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  1. Saint Steven

    If Adam wasn't the first man, how does that affect The Fall and The Atonement?

    A fair number of Christians have opted for a more scientific view of origins. Evolution, as apposed to Creationism. (basically) Both sides have good arguments to support their position. I find myself stuck in the middle somewhere. I see plenty of evidence for intelligent design in creation...
  2. Saint Steven

    Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)

    Obviously, we want both. But I made a statement in another topic that being led by the Spirit is superior to being led by the Word. Let's discuss. (play nice kids) Thanks. So, I wanted to flesh that out a bit. Here's the quote below. Post #60. Source: What is a successful (good) creation for...
  3. Saint Steven

    How do you get from, "I'm a Christian", to a gospel presentation? (think tank)

    Okay, picking up from the "What should we call ourselves...?" topic. Now what? We want to share the gospel with those in our sphere of influence. (for whom we are most responsible, I suppose) How do we proceed from, "I'm a Christian."? I suppose, even the statement, "I'm a Christian." will...
  4. Saint Steven

    Why haven't you left the church? - And why I haven't.

    There was a time when I was rather troubled by Christians I met online that weren't attending a church. I had been raised in the church, and had attended most of my life. Except for a few years when I was a young adult. So, why a Christian wouldn't attend church was a mystery to me. Weren't...
  5. Saint Steven

    What should we call ourselves? "Christian", or "Christ follower"? Or... ???

    The title "Christian" seems to carry with it many bad connotations. Many have abandoned the title preferring "Christ follower". I'm not sure I am totally comfortable with "Christ follower" either. Because... Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. - 1 John 2:6 NIV Which means...
  6. Saint Steven

    ECT as the uncompleted story of humankind - the plan to fail?

    Eternal conscious torment (ECT) Should this be the end of the vast majority of humankind? It seems a catastrophic failure in planning. Or a plan gone terribly wrong. Who should we blame? Anyone who has read the Bible knows that God loves a good story. - The Israelites cross the Red Sea on dry...
  7. Saint Steven

    King of the hill Kristianity - Who R U edifying?

    Kontend for the faith? Build up, or Knock down? 1 Thessalonians 5:11 NIV Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ R U kontent with kontentius Kristianity? B a Barnabas instead. Acts 4:36...
  8. Saint Steven

    Undercurrents in the church: The ever-widening gap

    Undercurrents in the church: The ever-widening gap between the institution and laity. Like a sofa; one size fits all. Or so it would seem. Many "parishioners" are finding their own way spiritually in a church that is stuck on "old time religion". I'm a Christian Universalist. There are no...
  9. Saint Steven

    What is biblical truth when there is no consensus?

    Some present their views as if they themselves are an authority on biblical interpretation. Worst case, they attempt to end the discussion by claiming your argument is not with them. Basically, playing the "God card". Do we leave no room for the interpretations brought by others? Showing...
  10. Saint Steven

    Is the threat of hell spiritual extortion?

    We read a lot here about the free-will choice to follow Jesus. And there is healthy debate about how that may come about, or what may be required. But when the threat of hell is included, it no longer exists as a free-will decision. Now we are dealing with extortion, an "or else" situation...
  11. Saint Steven

    If free-will is an uninformed choice, what about consequences?

    What consequences are appropriate if our free-will choices are uninformed? Like Adam and Eve, we have no idea what death is like, or the afterlife. If our decision to follow Christ is based on acquiring a desirable afterlife for ourselves, as opposed to being incinerated for all eternity...
  12. Saint Steven

    Was "the Word" Jesus before He/It became flesh?

    The Word became flesh... It seems we are too quick to conclude that Jesus WAS the Word before He/It became flesh. Just to be clear, I am a Trinitarian. I am not questioning the Trinity in this topic. What I want to discuss is the "mechanics", for lack of a better term. John 1:14 NIV The Word...
  13. Saint Steven

    Is free-will ever really an informed choice? IDK

    Isn't a free-will choice like a shot in the dark? Only God knows the end from the beginning of a thing. How could we ever hope to make a right decision based on our human abilities to do so? I know, I know... that's why we follow the teachings of the Bible. It's already figured out for us...
  14. Saint Steven

    What became of "unconditional" love?

    Been quite some time since I have heard anyone discuss, or even refer to it. Discussions of conditions for God's love is all the rage; no mention of unconditional love lately. Currently out of fashion? Differentiating agape' from phileo and eros was once important gospel discussion. Do we...
  15. Saint Steven

    Is Revenge a Sin?

    Another example of an apparent double standard. Romans 12:19 NIV Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ How could God's "wrath" be revenge, if...
  16. Saint Steven

    Does God operate at a lower standard of morality/ethics than he requires of us?

    The obvious answer is no. But I suppose that depends on who you ask. Of course, it would be unusual for someone to state it as bluntly as I have, but the inference is epidemic. IMHO My favorite example is what Jesus taught us about godly behavior toward our enemies. See Matthew 5:43-48 below...
  17. Saint Steven

    Is there salvation in obedience to Christian social mores and norms?

    How much of the expected social behavior in our Christian fellowships are social expectations with no spiritual or biblical basis? (those who disagree will come back with plenty of "biblical" basis, I suppose) I remember having a bit of culture shock in a church merger I was a part of. These...
  18. Saint Steven

    How ironclad is the "life begins at conception" doctrine?

    HELP !!!!!!!! Recent events, in the USA, have pushed the abortion rights issue back into the arena of politics. Individual states must decide on the issue after the Supreme Court overruling of Roe vs. Wade. Correct me if I did state that properly, thanks. My purpose is not to start a topic...
  19. Saint Steven

    The "If it's true it doesn't matter." claim about UR.

    Some of those who don't aspire to Universal Restoration (Ultimate Redemption, UR) shrug it off, saying, "If UR is true, it doesn't matter." The inference, of course, is that if eternal conscious torment (ECT) is true, it DOES matter. -- And I will have to say that I agree, though not for the...
  20. Saint Steven

    Did Jesus have a fallen (sin) nature?

    Did Jesus, being half human at conception, have a fallen (sin) nature? Some claim Mary was also the product of a virgin birth. But would that nullify our human and fallen nature? Jesus was tempted in every way we are. (yet he did not sin) But, what does that indicate about his nature?