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  1. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    No, what I actually asked for in the early posts is a well-reasoned, intelligent critique. And I haven't received it in this thread. Criticism based on literalist dogma is insufficient to properly judge a competing system because, as was carefully explained in previous posts, the Standard...
  2. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    The sad thing is, the ideas are not difficult to grasp. You are placing yourself and others here in a pretty low category. So be it. Finis
  3. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    What I think you mean is that you don’t understand the methodology by which the metaphysic presented is compatible with—and thus provides a reasonable account of--the destruction passages in the Bible in the allegorical context defended. Rather than get into a lengthy text-proofing battle about...
  4. BarWi

    Does forgiveness imply no consequences? Also, does God punish us while we live on Earth?

    Not sure what you mean by the above. Care to elaborate?
  5. BarWi

    The problem of evil

    As requested I read those posts. Responses below are to what I feel to be their salient points. I pointed out that if the evil produced by the will of humans was in God’s plan to serve a greater good, then He would have no culpability in creating humans who have the ability to create evil...
  6. BarWi

    Does forgiveness imply no consequences? Also, does God punish us while we live on Earth?

    I think the Bible can be interpreted that Jesus died for our sins so that when we kill ourselves [spiritually] with our sin, He resurrects us. Thus, we both suffer the consequences for purposeful sin but are saved from the death that sin brings upon us. This teaching is "hidden" in plain sight...
  7. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    Simple concept: God is only good. Humans injected badness into creation. For the creation to be brought to an “all in all” state either God must degrade to ‘less than good’ or the creation must be brought to ‘wholly good’ in order to be one with God qualitatively, and thus “all in all”. I...
  8. BarWi

    The problem of evil

    Yes, I get this but don't see that God granting one an ability to create evil and warning against it makes God culpable. This is especially true if the evil created by man is used by God for a good, i.e., by using it to cleanse souls. I believe the evil we produce "kills" us spiritually and...
  9. BarWi

    The problem of evil

    Lots of questions, to your statement, I don't see it follows from the fact that God created man with the ability to chose good or evil freely that the creation of this ability makes God implicit or culpable in evil's creation since He instructed them in how to avoid it [don't eat from the tree]...
  10. BarWi

    The problem of evil

    Interesting theology your wife has. Mine is similar, though I don't approach it from the idea that God "can't" produce evil. Not saying He does, and your wife's position certainly deserves exploration, just noting that alternatively it may be that God could create evil if He did so knowing...
  11. BarWi

    Is God a punishing God?

    Excellent post, well put!
  12. BarWi

    Holy Spirit false teachings?

    I have no idea what the first part of your post is saying, though it seems to be directed to me...?? Sorry if it was not clear. I assumed from your first post that when I said "us", I meant Charismatics vs most of you here on this thread. IOW this thread simply brings up the 'haves' and 'have...
  13. BarWi

    Holy Spirit false teachings?

    First off Hillsage, who are you to demand I announce my faith to you? I have no idea what the first part of your post is saying, though it seems to be directed to me...?? Second, I told of my experience. If you are a Pentecostal and are offended by my post, that's the way the cookie crumbles...
  14. BarWi

    Is God a punishing God?

    I don't pretend to speak for Norman70 but will offer some food for thought to your questions. 1. Do you not believe God is a punishing God because you do not believe the literal parts of the Bible? Many of the literal parts of the Bible can and should be interpreted metaphorically. (Using terms...
  15. BarWi

    Holy Spirit false teachings?

    I was very interested in the pentacostal movement in the 70s but after 2-3 years of trying different churches noticed that the pentacostal folks tended to look down their noses at non-pentacostals as 'less spiritual' than they. That was the end of our relationship, the fruit wasn't what I...
  16. BarWi

    Is God a punishing God?

    I agree, God does not punish. His loving cleansing of the human spirit feels like--and is thus appropriately referred to as--wrath, but the fire that burns away the dross in human spirit feels thus [like fire; affliction] to us. Wrath is just tough love. I've come to the conclusion that God...
  17. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    Maybe we're needlessly talking past each other. What is destroyed completely is not a substance but a quality in essence: falsity. God is Truth. Nothing false can coexist with Him (in His direct presence). Virtually all Christians recognize that not all is destroyed in the destruction...
  18. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    Pneuma3, you show a remarkable grasp of both sides of what is being discussed here. I say remarkable because i can count on the fingers of one hand folks who understood the allegoric patterning presented in previous posts in the last 10-15 years I've tried discussing this.
  19. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    I use terms like "jerky dance moves" to refer to the nature of literalist arguments--ad infinitum, ad nauseam arguments about the nuances of word meanings, the constant text-proofing and poring over minutia in efforts to disprove those of others, etc. that pour into personal discussions and...
  20. BarWi

    Symbolic Biblical Universalism

    In disagreeing you show the weakness of the literalist universalist position, my friend. The strength of symbolic Universalism lies in its ability to reconcile without the 'jerky dance moves' of literalism the truths of eternal hell and annihilationism. Yes, I assume "annihilate out of...