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  1. JoeT

    Was Mary sinless?

    I didn't think you would find flaw. And what does that have to do with beans in China or the city of Berea? I'm not bound to bible alone, I used the Early Church Fathers to help explain and to show the Catholic view of Romans 3:23. I'm not sure I understand the complaint, seeking truth one...
  2. JoeT

    Was Mary sinless?

    We'll try again 1. You cited Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God". 2. You seemed credulous that "Mary remained free of sin given "all have sinned." 3. I contend that your understanding of Romans 3:23 is in error holding that "all" means the entirety of humanity sins...
  3. JoeT

    Was Mary sinless?

    Let's start with your proposition that "For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God". [Romans 3:23]. Given that Christ is One Person, one Holy hypostasis, with two inseparable natures, God and man, we can't separate His Divinity from His Humanity. what we say of the Divine is True of...
  4. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    You're shooting yourself in the foot, the Muratorian Fragment states "yet it is clearly recognizable that there is one Church spread throughout the whole extent of the earth." One Divine Truth, One Divine Church. JoeT
  5. JoeT

    Was Mary sinless?

    I think what you described is Monophysitism, a heresy settled between 325 to 787, One Person, One hypostasis (underlying substance), and One soul. Catholicism holds that a Christology where Christ is One Person, One hypostasis and two natures, Divine and human, again without mixing, mingling...
  6. JoeT

    Was Mary sinless?

    The verse Romans 3:23, if taken as inclusive of every person, "all", it must by definition include Christ, He is man, albeit a type of Adam prior to the fall, man nevertheless. "All" is not the thrust of Romans 3:23 rather those present, both gentile and Jew, all. To be "just" the will is...
  7. JoeT

    Was Mary sinless?

    The problem with this line of thought is that Jesus Christ is made a sinner needing justification. All men are born with the stain of original sin. Christ is both God and man whose natures were inseparably joined without mixing, mingling or confusion. If not made, but born of woman then that...
  8. JoeT

    If you believe the Blessed Virgin Mary sinned...

    The priest wasn't being bold at all. There is a reason for the Marian doctrine of assumption. To put crudely, Catholics hold that if the Mother of God isn't risen by virtue of her motherhood there can be little hope anyone else. It also implies that you do not believe the soul of Jesus Christ is...
  9. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    Are we to assume Jesus Christ left this world without first writing in a Book yet holds a verbatim test at the gates to heaven? How does it follow that St. Paul addressed Timothy, a priest and bishop, to teach all who are incapable of reading due to ignorance or intellectual capacity? Are such...
  10. JoeT

    If you believe the Blessed Virgin Mary sinned...

    I don't see why not. JoeT
  11. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    I've followed the last few pages and when I came to this it seems to be forming an argument that hasn't been under discussion. Nevertheless, I would agree that there is no one who is infallible in the sense of being impeccable. The First Vatican Council declared the long held doctrine that in...
  12. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    Then I suppose this really doesn't mean "be perfect". Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect [Matthew 5:48] JoeT
  13. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    If "all" is to be the whole number then all mankind is both guilty and deserving of punishment due to Adam's, including Christ. But we know that St. Paul was talking to Jews and gentiles present at his preaching , all Jews and all gentiles. St. Paul was using a exaggerated form of speech so...
  14. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    If this statement is true, because covering sin does not make it righteous. just saying "Lord, Lord" may not do the trick [Matthew 7:21] except that you do the will of God. . JoeT
  15. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    Well Ok, Justification for the non-Catholic is what the sinner declares God saves, "not guilty". One is not obliged repent and rectify the will. JoeT
  16. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    Even a human child does not receive the flesh of His father. The mothers ovum, for the purposes here the unfertilized female egg, is the flesh of the women. It takes the the spark of life to make it a zygote (fertilized egg). Except for chromosomes, nothing of the father remains with the child...
  17. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    In a manner of speaking, the Protestant justification is declarative. One simply says he is justified and somehow, as children of wrath, sin is declared as righteous. How does that work? In the Reformed doctrine we find a different justification. Justification is necessary for sanctity and...
  18. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    It depends on how you describe Justice or justification. In Protestantism, justification is by faith alone devoid of charity, an uninformed faith (fides informis). Whereas Catholicism is based on faith formed in charity (fides formata). Here justification is the rectitude of the will to that of...
  19. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    Catholics have Sacred Tradition out of which comes Sacred Scripture. JoeT
  20. JoeT

    Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

    Uhm, you can be sinless in the founts of the Church; with out regard to the state of your parents. Mary was made right with God, just, with God; Justified. You can receive justification with God in the baptism in the founts of the Church. Mary received Justification at her conception, you...