal tormentist doctrines are evidence of this, as many of them are still straight up folks. Yes the spirit of Satan was speaking through Peter. How can that be? One of...

I don't disagree with this....but it doesn't change who and what we are. The Calvinist correctly makes one distinction in salvation that most Arminians seem to miss, e.g. that between imputed and literal righteousness. Whom did Jesus call "Satan" in the gospels? Jesus teaches in metaphor...

The day will come when you will give humble thanks to God that the satan is saved, and this because the church can't face the truth of who Satan is. Hint: when any human being looks in the mirror, he/she is looking at satan. To the contrary, some weeks ago here I posted the same challenge to...

Not addressed to me, but I'm happy to answer: No...I expect a Holy God to cleanse every human being of the spiritual disease which causes unrepentance, disbelief and rejection of His Son and plan of salvation--as well as of all other sins. Is it more logical and merciful to force an eternal...

Translation: "Careful exegesis" means parroting eternal torment doctrine as though it was actually truth and all you say that doesn't agree with it is automatically heresy. I've heard plenty of traditional "careful exegesis" the last fifteen years on theology boards.

Oz, sunis....thanks for sharing your many opinions and typical circular reasoning (you guys are heretics because you don't believe our doctrinal interpretations!). Now maybe you should kick back and let the thread develop. Then sonis can read it so you'll at least understand the distinction...