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  1. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    Look at Rom 9:32 - "Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone... " The ones rejected are not rejected because God predetermined it ... but because they did not pursue it by faith. Faith is the condition for acceptance...
  2. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created...
  3. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    The sin is the dung, not grace, and not justice. Does God set sin before man and say "choose life or sin?" No. God sets before man life (provision) and death (justice). Which is the say God sets before man justice (Jesus is punished on our behalf) and justice (you take your own punishment)...
  4. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    I posted this to my social media: ... I am not kidding, this is the Calvinist's response to my argument: "Your illustration is a perfect example of how you misrepresent Reformed soteriology. If a reformed person were to make such an illustration, it would be more like this.... If I set an...
  5. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    Then you can't intelligently or accurately characterize it. I quoted John Calvin's words. That is what Calvinism is - the systematic theology of John Calvin. I strong-maned your argument and then countered it. It wasn't that I didn't bother to understand it... I understood it and rejected...
  6. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    Righteousness = life Rom 8:10 NASB95 - 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Grace was first extended to Abraham and his descendants. Rom 4:16-18 NASB95 - 16 For this reason [it is] by faith, in order that [it may...
  7. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    It may be just as rare to find Calvinists who properly represent Calvinism. Take this quote from John Calvin's Institutes for the Christian Religion (2207) and compare it to Reformed Theology: "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he...
  8. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    This was certainly a rhetorical question by God meant to cause Adam to think about the answer. God obviously knew what had happened. I've heard some say that man was "clothed in light" at creation and that light disappeared showing that he was naked... but I don't see that in scripture. I'm...
  9. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    This is an interesting question. Heb 10:1-3 NASB95 - 1 For the Law, since it has [only] a shadow of the good things to come [and] not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they...
  10. Gup20

    Free Will challenge

    Deu 30:1, 15, 19 NASB95 - 1 "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call [them] to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you, ... 15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and...
  11. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    I look at this as the same as "imputed." We are "imputed" righteous through Christ and in Adam, many (who had not sinned according to God's command not to eat from the fruit of the tree) were imputed as sinners. When the law came, it demonstrated that was just and applied sin individually, not...
  12. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    Rom 5:12, 14, 16, 20 NASB95 - 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned ... 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of...
  13. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    This is like saying Moses had nothing to do with The Law. While I agree that both the Abrahamic covenant and The Law of Moses were from God, they came through human beings and are promises TO human beings and affect more than just the original human recipients of their respective covenants...
  14. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    Salvation is not conditional on man... that part is secured. All of the elect will be saved. It is done. Qualifying as a descendant of Abraham and therefore being in the group known as "the elect" is based on man's choice - a choice God commanded man to make. No, faith is what qualifies them...
  15. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    From Marriam Webster's dictionary: ADOPT: : to take (someone or something) by choice into a relationship They adopted Canada as their home. : such as a : to take (a child born to other parents) voluntarily as one's own child especially in compliance with formal legal procedures
  16. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    The text says those who have faith in Jesus Christ are considered the sons of Abraham. Do you deny this is what the text says?
  17. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    This is so easily countered: Galatians 3:7 (NASB95) Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. Romans 4:11 (NASB95) and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the...
  18. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    Yes, Jesus’ sacrifice is available to some who will ultimately choose death. Many are commanded to make the choice, and Jesus’ sacrifice is available to many who will choose to reject it. Do you acknowledge that there are some who are called who will not be chosen (Matt 22:14)? Do you...
  19. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    It’s not evasion. We were discussing who chooses - does God choose who will be saved or does man choose for himself. Deuteronomy 30 is the Bible’s greatest description of the choice God commands us to make. God chose the group, but each person as an individual is commanded by God to choose...
  20. Gup20

    What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

    1Ti 2:13, 15 NASB95 - 13 For it was Adam who was first created, [and] then Eve. ... 15 But [women] will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. Look at the context. The example given is a marriage relationship (Adam and...