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The futurist camp includes both dispensational and classic premillennialists' eschatology. I do believe that's contained in the title, the "futurist's camp!" The tribulation is in the future in the premillennial futurist's camp. From there they go their separate ways!

And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1 Peter 4:18)

People who are historic premillennialists should know what dispensational pre-trib means. I shouldn't have to define it for them, and that's who I'm addressing. You're trying to be funny, to say the least.

I do believe I qualified my intent concerning the thread. The point was just to challenge those who claim historic premillennialism that the paradigm does not allow for the distinction between Israel and the church, which is the sine qua non of dispensationalism. It also doesn't allow for pre-trib.

I do believe I qualified my intent concerning the thread. The point was just to challenge those who claim historic premillennialism that the paradigm does not allow for the distinction between Israel and the church, which is the sine qua non of dispensationalism. It also doesn't allow for...

Actually, few ever engage my contentions or refute my work. They merely parrot their dogma, which forces me to refute theirs. It's called side-stepping. I got tired of the games.

Again, does any one want to defend they can be a historic premillennialist and hold the contradictory distinction between Israel and the Church? True historic Premillennialists believe the Church is the Israel of God, the good seed scattered in Christ's parable.

"Claiming historic premillennialism contradicts the belief of pre-trib." Does anyone care to dispute that?

I don’t believe a historic premillennialist can maintain different destinies for the church and Israel and claim to be a non-dispensationalist futurist. Any takers?

Premillennialists are viewed as falling under two categories: historic and dispensational premillennialism. While historicists are more often premillennialists, there are some exceptions. This thread explores the difference between the two futurist views of historic and dispensational...

Right, and Christ will be King over both houses when God takes “the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land,” in verse 21. Ezekiel 37 supports my interpretation. Christ did not become King over the...

You're still trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole. Isaiah 11 prophecies, The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim. (Isaiah 11:13) Israel cannot live safely and securely so long...

You don’t even read my posts, Douglas; that’s pretty small. I already destroyed your point here by citing Isaiah 11, which proves God unites Judah and Ephriam at the time he “smites the earth and the wicked,” which is at his second advent, and parallels Revelation 19:11-21, And there shall come...

I admit, Doug, that I can’t change a hardened mind like those entrenched in the folly of futurism; only God can do that. Dispensational futurists believe that God rewards those whom he has hardened. I read the opposite in the scripture; God rewards those he justifies. The notion that God...

Like I said, you might want to stop focusing on any seven year reference and joining it with the seventieth week of Daniel, suppressing the context. God tells Ezekiel to prophesy to Gog and say, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know...

The prophets aren’t given the complete picture, but only part. That is why we must study all the prophets to get the full picture. Ezekiel is given part of what happens after the 1000 years, and John is given more. Otherwise, we get the foolish notion that there are two Gog and Magog events...

I figured you would double down on your misrepresentations. John draws from Ezekiel 38-39 in Revelation 20 for those with eyes that see. There are not two Gog and Magog events, as in your misrepresentation. You're hyper about finding seven years anywhere in the Bible to shore up your fallacies...

Really, concerning the little horn Daneil prophecies, “I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.” (Daniel 7:11-12)...

And look, the "seven years" of famine in Genesis 41:27 also provides the framework for end-time events! How absurd. Have you not eyes to read the narrative of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel, which runs parallel to the expiration of the thousand years, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan...

According to the NT, Christ was crucified outside of Jerusalem to signify he died for the world, not just for the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him...